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35mm v 45mm

Old 05-29-24, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
Back to road&gravel tire sizes, beyond the bikes with 22/23/25/28mm, I'm running 30mm Schwalbe tubular @80psi, 33mm Soma clinchers @70psi, 38mm RH Barlow Pass @55psi. My rides are 80% paved, 20% unpaved. The gravel I ride (or realistically foresee riding regularly) has a packed surface with varying amounts of loose gravel.

I find the 38's make for a 'taller' feeling ride, not quite the plushness @55psi that some might prefer. The Soma Supple Vitesse (made in Japan) are very nice @70psi - soft on the road, always ready for urban gravel trails. The Schwalbe 30s I bought a few years back to be sturdy street tires = and they are!, could go lower on the pressure for a loose surface.

Conclusion - going from 28 to 38 changed the ride feel on a bike. Sitting taller, or feeling so, more tire noise, slower (heavier?) steering. I would imagine going from 35 to 45 to be similar, depending on one's pressures.

But I'm the guy who is content with 28mm hard road tires for the majority of their riding; and hard 22/23mm if the pavement is generally smooth.

Lots of tires and technologies to choose from. Nobody should be unhappy. If you know what you need it is a smorgasbord market place.
tubular, clincher, tubeless tires
hooked, hookless, tubular rims
carbon and aluminum rims in various depths and numerous spoke types
hubs in different price ranges & styles.
Yep, amazing array of choices and there is an incredible amount of knowledge here on Bike Forums!
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Old 05-29-24, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Your only mistake is arguing with a person who regards his anti-tubeless zealotry with a religious fervor. I mean, look at his sig line; you can't expect a rational discussion.
Am I wrong tho?
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Old 05-29-24, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Am I wrong tho?
​​​​​​For you, maybe you are correct -- assuming that you've tried tubeless, or at least have honestly assessed it and decided that you won't benefit enough to justify the little bit of fuss.

Your mistake is in assuming that, since you dislike tubeless, everyone else should eschew it, too -- as articulated in your signature line. You're ignoring the fact that many other people may do different types of riding than you, on different tires, in different environments and on different roads, for different reasons and with different goals -- and for some of those people, tubeless might be the best choice. You think that your choice should be universal, which is childish and egocentric as it expresses a belief that somehow you know what's right for others.
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Old 05-29-24, 12:35 PM
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In case anyone remembers the OP and his question ...... here is a novel suggestion ....

Try before you Buy.

Try the Marathons on the gravel trails, maybe with lowered psi. For what you describe, you might not need anything wider.

If you think you would be faster on the trails with skinnier tires, okay, but if we are talking about a few mm in width, I think pressure might be more important than trad compound ... do you need knobs for the gravel sections? Do the Marathons provide good traction on the loose gravel and good speed on the packed earth?

Do you ever ride in rain or after rain? You might want knobs to handle the mud, but only for that. Do you ever ride soft sand? Width is key. Do you want to go really fast on the trails, more so than on the street? Might you want to ride trails you have previously not explored?

Once you do some test miles under varying conditions, you will have a better idea what you want to augment the commuting wheels.

Do your own tests before you spend a hundred or so on tires you might later never use, perhaps.
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Old 05-29-24, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
A dozen years ago what you wrote would have been prudent. But now, in the year 2024, tubeless has been extremely well proven in low pressure applications. In that 35-45mm range that the OP is considering, tubeless is a no brainer.
Now tubeless has a learning curve. And there are some important considerations in choosing the wheels, tires and sealant. But once you got that sorted out, it really is the best option.
We will know when tubeless is ready for prime time when Trek FX3 come OEM with tubeless tires. Not tubeless ready rims, but the whole shebang. Not until then should anyone except an enthusiast adopt it. Koyote: an enthusiast. I say that respectfully. You I don't know. But I know the o.p. Again, as well as such a thing is possible. Their use case for tubeless is doomed from the start. Tubeless on a spare set of wheels is going to sit idle for long periods of time. Tubeless on a spare set of wheels means the primary wheels were not tubeless or tubeless ready. Really? Who else but an enthusiast buys spare wheelsets. I'm pretty enthusiastic I think, with nine bikes total (gave 3 away during Covid) in the stable, and I don't have spare wheelsets. Spare saddles, spare brakesets, pedals. If I needed a different type of wheel, I would just get a different bike that has those wheels as OEM. I don't think that is weird or eccentric.

