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Why do YOU love tubulars tires and can they work in an urban environment?

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Why do YOU love tubulars tires and can they work in an urban environment?

Old 06-21-24, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
I very much appreciate just what you mean. It's like a man who has a sport car like a Porsche 911SC and talks about going shopping with it . get a Volvo 144 also .But I may only wind up with one bike in the end , and I love this one. hopefully will continue too, once I set it up for myself find out what it's really like . ( I Just bought a pair of Vittoria Corsa Control Tub's But could only get 30's {not 28's } great price $53 hope it is not too wide ) Bringing things home from the farmers market on a bicycle is a great help and satisfaction you can enjoy the commute and the bicycle does all the carrying, I just can't have a collection of suitable bikes for each thing I want to do. I live in the city and can't afford space or money wise to have five bicycles like many of you, that have all the space living all over the United States.
I also, thought about just how desirable and rare this thing my be , and imagine it locked up at a sign post in New York City it should be interesting, I won't be leaving it there for long, I can tell you that much. I have never seen one in my life, not sure if I even saw a classic Cenelli either. there's some very expensive modern stuff around though ( I probably wouldn't want , unnecessary) much more expensive than mine. I don't know what it will be like carrying, meat ,apples, cans of hard cider, vegetables ,a book ( usually Classics ) a quart of milk , A gun, to protect myself and the bicycle, or rather, vice versa no...? just kidding. Cattle horns! on the handlebars?

Donít forget a spare. Tubulars are no more puncture resistant than an equivalent clincher. Also get a tubular repair kit so you can open the tubular repair the leak and sew it back together again, otherwise you will need to bin it after the first puncture.
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Old 06-22-24, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen
There are some very nice backpacks for cycling, not much more (some even less) than that seat rack thingie...
And farmers market... I walk my bike with me...
I grew up in The City, Brooklyn, Wi-yums-boig, and it was a kinder, gentler place then... and yet I still had my butt kicked frequently by hoods... and you only worried about switchblades & Zipguns...
so I know...
Cinelli, nice... GIOS ,
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Yeah I'd be willing to consider nice cycling backpack what do you recommend? Ortlieb out of Germany.? But that seat rack and a bag wouldn't be too much for my little sportster would it ?
Thanks for the great ,links . My baby Gios, doesn't even have all the decals, because it's too small for them, I think. But I think it could really be the right size for me once I get it truly adjusted meaning the right height of the seat and handlebars etc. I'd really like to get that rite , to get the most out of it. Should I figure out all the mathematical measurements and adjust there of ? I have to go to a specialist couldn't do it myself. When you look at the pictures in the links the men riding the bikes were quite a lot bigger than the bikes .when my father , about my size bought his motobecane in 1978) ( , in America people riding bikes that were on the large side.

Last edited by Alexthe; 06-22-24 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-22-24, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Donít forget a spare. Tubulars are no more puncture resistant than an equivalent clincher. Also get a tubular repair kit so you can open the tubular repair the leak and sew it back together again, otherwise you will need to bin it after the first puncture.
Which repair kit do you recommend? Unfortunately I only have two tires because they were the expensive ones, The Corsa 30's . I will be on the lookout for extras. Also might as well ask ,not sure whether to use glue or tape a very good tape would be easier but I'm open minded . I'm not afraid of working on the wheels.
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Old 06-22-24, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
Which repair kit do you recommend? Unfortunately I only have two tires because they were the expensive ones, The Corsa 30's . I will be on the lookout for extras. Also might as well ask ,not sure whether to use glue or tape a very good tape would be easier but I'm open minded . I'm not afraid of working on the wheels.
I am not current on tubular tech as I abandoned them the moment performance clinches came onto the scene in the late 70ís. Glue was where it was at back in the day. Riding a tubular in NYC without a spare is a recipe for a long walk in your cleats. Regarding the repair, it is challenging process that I never mastered to where the tire isn't all distorted when done. Google how its done.

