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Why are Modern Bikes So Expensive?

Old 03-22-24, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
If you like to use simple capitalism where is the “Invisible Hand” the brings the market to equilibrium? There is no indication that these top tier bikes are bringing in substantial profit for anyone involved.
That's fair. The bike industry, in general, isn't a high-profit industry.

IMO, the "invisible hand" shows up in sales. While the top-end bikes sell, they aren't the majority of units, gross sales, or profit (based on my mediocre knowledge of the bike biz).
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Old 03-22-24, 04:27 PM
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Shimano Exsence Spinning Reel - Size 4000 $609.99
Shimano Poison Ultima Spinning Rod $879.99

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Old 03-22-24, 04:32 PM
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Fish are elitist. They won't bite for cheap gear. Duh.
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Old 03-22-24, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by t2p



1992

2.44 lbs - still considered fairly light ( I believe ? )
one the lightest bikes of its era
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Old 03-22-24, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
My question is-------------how long does it take some Chinese woman to wrap a cheap CF bike, and how long does it take another Chinese woman to wrap a $15,000 CF bike???
Hmm... As a Chinese woman, how about I answer that to you in pms.
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Old 03-22-24, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
Hmm... As a Chinese woman, how about I answer that to you in pms.
Speaking for myself, I would prefer to see ryda's ridiculousness get called out in public.
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Old 03-22-24, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Fish are elitist. They won't bite for cheap gear. Duh.
...thanks. I was imagining some scenario where people needed this sort of gear, because it's laterally stiff but vertically compliant.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...thanks. I was imagining some scenario where people needed this sort of gear, because it's laterally stiff but vertically compliant.
Well, of course. Additionally, the superior vibration damping of a high-quality CF rod provides a smoother presentation of the lure, which is more attractive to fish, increasing the bite rate.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:10 PM
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....it figures that I've been doing this wrong, too.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.
....it figures that I've been doing this wrong, too.
Probably not. I don’t know a damn thing about fishing.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...thanks. I was imagining some scenario where people needed this sort of gear, because it's laterally stiff but vertically compliant.
Need? What is this "need" ****? We're talking about BICYCLES FISHING!
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Old 03-22-24, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Probably not. I don’t know a damn thing about fishing.
As I understand it, it's all about preying on the gullibility of less intelligent species. This require spending thousands of dollars for a chance to obtain what can be bought at the store for $5 or 6/pound.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
If you like to use simple capitalism where is the “Invisible Hand” the brings the market to equilibrium? There is no indication that these top tier bikes are bringing in substantial profit for anyone involved.
Originally Posted by Eric F
IMO, the "invisible hand" shows up in sales. While the top-end bikes sell, they aren't the majority of units, gross sales, or profit (based on my mediocre knowledge of the bike biz).
As someone who has actually read The Wealth of Nations, I'm not sure what you guys are talking about with regard to the 'invisible hand.' If high-end bikes (or any other tier of bikes) are bringing extraordinary profits, then barring any artificial barriers to entry, new firms will enter the market and compete away those abnormally large profits. In other words, we would not expect to see huge profits for high-end bikes -- nor for other categories of bikes. Considering how the internet (and direct-to-consumer firms like Canyon) has intensified competition in the market, it wouldn't be surprising for profit rates to be comparable to those of other manufacturing companies.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
As someone who has actually read The Wealth of Nations, I'm not sure what you guys are talking about with regard to the 'invisible hand.' If high-end bikes (or any other tier of bikes) are bringing extraordinary profits, then barring any artificial barriers to entry, new firms will enter the market and compete away those abnormally large profits. In other words, we would not expect to see huge profits for high-end bikes -- nor for other categories of bikes. Considering how the internet (and direct-to-consumer firms like Canyon) has intensified competition in the market, it wouldn't be surprising for profit rates to be comparable to those of other manufacturing companies.
Excuse me, isn’t that what said! Not only did I read it, I understood it! In fact I could argue that there are numerous factors in play that cause the cycling industry profits to be lower than most comparable industries.
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Old 03-22-24, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Excuse me, isn’t that what said! Not only did I read it, I understood it! In fact I could argue that there are numerous factors in play that cause the cycling industry profits to be lower than most comparable industries.
If you understood it (and the rest of mainstream economic theory), then you will understand that - contrary to your assertion (which I already quoted), a lack of "substantial profit" actually indicates that the invisible hand is working and that a competitive market is at or near equilibrium. If, as you say, bike industry profits are actually lower than those in other comparable industries (comparable in terms of, say, risk, capitalization requirements, etc), then the market may not be at equilibrium -- or (as you again suggested), other things may be going on.
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Old 03-22-24, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Excuse me, isn’t that what said! Not only did I read it, I understood it! In fact I could argue that there are numerous factors in play that cause the cycling industry profits to be lower than most comparable industries.
Sounds like an interesting discussion.
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Old 03-22-24, 08:03 PM
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What about contemporary bicycles? Are those now just a legacy?
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Old 03-22-24, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by eric f
speaking for myself, i would prefer to see ryda's ridiculousness get called out in public.
poty
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Old 03-22-24, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
More factors go into the cost increases of products besides just inflation, including simple capitalism. If people will buy that bike for $15k (and they do), then Spec will sell it for $15k.
Of course and specialized should sell them at what the market dictates.
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Old 03-22-24, 08:32 PM
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Economic theory is so refined that the economy cyclically crashes ..... often to the surprise of economic theorists.

