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Technical questions for the retro grouches on here

Old 04-07-24, 02:44 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling
My first bike with a disk brake was a Schwinn Stingray, which was made before many people on this forum were born. But that didn’t mean it was good. I don’t mind seeing innovation creating solutions to problems, but lots of innovations are solutions to problems which don’t really exist. The science of marketing is convincing people to buy things they don’t really need and can’t really afford.

Rim brakes are popular with retro-grouches because they are simple, effective, lightweight, easy to maintain and adjust, don’t require bleeding, and the pads are very long lasting. They are inexpensive, easy to install and set up, and, depending on the levers you use, you can precisely adjust the modulation.

I have a couple of bikes with hydraulic disk brakes. I like how the brakes work, great stopping power and modulation, great in the rain, and they look cool (an important point to some people). However, installing and bleeding is a messy and often annoying job, and for bike newbs who aren’t handy with a wrench, and don’t have a bleeding kit, they are much harder to maintain than a mechanical rim brake system. Mechanical disk brakes aren’t much different than rim brakes when it comes to maintenance, but I don’t much like the “feel” of mechanical disk brakes.

Most people won’t ride a particular bike anywhere near as long as it takes rim brakes to wear out a rim. I’ve got a road bike which is running old-school (thin) Mavic Helium wheels, I’ve put more than 100k on this bike, and haven’t worn down the rims yet.
I have a pair of helium that I purchased as spare wheels with over 80k and like on yours, the rims aren't worn. I also have my first pair of mavic cosmic expert wheels from 1997 which have a few miles but the rims aren't worn.I totally agree with you hydraulic brakes.
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Old 04-07-24, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Well, itís at least the most common reason why someone doesnít feel the need to upgrade. Itís not the consumerís fault if the new thing has an unconvincing value proposition.
Agreed we can give the examples of shimano cable eating shifters and with dura ace and ultegra bonded cranks which previous models were forged. A friend of mine said "Old tech that works is good tech"
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Old 04-07-24, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by redshift1

Well it was tried....Buell I think.

Yes it was Buell and so did Harley Davidson
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Old 04-07-24, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by speyfitter
Sorry I didnít mean to offend the boomers in here.
So what's your point?
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Old 04-07-24, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
SRAM makes (made) a hydraulic rim brake.
Interesting. I was not aware that one had been one the market so recently.
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Old 04-07-24, 04:53 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
So what's your point?
I think he just wanted to stir the pot and couldnít come up with anything better than a DB vs. RB theme. The apology for offending and the boomer reference are dead giveaways. Sophomorically formulaic.

Last edited by indyfabz; 04-07-24 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 04-07-24, 08:37 AM
  #57  
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I hope you all realize that in a few years time, anyone who is not on an ebike will be a retrogrouch.
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Old 04-07-24, 08:38 AM
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Get ...... Off. ...... My ...... Lawn ! ! ! !
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Old 04-07-24, 08:48 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
As an occasional retrogrouch, I will move beyond the disc brake discussion, and say Technically that I cannot foresee:
1a. Using 13 cogs on a cassette,
1b. Neither a 10 cog nor one with 52 teeth.
2. I like tubes on my road bikes.
3. I prefer external cable routing
4. Custom, handmade frames are priceless
5. 40+mm road tires are for sissies (and maybe some self supported tourers).
6. If you can clear your handlebars, your mind will follow


I ride vintage & modern, downtube shifting/Ergo10/Di2, CF/Ti/Steel frames, tubular/clincher - just make the frame 60cm please, and the weather pleasant.


1959 or 2020 - or anything in between, doesnít really matter to me, just give it nice tires and wheels.

Custom handmade and internal cable routing. 1985


13 speed cassette with a 10 tooth cog (because I didnít want the 9) and greater than 40mm tires. No tubes.



10 tooth and 52 tooth in the same place!!




Whatís a tube?
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Old 04-07-24, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
Custom handmade and internal cable routing. 1985

Being from the area, I have seen a lot of Spectrum bikes in my day, but only one good looking one.
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Old 04-07-24, 11:17 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by speyfitter
I hope we can use this thread to query the retro grouch community on border issues pertaining to equipment, cycling performance, expectations, etc.

So here is my question/point of discussion:

If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?

I mean imagine if disc brakes were there first and then the idea of rim brakes came along? A brake that sacrifices the rim you say? Iím sticking with my tried and true sacrificial rotor to protect the wheel!
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Old 04-07-24, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by redshift1

Well it was tried....Buell I think.

