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Disc brakes are great!

Old 02-13-24, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The First World bike industry ...
You need some new material -- your act is old and stale.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Seriously? $25 per year is going to push you over the top? When I was a paper boy in the early 70’s, that would be considered as inconsequential. We are past bordering on ridiculous
A pair is about $20 (or more, list price), so that is $40 a set. If you do that once a year, I agree it is inconsequential. I, for whatever stupid reason, go through FAR more.

It still isn't enough to put me off disc brakes, but it winds up costing considerably more than rim brakes. For a bike that cost me about $7K 10 years ago, it is noise on the signal, but it isn't completely insignificant.




The one on the top (and one other) aren't worn, but got contaminated on my daughter's bike. I sanded them down and they should have quite a bit of life in them yet.

Last edited by Polaris OBark; 02-13-24 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Is your disc brake better today? Yes of course it is. How about if you leave your bike in the shed for say 40 years? Will it still be OK? I have three bikes that are nearly 40 years old and their brakes are all working still.
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Because the fluids would have leaked out and probably made a mess on the floor.
You might now. I'm just saying one is designed to last the ages and the other is not. You've heard the phrase 'heirloom quality' right?
I bought both of my disc brake bikes while in my mid-50s...I'm not really worried about what kind of shape they'll be in when I'm in my 90s. But even if I were, couldn't I just replace the fluid?

Originally Posted by tomato coupe
For most of us, our fluids will be leaking out and making a mess on the floor in less than 40 years.
My prostate agrees with you.

Originally Posted by cyccommute
It’s generally implied in all of these arguments. When you make a comment like “In the last 5-6 years, I've been in two gravel races in which riders have broken their necks - literally - on such descents,” the implication is that rim brakes are dangerous and lead to bad bike handling.
I neither stated nor implied that those riders were on rim brakes or that rim brakes are dangerous; you may have inferred that, which would be your mistake, not mine. I stated that those incidents reinforced my concern with safe and strong braking power. If you cannot understand the difference between my statement and your confabulation, then I can't help you any further.

Originally Posted by cyccommute
I’ve had lots of comments from people in person along the line of “how can you ride on rim brakes? They are so dangerous.” And they usually add “I would never ride on anything but disc brakes.”
Again, you've not gotten such comments from me, and I've not seen any such comments on bf. Hence I'm not sure why you're bringing them up in this discussion - they're irrelevant, if you read the initial post. They just make you seem a bit defensive.

Last edited by Koyote; 02-13-24 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:48 PM
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I've filled at least 3 of those cups in 10 years (along with my wife and 3 kids, but 90% are mine.)
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Old 02-13-24, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Disc brakes cost more and the pads need to be replaced more frequently.
That's a vanishingly trivial amount of money to me, and I suspect to many others.

Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Until you buy a few dozen replacement pads over 10 years...
Whaaa? If you're going through that many disc brake pads, then yeah, you really DO need that much stopping power.

I've been riding discs on two of my bikes for a total of about 38k miles over the past several years. (7 yrs on one bike, 5 on the other.) I think I've replaced two rotors and perhaps 4-5 sets of pads, which is probably what...? A couple hundred bucks? I spent that much on a new pair of bibshorts that should arrive tomorrow.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
The 40 year shed storage test is a novel disc brake issue I haven’t seen previously 😂. I’m sure there will be other gems in this thread too.
It's obviously a non-issue. But even if I try to take it seriously, I still think it's a non-issue. I drove my last car 154k miles over 12 years and never touched the hydraulic brake system. I suspect a bike with hydraulic brakes would be just fine after forty years of storage.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:05 PM
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If it has mineral oil. DOT fluid is hygroscopic.

I did notice something odd on my bike. I brought the bike without the rear wheel in the house and put it on the trainer for awhile. Then I took it for an outdoor ride (after replacing the rear wheel, which was hung up in the garage). The front brake squealed, and the back one was as silent as ever. Eventually the front one quieted down, but it makes me think something in the air in the house contaminated the rotor.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
That's a vanishingly trivial amount of money to me, and I suspect to many others.



Whaaa? If you're going through that many disc brake pads, then yeah, you really DO need that much stopping power.

I've been riding discs on two of my bikes for a total of about 38k miles over the past several years. (7 yrs on one bike, 5 on the other.) I think I've replaced two rotors and perhaps 4-5 sets of pads, which is probably what...? A couple hundred bucks? I spent that much on a new pair of bibshorts that should arrive tomorrow.
I think I have to replace rotors once a year, and lately, the pads on my main bike 3 or 4 times a year (3 this last year as I didn't ride enough). I do have 2 wheel-sets, and my sense is my center-lock rotors last a bit longer. They have heat dissipation fins. Part of this is "bad technique" in the sense that as I have gotten more confident, the wear becomes a bit less rapid.

