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Why are Modern Bikes So Expensive?

Old 03-23-24, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Nope - weight trumps everything. When riding in a pack, the weight penalty of a heavy bike, and especially heavy wheels will shed you off the back. Then you can be aero as a bullet, but you are not going to be able to reconnect.

When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw last night and eating a energy bar...
This guy has to be a wind up merchant. Got to give him credit that he stays in character consistently 👏
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Old 03-23-24, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer

BTW: the arbitrary UCI 'weight limits' do not apply to me, or probably anyone else posting in this forum. So they are meaningless.
While this is true, I like the idea of riding a bike that conforms to all the UCI regulations. Minimum weight is just one element of a load of other performance and safety rules defining what we call a road racing bike. As it happens, 99.9% of road bikes naturally exceed 6.8 kg anyway. Only when entering non-UCI regulated hill climb races does weight come into any real focus as a major performance factor.

I actually rode in 2 closed-road UCI events last year where the UCI weight limit would have applied, had I been competitive 😂
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Old 03-23-24, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Nope - weight trumps everything. When riding in a pack, the weight penalty of a heavy bike, and especially heavy wheels will shed you off the back. Then you can be aero as a bullet, but you are not going to be able to reconnect.

When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw last night and eating a energy bar...
Larry?
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Old 03-23-24, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Nope - weight trumps everything. When riding in a pack, the weight penalty of a heavy bike, and especially heavy wheels will shed you off the back. Then you can be aero as a bullet, but you are not going to be able to reconnect.

When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw last night and eating a energy bar...
Why must weight supremacy be true, for you?

Sure aero might not matter all that much in the odd occasion of travelling in a dense pack because of pack dynamics and the tendency to bring the air along too so the net effect is all person's present are drafting eachother to the benefit of all. But, what about all the time a rider spends riding solo? It doesn't matter there either? You have a history of making it sound that way.

There are other aspects of pack dynamics, too. Like the tendency for the socially burdensome to get dropped for reasons not related to rim weight. What is your time riding solo v/s dense pack riding ratio?

You are seriously telling me (and the world) that drag coefficients just don't matter? That's amazing because because it literally means airplanes, bicycles, rocket ships, bullet trains, and cars could be shaped like barn doors, and it just wouldn't matter. Judging by the effort of the worlds engineers, clearly they feel something there matters to the operation of their vehicle. If not the minimization of drag coefficients, then what? Is that something style? Artistic expression? Shameful attempts to drive up cost?

Please explain your assertion.

Last edited by base2; 03-23-24 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 03-23-24, 08:55 AM
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Assertions brings observations and very little "therefore".

That needs to be understood.
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Old 03-23-24, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw nonsense you read on Bike Forums last night ...
ftfy
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Old 03-23-24, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
1997, I bought my Ritchey for $2000, marked down from $3000 because it had 8 speed Dura Ace as 9 speed was coming out.

2007, I bought a 2006 Bianchi 928 Veloce for $1600, marked down from $2700 because it was last year's model.

2020, I bought a 2020 Canyon Endurace for $2400, no markdown at all.

So, the CF bike with the discs was actually the lowest MSRP of all, even after 23 years.
Sorry, but that's as much apples to oranges as any.

But let's look at the Ritchey for a moment. The Road Logic frame has changed very little over time (so getting closer to an apples to apples comparison) and claims a price of 1600-2300 depending on features. The current Dura Ace gruppo lists for over 3600. With modest parts to complete that bike, you would be around 6k for a complete bike. Googling inflation from 1997 to 2024, the adjusted prices of the two bikes are almost equal, suggesting that the cost of this bike has neither gone up nor down, at least not by much.

Still, that does fit your claim of "something better for the same money", so I see your point.
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Old 03-23-24, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
Sorry, but that's as much apples to oranges as any.

But let's look at the Ritchey for a moment. The Road Logic frame has changed very little over time (so getting closer to an apples to apples comparison) and claims a price of 1600-2300 depending on features. The current Dura Ace gruppo lists for over 3600. With modest parts to complete that bike, you would be around 6k for a complete bike. Googling inflation from 1997 to 2024, the adjusted prices of the two bikes are almost equal, suggesting that the cost of this bike has neither gone up nor down, at least not by much.

Still, that does fit your claim of "something better for the same money", so I see your point.
That's quite the journey for a single post.
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Old 03-23-24, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
That's quite the journey for a single post.
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Old 03-23-24, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Probably not. I don’t know a damn thing about fishing.
Originally Posted by genejockey
As I understand it, it's all about preying on the gullibility of less intelligent species. This require spending thousands of dollars for a chance to obtain what can be bought at the store for $5 or 6/pound.
...sell a man a fish at $6 per pound, he eats for only a day. Teach a man to fish, and he has an excuse to buy $100,000 bass boat, and equip it with a $15,000 Mercury 300 outboard.
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Old 03-24-24, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...sell a man a fish at $6 per pound, he eats for only a day. Teach a man to fish, and he has an excuse to buy $100,000 bass boat, and equip it with a $15,000 Mercury 300 outboard.
still cheaper than a divorce.
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Old 03-24-24, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Nope - weight trumps everything. When riding in a pack, the weight penalty of a heavy bike, and especially heavy wheels will shed you off the back. Then you can be aero as a bullet, but you are not going to be able to reconnect.

When you are sheltered in the pack, your super aero bike might save you a handful of watts, but then you're coasting along at 25 mph expending what? 100 watts total? Joking with your pals about the movie you saw last night and eating a energy bar...
Continuing to repeat the same wrong information multiple times doesn’t make it less wrong.