It is more normal IMO to have a stable of bikes, each ready for purpose, than one that is neither fish nor fowl that you play swaperoo with when you need the other function. I wouldn't know, but I don't think the posters that experience difficulty: seating tubeless tires, keeping sealant from impairing valve cores, plugging larger punctures, taping up rims, yada. Did I just make any of that up? I get that with enough practice anything can be made easier but I don't see that the average cyclist has much stomach for even the slightest amount of learning curve. They want their bicycles to be as intuitive as their cars. I suppose I am one of them. Yeah, I may be projecting my own desire for as easy a relationship with bike tech as with most other things in my life. Know what, I don't think that's wrong. My sig is not meant for those who love their tubeless setups. It started as more or less a joke. The vast majority of cyclists are not on BF. My sig is not being seen by them, nor does it need to be. Only when tubeless is offered on new hybrids do they have to worry and by then (I'm sure) the worry will have been taken out of the technology. Most likely by the introduction of Kevlar and other flat reduction materials in the casings of mass market tubeless models.
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Old 05-29-24, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
We will know when tubeless is ready for prime time when Trek FX3 come OEM with tubeless tires. Not tubeless ready rims, but the whole shebang. Not until then should anyone except an enthusiast adopt it. Koyote: an enthusiast. I say that respectfully. You I don't know. But I know the o.p. Again, as well as such a thing is possible. Their use case for tubeless is doomed from the start. Tubeless on a spare set of wheels is going to sit idle for long periods of time. Tubeless on a spare set of wheels means the primary wheels were not tubeless or tubeless ready. Really? Who else but an enthusiast buys spare wheelsets. I'm pretty enthusiastic I think, with nine bikes total (gave 3 away during Covid) in the stable, and I don't have spare wheelsets. Spare saddles, spare brakesets, pedals. If I needed a different type of wheel, I would just get a different bike that has those wheels as OEM. I don't think that is weird or eccentric.

It is more normal IMO to have a stable of bikes, each ready for purpose, than one that is neither fish nor fowl that you play swaperoo with when you need the other function. I wouldn't know, but I don't think the posters that experience difficulty: seating tubeless tires, keeping sealant from impairing valve cores, plugging larger punctures, taping up rims, yada. Did I just make any of that up? I get that with enough practice anything can be made easier but I don't see that the average cyclist has much stomach for even the slightest amount of learning curve. They want their bicycles to be as intuitive as their cars. I suppose I am one of them. Yeah, I may be projecting my own desire for as easy a relationship with bike tech as with most other things in my life. Know what, I don't think that's wrong. My sig is not meant for those who love their tubeless setups. It started as more or less a joke. The vast majority of cyclists are not on BF. My sig is not being seen by them, nor does it need to be. Only when tubeless is offered on new hybrids do they have to worry and by then (I'm sure) the worry will have been taken out of the technology. Most likely by the introduction of Kevlar and other flat reduction materials in the casings of mass market tubeless models.
Okay, now I understand: you decide what is "normal," you decide what the "average cyclist" wants, and you are "projecting" your own desires onto others.

Ego, ego, ego...With a large side order of more ego.
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Old 05-29-24, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
In case anyone remembers the OP and his question ...... here is a novel suggestion ....

Try before you Buy.

Try the Marathons on the gravel trails, maybe with lowered psi. For what you describe, you might not need anything wider.

If you think you would be faster on the trails with skinnier tires, okay, but if we are talking about a few mm in width, I think pressure might be more important than trad compound ... do you need knobs for the gravel sections? Do the Marathons provide good traction on the loose gravel and good speed on the packed earth?

Do you ever ride in rain or after rain? You might want knobs to handle the mud, but only for that. Do you ever ride soft sand? Width is key. Do you want to go really fast on the trails, more so than on the street? Might you want to ride trails you have previously not explored?

Once you do some test miles under varying conditions, you will have a better idea what you want to augment the commuting wheels.