That is not a rim brake, and it actually was made for a very good reason. With the rotor mounted on the rim, Erik was able to make a very lightweight wheel, since the "spokes" did not have to carry the load of braking. The majority of force went directly to the rim/tires, not the spokes. The lowered the unsprung weight, and lowered the gyroscopic action that works against turning inputs, making the bike much more "flickable."
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Old 04-07-24, 11:35 AM
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Wow, how novel, a discussion on rim vs disc brakes. Just curious, any of you guys hear about soaking your chains in wax as a form of chain lube?
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Old 04-07-24, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Wileyrat
Wow, how novel, a discussion on rim vs disc brakes. Just curious, any of you guys hear about soaking your chains in wax as a form of chain lube?
I have always wondered why it isnít more popular.
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Old 04-07-24, 12:33 PM
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@rosefarts = nice bikes, but Richey and Canfield go where I (almost) never ride. Spectrum, if you frequent it, qualifies as occasionally retrogrouchy.

Versatility to explore one's chosen territory is good. I have access to this beast that my son has moved on from, but had yet to remove from our garage. 3x10 moderates the cassette.


Last edited by Wildwood; 04-07-24 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 04-07-24, 12:39 PM
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Brakes are about stopping the bike. If/When you lock up the wheel, all your stopping ability comes down to a matter of how much of your tire is in contact with the ground. The one or two square inches (if that much) of tire rubber donít care what made the wheel/tire stop rotating. So, if your ďwhateverĒ brakes are properly adjusted, and can lock up the wheel, how is one system better than the other? That being said, I will agree that there are certain conditions where disc brakes would be more functional than rim brakesÖlike descending mountains in the rain, for example. But otherwise, stopping is stopping.

Dan
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Old 04-07-24, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Being from the area, I have seen a lot of Spectrum bikes in my day, but only one good looking one.
I found a place to get the white Dura Ace hoods, so pretty soon itís going to once again be wearing white (hoods, leather tape, and cables) like when it was new.
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Old 04-07-24, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
I hope you all realize that in a few years time, anyone who is not on an ebike will be a retrogrouch.
You can be retro without being a grouch.

Last edited by tomato coupe; 04-07-24 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 04-07-24, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by speyfitter
If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?
You know disc brakes are nothing new, right? Theyíve been around nearly 50 years, maybe longer.

Iím in the camp that says theyíre a solution in search of a problem. Iíd put my Dura Ace 7700s with compressionless housing and Swiss Stop pads against any disc brake.
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Old 04-07-24, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by speyfitter
I hope we can use this thread to query the retro grouch community on border issues pertaining to equipment, cycling performance, expectations, etc.

So here is my question/point of discussion:

If disc brakes had come before rim brakes, would RGs still love rim brakes as much as they do?

I mean imagine if disc brakes were there first and then the idea of rim brakes came along? A brake that sacrifices the rim you say? Iím sticking with my tried and true sacrificial rotor to protect the wheel!
If batteries existed before fire, would we still roast marshmallows when camping?
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Old 04-07-24, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
You can be retro without being a grouch.
That works in theory, but this thread is directed at "retro grouches" and whenever I say I like "insert old thing here" I am called a retro grouch and stopping "progress".
It's easier to accept the somewhat derogatory name and roll with the punches. This happens in most domains where tech and products have changed rapidly.
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Old 04-07-24, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
You can be retro without being a grouch.
And, of course, you can be a grouch without being retro.
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Old 04-07-24, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
Yet from 1983 until 2004/2006 when the disc brakes went mandatory on the mountain bikes, none really bothered about disc brakes on mountain bikes. XTR , TRP Vbrakes, and Avid Extreme Arch were the most performing Vbrakes ever made alongwith the XT 780 T Vbrakes. There was a time when you could order a MTB with v brake mounts and disc brake mounts, after 2006 it was not more possible.
I think thatís more an indication of how primitive mountain bikes were in those days. If we put away our rose-tinted glasses, they had poor geometry, poor damping, inadequate headset sizing, chain slapping, clunky drivetrains, stupid narrow bars and of course crappy brakes. There was really very little effort going into mountain bike design until well after the turn of the century.
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Old 04-07-24, 05:13 PM
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Yup ... mountain bikes went way deeper into development than road bikes .... They started out as old cruisers, basically followed road bike design, and suddenly got popular in a big way, so companies had to compete for customers ... and the R&D departments got busy. Meanwhile, the "gold standard" for road bikes was whatever had been popular a decade earlier ....

Interesting ... I was listening to the rambling reporters during the Paris-Roubais Femmes (I think) broadcast, and they mentioned some brand which had an onboard air system to inflate and deflate the tires to adjust to the cobbles and tarmac.

I haven't googled it but ....
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Old 04-07-24, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by slow rollin
That works in theory ...
It's not just a theory -- most cyclists that are into older bikes are not grouches.

Last edited by tomato coupe; 04-07-24 at 05:27 PM.
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