Part of this is because I grew up in suburban Chicago and never saw a significant hill before riding in the Coastal CA range. My normal local rides are > 100 ft/mi climbing. I descend like a clinically paranoid grandmother.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
If it has mineral oil. DOT fluid is hygroscopic.
Sure, mineral oil.

But what Mr. icemilkcoffee hasn't considered is that rim brake pads would probably dry out and be worthless after forty years in a shed. But again, it's irrelevant since his scenario is ridiculous.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
... My normal local rides are > 100 ft/mi climbing. I descend like a clinically paranoid grandmother.
...nttawwt
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Old 02-13-24, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
It's obviously a non-issue. But even if I try to take it seriously, I still think it's a non-issue. I drove my last car 154k miles over 12 years and never touched the hydraulic brake system. I suspect a bike with hydraulic brakes would be just fine after forty years of storage.
...you got 154k miles out of the original brake pads ? I that what you're saying ? I can't do that where I live.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...you got 154k miles out of the original brake pads ? I that what you're saying ? I can't do that where I live.
Yeah, and Sacrademento is flatter than a pony's tit.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Yeah, and Sacrademento is flatter than a pony's tit.
...in fairness, Koyote lives in the frozen North. There wasn't a lot of topography in MN when I lived there. But still, that's quite a feat, if true. I've changed out a lot of disc pads on cars, and if there's a way to do it without touching the hydraulic system, I'd love to hear about it. I will pass the tip along to my maintenance staff.
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Old 02-13-24, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...you got 154k miles out of the original brake pads ? I that what you're saying ? I can't do that where I live.
I never touched the hydraulic system. Never changed the fluid, never even opened the reservoir. But for what it’s worth, yes – – never changed the pads or the rotors either.

Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...in fairness, Koyote lives in the frozen North. There wasn't a lot of topography in MN when I lived there.
This is all incorrect. You must have me confused with someone else.
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Old 02-13-24, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The First World bike industry is in trouble. Post-pandemic inventory overhang and dropping sales. Competition from Asia for direct sales to customers, and new groupsets such as Sensah and LTWOO. Internet sales, on even expensive items such as bikes are becoming ubiquitous and accepted by customers.

What the First World bike industry needs to do:
  • Make bikes difficult to work on for a weekend warrior. Introduce complex proprietary tools for undertaking basic maintenance. Hydraulic discs and electronics are great because they lock most riders back to a shop for what used to be simple maintenance. Internal cable routing: a windfall! It looks kewl and saves 0.001 watts on the road, but it allows a shop to hand a $300 bill to a customer for a stem swap.

  • Introduce new transitory ‘features’ on bikes, like aero fins on 1950s cars. Like suspension elements on road bikes. Or discs, which are heavy, fussy and unnecessary.

  • Change over the fleet: Introduce different dimensional standards which will render the previous generations of bikes obsolete and useless. Like wheel sizes and widths and attachment standards. Plus different bottom bracket standards and cassette systems. Note the success of how the 26” MTB wheel standard was replaced by the 29-er through a rare coordinated and concerted effort by the entire First World bike industry. Then the 27.5” standard had to be introduced because the 29er was a mistake for many riders. Of course, the industry could never ever go back to 26”. Nope.

  • Introduce an integrated supply chain direct from manufacturer to retail customer. Buy up the independents and lock customers into one single brand, particularly for servicing, where the money actually is. There is no money in selling $300 hybrids, but there is profit in selling an expensive bike to a platinum card holder. Then, due to difficult to service proprietary parts, the weekend warrior is locked to you for frequent ‘servicing’ - forever. Basically, a subscription service.

  • In addition to changing the bike fleet over frequently by introducing new ‘standards’, also choke off the supply of replacement parts for bikes over 5 years old. Customer walks into a shop looking for a 10-speed derailleur… “This hasn’t been made in 10 years! We cannot source this. Let me show you some newer bikes!”

  • Hire a cadre of social media sycophants and influencers to rag on anyone or entity who challenges the above strategy.

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Old 02-13-24, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Which is not something the end user has to even think about.
Unless you have bikes that work perfectly fine with rim brakes.
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Old 02-13-24, 10:18 PM
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Who would have thought that this totally unique and unprecedented topic would degenerate?
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Old 02-13-24, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Because it was decided to run the front calipers behind the fork so when you brake, the disc and hence the hub is forced down. And out of traditional dropouts. Not entirely rational engineering. (Sophomore engineering students have the force mapping skills to see this. The bright ones got this by 10th grade on their own.)
Except the dropouts for front disc brakes aren't made that way. They've been engineered properly.
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Old 02-13-24, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
...

Disc brakes for most people are a major improvement. There are still many bicycles with rim brakes and 130mm rear hubs for those that don't need or want them....
Your opinion. My opinion is that the vast majority of bike riders, from the casual round the block rider, to the serious enthusiast who rides every day, even many if not most hobby racers are perfectly well served by rim brakes. I know I am, and I ride a lot and have for many decades.