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Old 06-22-24, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
Which repair kit do you recommend? Unfortunately I only have two tires because they were the expensive ones, The Corsa 30's . I will be on the lookout for extras. Also might as well ask ,not sure whether to use glue or tape a very good tape would be easier but I'm open minded . I'm not afraid of working on the wheels.
I've used Tufo tape and Jantex tape, both work fine but I prefer the Jantex (it's cheaper too).
Using tape it's very easy to get the tyre centred properly before you finally stick it down.
With Jantex lift the tyre as you pull the backing off otherwise the backing can break.

I leave a 3 inch gap in the tape opposite the valve - that's where I start removing the tyre if I need to.
A couple of weeks back I removed two Vittoria Rubino I had done 900 miles on, no issue - came off with just thumbs.

I would suggest also putting 1oz of sealant in each tyre.
I use Orange Seal:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Sealant_Test_-_Part_1_4147.html
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...rt_2_4155.html
.
I've never had a puncture in 3 years that the sealant didn't fix immediately - a couple of times I had to pull a shard out and spin the wheel.
So I don't both carrying a spare tyre or fixing kit.
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Old 06-22-24, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Donít forget a spare. Tubulars are no more puncture resistant than an equivalent clincher. Also get a tubular repair kit so you can open the tubular repair the leak and sew it back together again, otherwise you will need to bin it after the first puncture.
Actually, sealant is quite effective in tubulars.
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Old 06-22-24, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
Yeah I'd be willing to consider nice cycling backpack what do you recommend? Ortlieb out of Germany.? But that seat rack and a bag wouldn't be too much for my little sportster would it ?
Thanks for the great ,links . My baby Gios, doesn't even have all the decals, because it's too small for them, I think. But I think it could really be the right size for me once I get it truly adjusted meaning the right height of the seat and handlebars etc. I'd really like to get that rite , to get the most out of it. Should I figure out all the mathematical measurements and adjust there of ? I have to go to a specialist couldn't do it myself. When you look at the pictures in the links the men riding the bikes were quite a lot bigger than the bikes .when my father , about my size bought his motobecane in 1978) ( , in America people riding bikes that were on the large side.
Pack I used for over 12 yrs until my retirement was an Osprey Questa, which had a good sleeving for a laptop (or similar) and mulitple compartments for stuff, as well as elastic cord on the 'front' panel (back panel is usually designated that which sits on you rback...) I do wish it had web ladders. That one thing, these days very hard to find on a pack. There's the current fashion for uncomplicated front panel - having web ladders allows carrying of bulky or irregular shape objects... I insist on them for my backpacking packs (I do a lot of backpacking...).
My recommendation is to consider what you mostly will be carrying and decide on how much volume (pack size) you'll want. and then whittle down your choices. I do prefer Daypack sized packs which are mostly waterproof and don't need a rain cover. Rain cover fine for a pack where you're not going to do frequent entry while using (like larger overnight packs), but rain cover for a daypack is a hassle - IMO.
Never really have had Ortlieb on my radar - The current fashion for roll-top closure is just that - 'Fashion'. The NorthFace Broealis seems a nice pack - very similar to my Questa.. I see a lot here at UCSB, prolly sold in their bookstore/store.
Re: sewup patch kits - Velox is prolly the definitive and most available. For Glue I used Tubasti, but expect Velox might be OK. I had used the 3M glue for a while - my bud gave me a used tube ... but can;t remember the exact product name...
I would DEFINITELY be using the current tire sealants used for 'Tubeless', in my tubular, maybe 1 or 1.5 ounces ? depends on size of tire... would be a great thing to not have to tear off a flat tubular and then limp the rest of the way, worrying about the tire rolling off the rim on a turn... Putting on a spare requires 'limping' home because you can't 'glue' on a spare and expect it to hold at all for normal riding. With spare replacement you just put on the spare and hope there's enough grip (and the tire is snug on the rim).
Gluing a tire onto the rim, very sparing coat of glue on the rim - too much doesn't hold better and will squeeze out of the sides - a horror you don;t want to experience...
Glue tube nozzle emits a small stream, so I would go around rim and put run of glue, between rim edge and center along one side, then do the same for the other side... A little overlap in center is good thing.
A Fresh , New rim will require more glue than one used and already having some remainder on the rim.
That said, I would try to get as much old glue off, a used rim, as possible, makes for better, more even adherence of the tire.
Remembering riding sewups is a romantic thing - but the reality is filled with provisos ! I'm very glad to now be on good 'clinchers' !!!
Consider having 2 sets of wheels - tubulars for that 'Sunday' ride, and a 'daily rider' set of clinchers (with tan sidewall tires if you so desire the look) using some classic Low Flange looking hubs.
A lot here in...
Hope this helps...
Off to ride my 'modern' CF bike on CF wheels with some great clincher tires... LOL (I am going to bring down one of my old Colnagos tomorrow and do a 'Sunday Ride... Not sure I can remember how to use friction shifters... LOL!)
Ride On
Yuri - The Bike, the Path and Me make 3 = The Ride !