EDIT:
https://youtu.be/0QDnUkUaQfk?si=-CAJ9mFux6jzPFlx

Last edited by Eric F; 03-24-24 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 03-24-24, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Continuing to repeat the same wrong information multiple times doesn’t make it less wrong.
He’s not worth taking seriously and I suspect it’s all just a wind up anyway. But who knows 😂
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Old 03-25-24, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...sell a man a fish at $6 per pound, he eats for only a day. Teach a man to fish, and he has an excuse to buy $100,000 bass boat, and equip it with a $15,000 Mercury 300 outboard.
More like $30k for the outboard. And side scan/front scan sonar with 3 screens spread about the boat, GPS controlled trolling motors... all to catch a bass.

Fishing is like biking in terms of overspending and overdesign of equipment - and the justifications for buying the equipment are similar.

Yeti makes a 5 gallon bucket and it used to sell it for around $80. They invented a reason you need it - pre ice the fish before putting them into the cooler - coolers they sell for 5-8x that of a regular cooler. Pre icing the fish in the bucket makes the ice in the cooler last longer - but they claim the ice in the cooler will last 5+ days.

Basic filet knife. I worked on a fishing boat for about 5 years, filleted 10's of 1000's of fish - with a $15 knife. But the fishing community has you paying $2-300+ for a knife - because the advertisement and internet says its better.

Rods are x% more sensitive, lures catch x% more fish, reels make x% more drag or hold a little more line.

But, people buy the stuff, and that's all that matters.

Some people buy the stuff because they think they need it - some buy it because they simply want it.

Same with bikes.
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Old 03-25-24, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...sell a man a fish at $6 per pound, he eats for only a day. Teach a man to fish, and he has an excuse to buy $100,000 bass boat, and equip it with a $15,000 Mercury 300 outboard.
Or something like this. I pass monsters like this one on Rt. 95 heading south in the fall and north in the spring. I passed one with 5 225s on back a few years ago. Looked it up and it was over a million dollar boat/ship at the time. This one had 5 450Rs on back. It made me think of a Lefty Frizzell song.



Edit: I found their website.

https://hcbyachts.com/

Last edited by seypat; 03-25-24 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 03-25-24, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Or something like this. I pass monsters like this one on Rt. 95 heading south in the fall and north in the spring. I passed one with 5 225s on back a few years ago. Looked it up and it was over a million dollar boat/ship at the time. This one had 5 450Rs on back. It made me think of a Lefty Frizzell song.


Edit: I found their website.

https://hcbyachts.com/
Boat prices have gone completely bannnaananas over the past 4 years or so.

If you want to see something that makes that HBC look like a toy - check out Freeman boatworks. Insane. People pay for a place in line just to get one built, then they sell their build slots for more money as the date gets closer.

Toy's outpacing inflation is a thing.
My boat sold for 32k new in 2008. Inflation would have the same boat at 45-48k new now, but they list for 90k+.

I paid 17k for the boat, it was 2 years old and was barely used, about 50% off. Nowadays, you may pay more for a used boat than a new one because of the wait times for a new boat...

My boat is tired and needs to be replaced. Prices are high, even for old boats, so I thought about selling. But selling would be final for me - I would be out of boating forever as I'm completely priced out of the recreational small boat market.

Unless I was willing to do 20 year financing that is... and that is what's supporting the boat market.

I have to wonder how many people are financing bikes and for how long.
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Old 03-25-24, 10:51 AM
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The next question we need to spend a dozen pages discussing: "Why Are Expensive Bikes So Modern?"
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Old 03-25-24, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
The next question we need to spend a dozen pages discussing: "Why Are Expensive Bikes So Modern?"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/305345493588?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Ueb020apSxq&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=g2bxvx3GSou&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305345085663?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Ueb020apSxq&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=g2bxvx3GSou&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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Old 03-25-24, 11:20 AM
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$6000? Feh. That's Ultegra territory.
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Old 03-25-24, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
$6000? Feh. That's Ultegra territory.
This one isn't as old, but certainly ain't modern...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27629798124...mis&media=COPY
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Old 03-25-24, 11:25 AM
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Not all modern bikes are expensive. Only the few that I like are exorbitantly priced 😂.
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Old 03-25-24, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
This one isn't as old, but certainly ain't modern...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27629798124...mis&media=COPY
Ooooooo!

EDIT: The Eroica folks would disagree with out about the "certainly ain't modern" part.
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Old 03-25-24, 11:34 AM
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My vintage Spectrum was $2400 in 1984. The original owner had about $300 of additional accessories with it. I know this because he kept the receipts.

So that $2700 in 1984 is about $7800 today.

Performance doesn’t count because of technical advancement but “tier” wise, it’s damn close to what you could get with $7800 today.
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Old 03-26-24, 02:23 PM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
This one isn't as old, but certainly ain't modern...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27629798124...mis&media=COPY
Not modern yes , but entirely made in Italy with the highest degree of craftsmanship and campy record tranmission explain the heavy pricetag. C40 and C35 are much more desirable and collectible than some other carbon made frames. The frames were used successfully bei the Mapei team with Johan Museeuw back then.
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Old 03-26-24, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
$6000? Feh. That's Ultegra territory.
Anything that is nuovo record and new old stock or showroom condition regarding vintage colnago always has a significant pricetag. The price of the nuovo record spare parts alone is close to 4000$ but this type of bike is not for the people that love di 2, disc brakes and carbon frames. It is for the collector before all. A nice high end steel frame made in the US by a reknown framebuilder with high end tubing and ultegra will be ahead 6000$ unless you want something mass produced from the big brands you will find something within that budget.
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