If only there were some way to assess Crr (and CdA) with field tests on real roads.

(That said, measuring Crr is one of those things where you need to be careful with the measurements).

When you can measure a difference repeatedly over a consistent course I'd say you have a data point as an amatuer. Pros don't seem to care a ton about a half-pound here or there or many of the other things we duffers obsess over. For a group ride it's a lot more about your personal capability and where you are in the pack.

Light weight high priced bikes are of a concern to those that race. For the rest of us a fairly good quality bike will serve us just fine.

Agreed. Meanwhile people are discussing the value in saving 2 watts riding tubeless vs tube above you :D

Sometimes bland mediocrity is not quite enough, especially when it comes to our main hobbies and interests. There are thousands of riders out there who don’t race, but still enjoy riding high quality race bikes. It has nothing to do with what they “need”.

Yes, a new bike can be a lot more fun. If you are not racing, buy a bike that fits and is comfortable. That will really make a huge difference.

HEY! We agree on something! Never thought the day would come...

Sure. But when the latex tube picks up a goat head, it rapidly becomes much slower.

And vice-versa. I race plenty, and my main race bike has a steel frame, because I like steel. Though unlike some of this forum's "steel is real" crowd, I am not laboring under the illusion that it is somehow superior to other materials.

So you're purposely giving yourself a disadvantage? Like a handicap, I guess.

Where did I state that it's a disadvantage?

Lightweight, high-quality bikes might also be a concern for people who recognize and appreciate the subtle differences between mediocre, good, and great. I don't buy bikes that just serve utilitarian needs. I like bikes that excite me to want to ride them, and often ride them at the limits of my abilities. Lightweight, high-quality bikes serve my desires for the kind of bike I want to ride.

You didn't state it. You're right. I am assuming that you are such a fast racer that you need to give yourself a handicap to make it fair. My bad.

It's also okay to buy a bike that really excites you, and inspires you to want to ride it a lot. That bike can be a race bike - if that's what you like - even if you don't race it. It should also fit and be comfortable.

Why are you assuming Koyote's bike is a handicap? Are you familiar with the type of racing he does?

I already said I was assuming! Geeze!

If faster is the goal, learn to ride with your chin close to the stem, a flat back (or nearly), narrow bars, knees that nearly touch the top tube every stroke and a smooth spin. Aero on your body is even better than a little improvement at the wheel or aero carbon bars. ;)

Roll up on a vintage bike and ride like a pro - 'That's the ticket' !
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b20a2e0a06.jpg

I know. I'm asking why you're making that assumption?

When in doubt, ignore what was actually written and feign indignation.

Getting dropped from group rides has never made me feel cool.

If, not when.

He was trying to be clever. And failing, obviously.

On the Bike Forums, all roads lead to Steel and Vintage.

You said you don’t think steel is superior to other materials. So it’s either commensurate with other materials, or it’s inferior. Your only two choices.

So which is it? You have only mentioned that you’ve raced road and gravel, so we can start there.

You've gone from this...

...to this:

Which seems like a non-sequitur borne of a reading comprehension problem. Hint: those are not my 'only two choices.'

There’s a reason I added him to my iggy list a long time ago.

Unlike a broken clock, which is at least right twice a day, a broken record is broken all the time. He’s been repeating that mantra for forever and a day.

I can only hope to be as cantankerous as you when I reach your advanced years!

Oh? How old am I?

You posted late last year that you were 60. So either that or possibly 61.