Do your own tests before you spend a hundred or so on tires you might later never use, perhaps.
I can get behind this. Me and mine ride with a tandem club with 25 other teams. On a typical ride, 9 to 12 teams will show up for 30 to 40 miles on your typical suburban/ex-urb road surfaces. Near as I can tell, ALL rigs shod with 28mm tires f/r. Schwalbe Marathon (not plus) for the most part. Cannondale's, Santana's, Co-Motion's, Burley's, etc all set up with 28mm Schwalbe Marathons. Coincidence? On one of those rides the trip leader messed up and we found ourselves facing a stretch of unpaved road. Either we went through the gravel or we turned around which would have doubled our ride distance. We opted to face the gravel and it wasn't fun but we all came through it ok. 28mm @ ~100psi handles gravel well enough if you use your head, and I don't really believe that 45mm at an appropriate pressure would be exactly 'comfortable'. That 'comfortable' word gets used A LOT when talking about tubeless, and I just don't know. I really have a hard time understanding the word comfort with respect to a bicycle. No, one should not be in agony, but comfort?
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Old 05-29-24, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
​​​​​​For you, maybe you are correct -- assuming that you've tried tubeless, or at least have honestly assessed it and decided that you won't benefit enough to justify the little bit of fuss.

Your mistake is in assuming that, since you dislike tubeless, everyone else should eschew it, too -- as articulated in your signature line. You're ignoring the fact that many other people may do different types of riding than you, on different tires, in different environments and on different roads, for different reasons and with different goals -- and for some of those people, tubeless might be the best choice. You think that your choice should be universal, which is childish and egocentric as it expresses a belief that somehow you know what's right for others.
A gross overstatement of my actual position. At the time the sig represented a push back to the tubeless proselytizing that was taking place here. It is not an offensive gesture, it is not my EGO, it is a PSA. If I had the time I could link you to several sad threads from people that tried tubeless and wished they had not.
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Old 05-29-24, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
We will know when tubeless is ready for prime time when Trek FX3 come OEM with tubeless tires. Not tubeless ready rims, but the whole shebang. Not until then should anyone except an enthusiast adopt it.
Well, a step up from a Wally bike but a low bar, nevertheless. And surely 99% of us consider ourselves cycling enthusiasts. I do agree OP is not a good match with tubeless.
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Old 05-29-24, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
A gross overstatement of my actual position. At the time the sig represented a push back to the tubeless proselytizing that was taking place here. It is not an offensive gesture, it is not my EGO, it is a PSA. If I had the time I could link you to several sad threads from people that tried tubeless and wished they had not.
And what about the huge number of people who've tried tubeless, are extremely happy with the results and never looked back? Do they not count in your world?
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Old 05-29-24, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeDeason
...bought an extra carbon OE wheelset with matching cassette and rotor for the disc...
Great... Having that second wheel set is like having another bicycle.
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Old 05-29-24, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
We will know when tubeless is ready for prime time when Trek FX3 come OEM with tubeless tires. Not tubeless ready rims, but the whole shebang. Not until then should anyone except an enthusiast adopt it.
The reason why the factories don't pre-fill the tires full of sealant, is not because this technology is 'not ready for prime time'. It's because they don't know how the customers will use the bike. Some customers park their bike in their summer home in Florida and only ride it 6 months out of the year and stash it in the garage for the other 6 months. The bike factories also don't ship their new bikes withj pedals. Do you then conclude that pedals are not ready for prime time?
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Old 05-29-24, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval
Great... Having that second wheel set is like having another bicycle.
But without the bicycle part ...
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Old 05-29-24, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
The reason why the factories don't pre-fill the tires full of sealant, is not because this technology is 'not ready for prime time'. It's because they don't know how the customers will use the bike. Some customers park their bike in their summer home in Florida and only ride it 6 months out of the year and stash it in the garage for the other 6 months. The bike factories also don't ship their new bikes withj pedals. Do you then conclude that pedals are not ready for prime time?
Nice try. There is more to tubeless than Sealant Inside™. The rims need to be ready and/or taped. And the tires need to have the right kind of bead so they don't blow off the rim during seating. And the tires also need to be fragile and prone to flats, unless of course, they have Sealant Inside™. When that changes we will all know.
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Old 05-29-24, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Nice try. There is more to tubeless than Sealant Inside™. The rims need to be ready and/or taped. And the tires need to have the right kind of bead so they don't blow off the rim during seating. And the tires also need to be fragile and prone to flats, unless of course, they have Sealant Inside™. When that changes we will all know.
As icemilkcoffee said,

"The bike factories also don't ship their new bikes with pedals. Do you then conclude that pedals are not ready for prime time?"