EDIT: Gluing on tire - let stand for extended period of time for the glue to adher/set after putting on the tire. I would usually let the wheel sit overnight, in a comfy warm spot, not a cold garage...
There are prolly good videos on Youtube for 'How to Glue on Tubular' - I'd watch all I can find - its very much a learned art, and is often very, very messy for Novices...

Last edited by cyclezen; 06-22-24 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 06-22-24, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
... By the way I weigh less than 120 pounds, I will be putting bags on the bicycle though .
120# - That was a missing piece of information.
Just go with what I recommended and ignore the rest of the posts.

Do NOT plan on patching. Just throw them away. Gluing should not be a big concern unless you are twitching to avoid things. That is to say, glue them, but you are not on the edge of anything.

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Old 06-22-24, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
...
Look at a cross-section of a clincher rim vs. a tubular rim.. Note the 2 hooks or downwards protrusion in the clincher rim required for holding the clincher tire on... Those 2 hooks are heavy (at the worst place on a bike), they are fragile (impacts), the sharp edges cause pinch flats, and the hooks are difficult and expensive to manufacture. Plus the clincher rim is susceptible to inflation pressures (blows the hooks apart), and the clincher rim contains dead air between the hooks. That is, about 20% of the total air volume in a clincher tire (between the hooks) does nothing in terms of protecting the rim from impacts.

The tubular rim profile is far superior, as it dispenses with all of the above problems at the expense of a few grams of glue. Look at the tubular rim in cross section: it is inherently lighter, stronger, does not cause pinch flats and is is a hell of a lot safer in a sudden blowout, as the tire stays put tight on the rim, as opposed to a flat clincher squirming around and eventually the tire or tube gets jammed in the brakes or the stays....
while i get the theory here that the hooks are "heavy" i wonder if in practice they add meaningful. looking around at the cross sections of modern carbon tubulars, hooked, and hookless rims of similar sizes the cross sectional area near the tire seems very, very similar. even accounting for inaccuracy of the published profiles, the tubular rims seem to have significantly thicker sections at the corners and the tire-rim interface, just like the hooked clincher rims do, where the vertical section adjacent the hooks is a primary part of the structure. published weights for rims which come in both types seem to be within 60g, a 25mm GP 5000 is 220 grams, the lightest 25mm tubular i see from vittoria or conti seems to be 280g. throw some sealant in there and the tubeless clinchers are probably 30mm heavier, all else with hubs and spokes etc equal. that kind of difference is seriously marginal. and of course you won't have pinch flats.





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Old 06-22-24, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
Which repair kit do you recommend? Unfortunately I only have two tires because they were the expensive ones, The Corsa 30's . I will be on the lookout for extras. Also might as well ask ,not sure whether to use glue or tape a very good tape would be easier but I'm open minded . I'm not afraid of working on the wheels.
Only two sewups simply doesn't work. You'll get a flat. No fellow cyclist or local bike shop is going to have one. Or anything to help you with except sealant which might or might not work depending on the cause and assuming you have replaceable valves. So you are walking home or taking the bus/train or calling someone or hitchhiking. Patching on the road is sometimes doable (PRACTICE THIS AT HOME FIRST!) but not always and it might well take you a half hour to see which. Buy one or more cheap Rallys and carry one. (Two for very long rides.) You will thank me.