Bike profits are what they are because ... there is no "invisible hand." it is a metaphor derived after the fact to describe human behavior, but it is a generalization and it is based on random action .... or rather, incredibly complex motivation.

Like many observation-based generalizations, the "invisible hand" is generally close to applicable ... and sometimes not. Just as actuarial tables don't determine actions or outcomes but sometimes accurately predict them .....

Based on my limited understanding of economic fantas ... er, theory ... bikes cost as much as they do because people buy them.

All the people who won't accept that ..... cool with me.
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Old 03-22-24, 09:42 PM
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Porky disc brake bikes

The stock 2014 Trek Émonda SLR 10 weighed 4.65kg in a 56cm. How much does the current (disc) Emonda SLR weigh?

Pretty hard to compare bike weights anymore, since manufacturers don't want to post them. Pre-disc, low weight was a major selling point, as it should be in a performance road bike. Truth: nothing else matters more.

BTW: the arbitrary UCI 'weight limits' do not apply to me, or probably anyone else posting in this forum. So they are meaningless.
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Old 03-22-24, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
If that were true, then Specialized could make a rim brake version of the S-Works Aethos that weights under 12 lbs.
With the right selection of components, they totally could get down to 12 lbs.

Or even less that 12 lbs.

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Old 03-22-24, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The stock 2014 Trek Émonda SLR 10 weighed 4.65kg in a 56cm. How much does the current (disc) Emonda SLR weigh?

Pretty hard to compare bike weights anymore, since manufacturers don't want to post them. Pre-disc, low weight was a major selling point, as it should be in a performance road bike. Truth: nothing else matters more.

BTW: the arbitrary UCI 'weight limits' do not apply to me, or probably anyone else posting in this forum. So they are meaningless.
That bike has a maximum permissable weight limit of 200 pounds, or 90 kilos. Though you can color me impressed with SRAM Red 22 and Tune hubs/wheels being OEM equipment. The cost? £11,000 2014 pounds. So, £15,000 in 2024?

FWIW: Aero trumps weight in almost every conceivable situation with very few exceptions relating to hill climbing competitions.

What's the equivalent disc? Probably a Specialized S-Works Aethos Expert with it's 585 gram frame and a handy selection of weight-weenie parts. The kicker is the weight limit, tho...Any ol' fat sub-300lb tubby-tub can ride and be safe on a stock 13 pound Aethos with a comparable 2024 $/£/€ outlay.

You are comparing the extreme pointy end of the the industry. A sub-11 pound bike nobody can ride isn't much of a bike at all.
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Old 03-23-24, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by base2
FWIW: Aero trumps weight in almost every conceivable situation with very few exceptions relating to hill climbing competitions.
Nope - weight trumps everything. When riding in a pack, the weight penalty of a heavy bike, and especially heavy wheels will shed you off the back. Then you can be aero as a bullet, but you are not going to be able to reconnect.

When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw last night and eating a energy bar...
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Old 03-23-24, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Nope - weight trumps everything. When riding in a pack, the weight penalty of a heavy bike, and especially heavy wheels will shed you off the back. Then you can be aero as a bullet, but you are not going to be able to reconnect.

When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw last night and eating a energy bar...
Is this some game of "say the opposite of reality" or something like that? I recommend you revisit the stage 16 of the last year's tour de france.
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