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Weight-Weenieism

Old 02-10-24, 12:50 AM
  #126  
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18 lbs for $200 so, $11.11/lb. Cheaper than a NY steak per lb. A good climbing bike which almost gets me into the WW club.

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Old 02-10-24, 10:09 AM
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When you let air out of your tires to reduce rotational mass
(yes, a filled balloon weighs more than an empty one)
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Old 02-10-24, 10:49 AM
  #128  
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when :

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Old 02-10-24, 10:59 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
How do you folks who consider yourselves 'weight weinees' feel about the advent of hydraulic disc brakes? Just like that, the industry pretty much created a new standard that appears to go against the 'lighter is better' mantra that they emphasized for so many years.
Exactly. Disc brakes are not only heavier, they’re also ugly. Not to mention unnecessary. I’d stack my 7700 rim brakes against discs any day.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:23 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
Serious question here: It has been apparent and still is, based on some of the posts on this thread, that some folks will spend quite a bit of money to lose what amounts to ounces here and there to have a light bike. How do you folks who consider yourselves 'weight weinees' feel about the advent of hydraulic disc brakes? Just like that, the industry pretty much created a new standard that appears to go against the 'lighter is better' mantra that they emphasized for so many years.
Originally Posted by smd4
Exactly. Disc brakes are not only heavier, they’re also ugly. Not to mention unnecessary. I’d stack my 7700 rim brakes against discs any day.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:25 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Exactly. Disc brakes are not only heavier, they’re also ugly. Not to mention unnecessary. I’d stack my 7700 rim brakes against discs any day.
Fortunately, that's not a problem for me as I don't find disc brakes ugly. That's subjective, but braking performance is objectively better with disc brakes. Anything else is just tired old bs.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:28 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Fortunately, that's not a problem for me as I don't find disc brakes ugly. That's subjective, but braking performance is objectively better with disc brakes. Anything else is just tired old bs.
Bring your bike by the house, Pete. We’ll have a contest. Loser buys the beer.

And yes, disc brakes are ugly. Period.

Last edited by smd4; 02-10-24 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:35 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by t2p
when :

Likely more durable than Hollowtech.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:58 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Likely more durable than Hollowtech.
I'm pretty sure this is first generation hollowtech.
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Old 02-10-24, 12:15 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
Serious question here: It has been apparent and still is, based on some of the posts on this thread, that some folks will spend quite a bit of money to lose what amounts to ounces here and there to have a light bike. How do you folks who consider yourselves 'weight weinees' feel about the advent of hydraulic disc brakes? Just like that, the industry pretty much created a new standard that appears to go against the 'lighter is better' mantra that they emphasized for so many years.
IDK if I count, as I prefer lightweight as long as it doesn't compromise performance and/or come at extreme expense, but...I've got both the lightweight rim brake bike and a disc brake bike. When I grab a bike for a road ride, 9/10 times it's the disc brake bike. The slight loss of time on climbs is made up in braking performance on long descents, especially when the roads are wet.

According to Bike Calculator, my rim brake bike should be nearly 45 seconds faster on a local 1ish hour HC climb. However, the times skew unfairly towards my rim brake bike as it was a top of the line non-aero carbon frame from 10 years ago, when some of the lightest bikes were being built. In comparison, my disc brake bike is the lower-tiered grade of carbon and is a heavier endurance frame. If I compare like frames, the difference becomes almost nominal on the same climb.
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Old 02-10-24, 12:22 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Likely more durable than Hollowtech.
I like my Hollowtech. Right when it's starting to look ugly and beat, it starts to de-laminate and you get fresh cranks.

Luckily, I discovered the de-lamintation by testing it off the bike...not on the bike, like one of my friends did.
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Old 02-10-24, 12:37 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Exactly. Disc brakes are not only heavier, they’re also ugly. Not to mention unnecessary. I’d stack my 7700 rim brakes against discs any day.
How do those Dura Ace rim brakes work with 45mm tires, and how well do they cope with mud bogs?
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Old 02-10-24, 01:05 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
How do those Dura Ace rim brakes work with 45mm tires, and how well do they cope with mud bogs?
I have no idea, because l would never subject my bike to balloon tires or mud. Duh.

Last edited by smd4; 02-10-24 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 02-10-24, 01:31 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Thanks. Sometimes I can’t keep my acronyms straight. ADD. Acronym Deficit Disorder.
APPALLING

Acronym Production, Particularly At Lavish Level, Is Not Good.
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Old 02-10-24, 01:32 PM
  #140  
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If your BMI is ≤ $/gram, you are fine.
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Old 02-10-24, 01:36 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Bring your bike by the house, Pete. We’ll have a contest. Loser buys the beer.