You can read the stories of cyclists 100 years ago when they ran into tire issues on the road. Some of those travails for those unprepared were epic. Except sealant and an improvement in material quality (on the now quite expensive sewups) nothing has changed. Read my paragraph above and digest it. (Now, you are riding the "fix" that can be lent to riders of any 700c wheel to get them home. But, again with the exception of sealant and air, nobody out there can help you at all beyond fetching their car. Or lending you a wheel. When I raced 45 years ago, if I was on a popular route, I might see a fellow cyclist who might lend me a spare but those days are long gone.)

That 1st paragraph said, I have had very few flats with the Vittoria Corsas. (So far, 23-28c on 4 bikes and two years.) But I put an ounce of Orange Seal in them roughly twice a year AND carry 2 spares (narrow Rallys that will fit on all my bikes, 2 oz sealant in a Stan's bottle and a roll of rim tape. (Still deciding whether I like glue or tape I like more. Rim tape is easy and clean but I just replaced the tape on a wheel after it failed the push test. Can I push the pumped up tire off the rim with my less than super strong hands? I've been using Tubasti in the CF formulation on my aluminum rims because I have rarely seen the old formulation to buy and I am not fully certain I trust the CF stuff on aluminum for hard corners. I am getting old and generally don't push it downhill but I am getting old and crashes do me far more damage than they used to. A Tubasti plus - considerably more grip after replacing a tire than the harder setting up glues. Even this CF stuff.
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Old 06-22-24, 10:20 PM
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Since we're doing detail... Yes, ALWAYS carry a spare! Especially in The City ! Two would not be a bad idea... Every rider I knew, none EVER tried to do a roadside tire repair...
Thumb test - best to find a burly fireman and have him try to push the (fully inflated) tire off the rim from the side, with his thumbs - Just like the guy who did each bike inspection at every race, back then...
Just took a quick look at the Velox patch kit - paltry... Go to a Michaels - get the waxed linen thread, a curved needle, also small bottle rubber cement. Buy Remo FO patches, restitch the tire in the same pattern as existing on the tire, through the holes of the thread you had to cut to get to the tube hole. (this is found in the area where the object puncturing the tire is seen/found, or where the tire penetration is seen.
Pinch flats are super rare, unless you ride the tire with super-low inflation pressures.
Rim Tape - I bought some when it first came out - I tried it and Even I could easily push the tire off the rim with thumbs - a 'fail'.
Maybe the new stuff is better - but you're gonna need to convince me.
Ride On
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Old 06-23-24, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
published weights for rims which come in both types seem to be within 60g, a 25mm GP 5000 is 220 grams, the lightest 25mm tubular i see from vittoria or conti seems to be 280g. throw some sealant in there and the tubeless clinchers are probably 30mm heavier, all else with hubs and spokes etc equal. that kind of difference is seriously marginal. and of course you won't have pinch flats.
Once you add in the additional weight of 1 or 2 spare tubular tyres you need to carry, this seriously marginal gain is long gone.
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Old 06-23-24, 05:32 AM
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All this discussion leaves me wondering why on earth anyone would want to commute with tubulars in a city.
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Old 06-23-24, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen
Just took a quick look at the Velox patch kit - paltry... Go to a Michaels - get the waxed linen thread, a curved needle, also small bottle rubber cement.
My preferred tool for sewing the casing:

https://www.speedystitcher.com/#spee...ade-in-america

It creates a locking stitch, just like a sewing machine.
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Old 06-23-24, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bboy314
All this discussion leaves me wondering why on earth anyone would want to commute with tubulars in a city.
There is a reason that tubulars are a vestige of cyclings past.
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Old 06-23-24, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
My preferred tool for sewing the casing:

https://www.speedystitcher.com/#spee...ade-in-america

It creates a locking stitch, just like a sewing machine.
I still have one of those, though I haven't used it in over 30 years.