Note, to avoid misunderstanding that runs rampant in these threads: I have nothing against disc brakes, and I'm absolutely sure they work better for some riders. No question. I do have two disc brake bikes - one hydraulic and one cable. Both work great, but no better than the rim-brake bike V brake bike that they replaced. Same goes for my wife. I would have gladly bought another rim brake bike for our gravel riding, but I never saw one new.
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Old 02-13-24, 11:01 PM
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Old 02-13-24, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Disc brakes cost more and the pads need to be replaced more frequently.
To be fair to discs, no. Some disc cost more. Pads last a long time. Personally, I’ve had discs for many years and I have yet to replace a pad set. I don’t even recall having to adjust the pads on any of my disc brake equipped bikes. But I don’t wear out pads on rim brakes either.
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Old 02-13-24, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...in fairness, Koyote lives in the frozen North. There wasn't a lot of topography in MN when I lived there. But still, that's quite a feat, if true. I've changed out a lot of disc pads on cars, and if there's a way to do it without touching the hydraulic system, I'd love to hear about it. I will pass the tip along to my maintenance staff.
Will you do mine? They want to charge me $400+ for replacing the pads, so I decided to drive without applying he brakes.
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Old 02-13-24, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I neither stated nor implied that those riders were on rim brakes or that rim brakes are dangerous; you may have inferred that, which would be your mistake, not mine. I stated that those incidents reinforced my concern with safe and strong braking power. If you cannot understand the difference between my statement and your confabulation, then I can't help you any further.
Let’s remember you are the one who brought up broken necks. Bit over the top, don’t you think?

Again, you've not gotten such comments from me, and I've not seen any such comments on bf. Hence I'm not sure why you're bringing them up in this discussion - they're irrelevant, if you read the initial post. They just make you seem a bit defensive.
No more defensive than you trying to justify disc brakes for your “safety”. Again, I have many bikes with discs. They work the same as the other bikes with rim brakes. I’m not any slower (nor faster) on downhills with one over the other. As mentioned before, one of my bikes even has disc front/rim rear. I don’t notice any difference in feel nor effectiveness nor power between the two. I have a direct comparison on that bike.

Here is an example of where that bike gets used and it was carrying an extra 40 lbs of gear.


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Old 02-13-24, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
To be fair to discs, no. Some disc cost more. Pads last a long time. Personally, I’ve had discs for many years and I have yet to replace a pad set. I don’t even recall having to adjust the pads on any of my disc brake equipped bikes. But I don’t wear out pads on rim brakes either.
I wore out a pair of Tektro pads on my Globe Live 3, and probably a front disk after about 5 years (they started getting noisy and when I replaced them, the pads were gone-daddy-gone with metal scraping metal.) I swapped the whole set out for Shimano XTR. Perfectly quiet for 8 years so far, longer levers and superior modulation too.
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Old 02-14-24, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The First World bike industry is in trouble. Post-pandemic inventory overhang and dropping sales. Competition from Asia for direct sales to customers, and new groupsets such as Sensah and LTWOO. Internet sales, on even expensive items such as bikes are becoming ubiquitous and accepted by customers.

What the First World bike industry needs to do:
  • Make bikes difficult to work on for a weekend warrior. Introduce complex proprietary tools for undertaking basic maintenance. Hydraulic discs and electronics are great because they lock most riders back to a shop for what used to be simple maintenance. Internal cable routing: a windfall! It looks kewl and saves 0.001 watts on the road, but it allows a shop to hand a $300 bill to a customer for a stem swap.

  • Introduce new transitory ‘features’ on bikes, like aero fins on 1950s cars. Like suspension elements on road bikes. Or discs, which are heavy, fussy and unnecessary.

  • Change over the fleet: Introduce different dimensional standards which will render the previous generations of bikes obsolete and useless. Like wheel sizes and widths and attachment standards. Plus different bottom bracket standards and cassette systems. Note the success of how the 26” MTB wheel standard was replaced by the 29-er through a rare coordinated and concerted effort by the entire First World bike industry. Then the 27.5” standard had to be introduced because the 29er was a mistake for many riders. Of course, the industry could never ever go back to 26”. Nope.

  • Introduce an integrated supply chain direct from manufacturer to retail customer. Buy up the independents and lock customers into one single brand, particularly for servicing, where the money actually is. There is no money in selling $300 hybrids, but there is profit in selling an expensive bike to a platinum card holder. Then, due to difficult to service proprietary parts, the weekend warrior is locked to you for frequent ‘servicing’ - forever. Basically, a subscription service.

  • In addition to changing the bike fleet over frequently by introducing new ‘standards’, also choke off the supply of replacement parts for bikes over 5 years old. Customer walks into a shop looking for a 10-speed derailleur… “This hasn’t been made in 10 years! We cannot source this. Let me show you some newer bikes!”

  • Hire a cadre of social media sycophants and influencers to rag on anyone or entity who challenges the above strategy.
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