Same thing, except that, in contrast to a bike to which you must add pedals, you can ride a bike with tubeless-ready wheels immediately. Just air and go.

But you make a good point about the unusual status of tubeless technology, which is available but not standard equipment, as they say in the automotive business.

Tubeless tires can be thought of as an available option, a concept that is very well known to car purchasers - think of the bewildering array of option packages you might choose from when buying a car - but a fairly new thing in bike shops.

Tubeless tires are no more or less ready for prime time than any of those option packages offered by car dealerships. We're just not yet used to the idea of such packages in the bike world.

By the way, I don't ride tubeless and probably never will. So I guess we're friends.
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Old 05-29-24, 04:13 PM
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My lower end Cannondale Topstone came with tubeless rims already taped and tubeless ready tires. Was delivered with tubes for the obvious reasons already mentioned. IIRC the shop offered to remove the tubes, install the valves and sealant but I declined. I planned to soon swap the tires, which I set up tubeless with no drama. It certainly isn't unusual for bikes to come ready for tubeless.
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Old 05-29-24, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Nice try. There is more to tubeless than Sealant Inside™. The rims need to be ready and/or taped. And the tires need to have the right kind of bead so they don't blow off the rim during seating.
They DO in fact ship bikes with tubeless ready rims already taped for tubeless, together with tubeless tires right from the factory. Like this Trek Checkpoint for example:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...e=red_bluedark
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Old 05-29-24, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Nice try. There is more to tubeless than Sealant Inside™. The rims need to be ready and/or taped. And the tires need to have the right kind of bead so they don't blow off the rim during seating. And the tires also need to be fragile and prone to flats, unless of course, they have Sealant Inside™. When that changes we will all know.
You should really visit a few shops and look at MTB and gravel bike offerings before posting things like this. You just continue to embarrass yourself.
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Old 05-29-24, 04:33 PM
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Repost, as maybe more appropriate to this thread on tire width than the thread I originally put it in

for fun here are links to Rene Herse on wide tires etc.
I know not everyone buys into this, but seems to work for me (riding 32 tubed on road) but good reading
Also a lot of top gravel racers are successful on these tires

MikeDeason I know you love your schwalbe.... but maybe consider other options for the second wheel set.....gravel king or rene herse come to mind

most importantly have fun and ride the heck out of the new bike

https://www.renehersecycles.com/why-...re-not-slower/

https://www.renehersecycles.com/how-...should-i-ride/

https://www.renehersecycles.com/the-...re-calculator/

https://www.renehersecycles.com/why-...houlder-knobs/
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Old 05-29-24, 05:17 PM
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rene herse sells tires ... not sure I trust the source ...

for instance ... "Most of us agree that wide tires can make cycling much more fun, because they encourage us to seek out less-traveled roads." Trying to sell some wider Rene Herse rubber there, maybe?

I certainly don't agree with that and don't know anyone who does. Everyone I know who rides pavement wants maximum efficiency, not the ability to go offroad ... and everyone I know ho likes to ride gravel has a different wheel set or a different bike for that.

"Wide tires are safer, too, because they have more grip and because they don’t easily fall into cracks in the pavement." Ummm ... yeah except that no matter how wide a tire, a crack can be wider ... most riders don't fall into cracks not because they have wide tires but because ... they don't fall into cracks. Most cyclists don't ride off bridges or into buildings, either ... rubber nonwithstanding.

Then do test Coasting .... but the reality of heavy tires is that they need to be accelerated. Look, most of us have run a variety or rubber on a variety of bikes. I have personally done back-to-back swaps of wheelsets and I can say that, science nonwithstanding, I can Feel a definite difference with lighter wheels and tirews ... I realize it is only for a few pedal strokes ... but that was with two different wheelsets with 28s. Double the tire width, and more than double the weight .... yeah.