Is that sailmaker's thread? That's what I used to use after it was recommended to me in the 1960's.
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Old 06-23-24, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
I still have one of those, though I haven't used it in over 30 years.

Is that sailmaker's thread? That's what I used to use after it was recommended to me in the 1960's.
The awl is supplied with a spool of "high-tensile waxed thread," although any similar waxed thread ought to suffice.
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Old 06-23-24, 04:25 PM
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In my opinion sew-ups are not exactly the easiest commuter tire to live with. There's more to them than the smooth ride. The maintenance side of sew-ups is something you either really enjoy or don't. Back in the 1970's I rode them because lots of people did. Sew-ups were just what "cyclists" used. I was a Vittoria fan back then with Velox glue not the sticky tapes. I was a "mainliner".

However, the multiple reasons previously mention are why I gave up sew-ups 40+ years ago. I still have 3 or 4 well-stocked Velox repair kits complete with the card of thread and thimble. One DID NEED the thimble when stitching the tire casing.


--

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Old 06-23-24, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by drlogik
In my opinion sew-ups are not exactly the easiest commuter tire to live with. There's more to them than the smooth ride. The maintenance side of sew-ups is something you either really enjoy or don't. Back in the 1970's I rode them because lots of people did. Sew-ups were just what "cyclists" used. I was a Vittoria fan back then with Velox glue not the sticky tapes. I was a "mainliner".

However, the multiple reasons previously mention are why I gave up sew-ups 40+ years ago. I still have 3 or 4 well-stocked Velox repair kits complete with the card of thread and thimble. One DID NEED the thimble when stitching the tire casing.


--
Speedy Stitchers. No thimble needed.
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Old 06-23-24, 06:35 PM
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Just returned from a dreamy recovery ride on my Pro Miyata. (Rode my fix gear in (accidently) one tooth too high until every muscle I own hurt Wednesday. Fri and Sat, 20+ city miles each day in too much heat. So today, just loafed on my easiest bike. 35 miles. On mix and match wheels. "Race" Veloflex tubbie on a GEL 330 up front and "train" Vittoria Corsa 23c on a GP4 in back. Wonderful quiet stroll. (When I stay disciplined re: the pace. If I don't watch it, she becomes the mistress. Luring me on with the lust for speed and that "ride". "You can go faster and you'll love it!") Today she behaved the whole ride. Just once, she lit up. I made the final left turn in traffic when there was finally a brief window. I gunned it and that's what those sewups live for!

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Old 06-23-24, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen
Since we're doing detail... Yes, ALWAYS carry a spare! Especially in The City ! Two would not be a bad idea... Every rider I knew, none EVER tried to do a roadside tire repair...
Thumb test - best to find a burly fireman and have him try to push the (fully inflated) tire off the rim from the side, with his thumbs - Just like the guy who did each bike inspection at every race, back then...
Just took a quick look at the Velox patch kit - paltry... Go to a Michaels - get the waxed linen thread, a curved needle, also small bottle rubber cement. Buy Remo FO patches, restitch the tire in the same pattern as existing on the tire, through the holes of the thread you had to cut to get to the tube hole. (this is found in the area where the object puncturing the tire is seen/found, or where the tire penetration is seen.
Pinch flats are super rare, unless you ride the tire with super-low inflation pressures.
Rim Tape - I bought some when it first came out - I tried it and Even I could easily push the tire off the rim with thumbs - a 'fail'.
Maybe the new stuff is better - but you're gonna need to convince me.
Ride On
Yuri
I'll carry a spare with me . I can use for the moment the old Hutchison tempo 2 seems in ok condition (please don't laugh too much). until I can get something better a Rally I will have to buy a few things sealant and patch equipment. Your recommendations are very helpful.
I hope the 30s fit nicely on my wheels. I couldn't find 28mm in the right price range . The 30s seem like a very good deal and a premium tire. there probably Not as fast as the 28 mm.