And yes, disc brakes are ugly. Period.
I would be totally up for that if I lived anywhere near you.
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Old 02-10-24, 01:37 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
How do those Dura Ace rim brakes work with 45mm tires, and how well do they cope with mud bogs?
Originally Posted by smd4
I have no idea, because l would never subject my bike to balloon tires or mud. Duh.
You’ve missed the point — which is that you are treating your use-case and preference as universal.

Your blanket dismissal of disc brakes as “unnecessary” ignores the fact of MTBs and gravel bikes. And you also ignore the road riders who actually want to go fast (as opposed to meeting some subjective aesthetic standard) and hence run deep section cf rims -- which provide a larger performance advantage than a slightly lighter frame and which work better with disc brakes.

Again, you're confusing your own preferences with some universal standard of "best."

Last edited by Koyote; 02-10-24 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 02-10-24, 02:08 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
Serious question here: It has been apparent and still is, based on some of the posts on this thread, that some folks will spend quite a bit of money to lose what amounts to ounces here and there to have a light bike. How do you folks who consider yourselves 'weight weinees' feel about the advent of hydraulic disc brakes? Just like that, the industry pretty much created a new standard that appears to go against the 'lighter is better' mantra that they emphasized for so many years.
I don't consider myself a weight-weenie...I just don't see the point of carrying around more than is needed.

I view disc brakes as just another hurdle in the obstical course. Part of the challenge. I'm a 6 foot tall dude. The challenge in this case was to create a UCI illegal steel disk road bike in my size. I failed. My steel disc bike clocks in at 16 pounds (as ridden) +/- a bit depending on the state of the tire sealant.

Could I save a bit of weight with lighter tires & switching to the venerable SRAM 2x11 drivetrain? Probably. But I find SRAM grating to use and their front derailleurs (IMO) are garbage. I have the parts sitting on a shelf. I could do the "upgrade" for free if I wanted to. The loss of functionality/reliability just isn't worth any further trade off for what won't amount to enough needed to accomplish the goal. A practical steel disc bike under the 15lb limit. Disc brakes are just part of the challenge. I could move most of the stuff over to an Aethos if I moved the goalposts. But where's the fun in that?

When I commissioned the frame I specified it to accommodate a Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3 and that it can fit 42mm tires with fenders and a rack. I might retool it as an all-road gravel bike. That could be a fun project, too.

Last edited by base2; 02-10-24 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 02-10-24, 02:50 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Bring your bike by the house, Pete. We’ll have a contest.
Back up a certain distance from a cliff, charge headlong, and at a certain point, brake. Keep moving the braking point closer until a winner is apparent.

Sounds good to me.
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Old 02-10-24, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Again, you're confusing your own preferences with some universal standard of "best."
Pretty sure there is no confusion ... just a tired schtick.
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Old 02-10-24, 02:59 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Exactly. Disc brakes are not only heavier, they’re also ugly. Not to mention unnecessary. I’d stack my 7700 rim brakes against discs any day.
I'm not a weight weenie, so I had never thought about the weight difference. But you made me wonder so:

Pair of 7700 calipers : ~= 320 g
Pair of Ekar calipers: ~= 240 g

Stopping power? I have 7700 on my old Peugeot because when they were first sold they were leaps and bounds better than any single pivot brake. Compared to the Ekar disc? Not even close. Even in the dry. And I have never had a disc brake ice up or the cable freeze.

Looks are subjective. I think the Ekar look great. I think my Skeleton rim brakes look great. I think my 7700 look OK too, but I mean, come on! The Campagnolo stuff looks beautiful no matter what.

If I want to lower the weight on the discs I can get some Carbon Ti discs that are under 200 g for a pair. I suspect my Winspace wheels with a set of theoretical Carbon Ti disc would weigh less than an old set of aluminum rim wheels from the era of the 7700.
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Old 02-10-24, 03:34 PM
  #147  
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WW starts when weight is prioritized over other important parameters that negatively impact overall performance.

Usually, optimizing for lower weight results in reduced reliability. If a part fails during a race, the marginal gains due to lower weight are no help.

If you were asked to build the lightest bike possible, it really comes down to intended use.

Are you building a race day climbing bike for a light weight pro, or a cobble crusher for a monument contender?
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Old 02-10-24, 03:42 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Back up a certain distance from a cliff, charge headlong, and at a certain point, brake. Keep moving the braking point closer until a winner is apparent.

Sounds good to me.
HAHAHA! Oh man, that’s a good one!
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Old 02-10-24, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Again, you're confusing your own preferences with some universal standard of "best."
Why the hell would I ever want to consider any other bike or rider other than mine when expressing my opinions on brakes?
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Old 02-10-24, 03:51 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Bring your bike by the house, Pete. We’ll have a contest. Loser buys the beer.

And yes, disc brakes are ugly. Period.
I ride the 7700 and 105 discs all the time. Been riding the 7700 on the road for the past month, just took the 105s out today, steep hill climbs and rapid descents…

Not even in the same arena…

There is no discussion, the discs flat smoke the rim brakes.
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