Last edited by Alexthe; 06-23-24 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 06-23-24, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexthe
I'll carry a spare with me . I can use for the moment the old Hutchison tempo 2 seems in ok condition (please don't laugh too much). until I can get something better a Rally I will have to buy a few things sealant and patch equipment. Your recommendations are very helpful.
I hope the 30s fit nicely on my wheels. I couldn't find 28mm in the right price range . The 30s seem like a very good deal and a premium tire. there probably Not as fast as the 28 mm.
The question is: do those 30s fit on your bike? Rims aren't an issue. There are very few rim/tire combos that don't work. (You can put the tires on dry, no glue, pump them up and check the bike fit. Most places will take them back if they've never seen glue or been ridden.)
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Old 06-23-24, 10:05 PM
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Bikes: 1] Motobecane Grand Jubilee 1978 2). 1980's Gios Turino Super Record .

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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Just returned from a dreamy recovery ride on my Pro Miyata. (Rode my fix gear in (accidently) one tooth too high until every muscle I own hurt Wednesday. Fri and Sat, 20+ city miles each day in too much heat. So today, just loafed on my easiest bike. 35 miles. On mix and match wheels. "Race" Veloflex tubbie on a GEL 330 up front and "train" Vittoria Corsa 23c on a GP4 in back. Wonderful quiet stroll. (When I stay disciplined re: the pace. If I don't watch it, she becomes the mistress. Luring me on with the lust for speed and that "ride". "You can go faster and you'll love it!") Today she behaved the whole ride. Just once, she lit up. I made the final left turn in traffic when there was finally a brief window. I gunned it and that's what those sewups live for!
Just the reason I went for this bike and the old-fashioned sew-ups, and still people are writing and thinking "why would anybody want to use Sew-ups for city commuting" ( or joy riding , same thing to me ) only I don't have an office to rush to in the morning With the Motobecane anymore( Temp job ) because I was always late ADD.

Last edited by Alexthe; 06-23-24 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 06-23-24, 10:21 PM
  #99  
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Bikes: 1] Motobecane Grand Jubilee 1978 2). 1980's Gios Turino Super Record .

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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
The question is: do those 30s fit on your bike? Rims aren't an issue. There are very few rim/tire combos that don't work. (You can put the tires on dry, no glue, pump them up and check the bike fit. Most places will take them back if they've never seen glue or been ridden.)
Thanks , here are the Hutchinson Tempo 2 I think there around 21 mm . There seems to be a fare amount of room and hope it should work out . there's more room at the top then appears in the picture. Approximately one and a half inches between the forks.

Last edited by Alexthe; 06-23-24 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 06-23-24, 10:48 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by mschwett
while i get the theory here that the hooks are "heavy" i wonder if in practice they add meaningful. looking around at the cross sections of modern carbon tubulars, hooked, and hookless rims of similar sizes the cross sectional area near the tire seems very, very similar. even accounting for inaccuracy of the published profiles, the tubular rims seem to have significantly thicker sections at the corners and the tire-rim interface, just like the hooked clincher rims do, where the vertical section adjacent the hooks is a primary part of the structure. published weights for rims which come in both types seem to be within 60g, a 25mm GP 5000 is 220 grams, the lightest 25mm tubular i see from vittoria or conti seems to be 280g. throw some sealant in there and the tubeless clinchers are probably 30mm heavier, all else with hubs and spokes etc equal. that kind of difference is seriously marginal. and of course you won't have pinch flats.

Those 28mm tubeless/clinchers have about as much air above the rim as a 23mm tubular.
My advice for NYC and a 120# rider was to use the cheap tire and toss it. For pure durability there are a number of better options and less value.
Here are some more of mine...

See the spikes? Those will cut you. These would handle NYC just fine. 33mm spiked Dugast.

That is with glue, freewheels, skewers - Ready to ride. I have not seen clinchers or tubeless within 500g and then they have as much air above the rim as 25-27mm clincher/tubeless. At air cushion value they are likely 1kg lighter.

Some of the not favorites.

Not for NYC

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