Also they claim there is no aero loss with wider tires ... so ... frontal area doesn't apply to tires? (In fact, in their chart the two widest sizes, 49 and 52, Do take more energy to ride ... but so what, right? The headline says otherwise.

Like I say in another post, we can look at what racers ride ... the guys who make more money the faster they go ... and they seem not to agree with the Herse company.

I mean, if you read the manufacturer's literature, we are all dehydrated and need carbs, salts, and sugar, and should be swilling quarts of Gatorade .... but Skratch Labs claims that too much salt can actually thicken your blood, and we have all felt carbo bloat form too much "energy" drink.

If I see better science ... i will acknowledge that. And I am sure all the pro teams in various cyclign dsiciplines will too.

Meanwhile ... how come no one is winning Tour stages on fat bikes? Well, we know it's not the tires ... because the tire width isn't an issue.
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Old 05-29-24, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
rene herse sells tires ... not sure I trust the source ...

for instance ... "Most of us agree that wide tires can make cycling much more fun, because they encourage us to seek out less-traveled roads." Trying to sell some wider Rene Herse rubber there, maybe?

I certainly don't agree with that and don't know anyone who does. Everyone I know who rides pavement wants maximum efficiency, not the ability to go offroad ... and everyone I know ho likes to ride gravel has a different wheel set or a different bike for that.

"Wide tires are safer, too, because they have more grip and because they don’t easily fall into cracks in the pavement." Ummm ... yeah except that no matter how wide a tire, a crack can be wider ... most riders don't fall into cracks not because they have wide tires but because ... they don't fall into cracks. Most cyclists don't ride off bridges or into buildings, either ... rubber nonwithstanding.

Then do test Coasting .... but the reality of heavy tires is that they need to be accelerated. Look, most of us have run a variety or rubber on a variety of bikes. I have personally done back-to-back swaps of wheelsets and I can say that, science nonwithstanding, I can Feel a definite difference with lighter wheels and tirews ... I realize it is only for a few pedal strokes ... but that was with two different wheelsets with 28s. Double the tire width, and more than double the weight .... yeah.

Also they claim there is no aero loss with wider tires ... so ... frontal area doesn't apply to tires? (In fact, in their chart the two widest sizes, 49 and 52, Do take more energy to ride ... but so what, right? The headline says otherwise.

Like I say in another post, we can look at what racers ride ... the guys who make more money the faster they go ... and they seem not to agree with the Herse company.

I mean, if you read the manufacturer's literature, we are all dehydrated and need carbs, salts, and sugar, and should be swilling quarts of Gatorade .... but Skratch Labs claims that too much salt can actually thicken your blood, and we have all felt carbo bloat form too much "energy" drink.

If I see better science ... i will acknowledge that. And I am sure all the pro teams in various cyclign dsiciplines will too.

Meanwhile ... how come no one is winning Tour stages on fat bikes? Well, we know it's not the tires ... because the tire width isn't an issue.
don't disagree on the point rene herse sells tires, and don't 100% buy their koolaid but I find Jan's ideas generally well thought out and overall there is ton's of good input on tires (C&V likes them in general)

If you are going to define racing as tour de france then they are running super wide tires 28mm compared to a few years ago and 32 for cobbles (or for Hell of the north) so super narrow is clearly not faster and seems like they support the idea wider, to a degree, is faster.

meanwhile gravel racers are going, well way faster than me (not saying much) and way faster than a lot of people on big tires

I have been riding the rene herse 32mm and take them on a 2 to 4 miles of gravel on one of my standard rides, but overall they don't feel slower or have less cornering than GP5000... again if my speed were a lot higher might make a difference, but overall i like having a bit more capability on non paved roads than not. of course non paved roads don't equal mountain trails

I am not sure maximum efficiency equals narrow. it seems generally accepted that the feel of speed and the actual speed are not always the same

as for Aero....a loose floppy jersey probably cost more than 5 mm of tire width and position is even more critical (painfully reminded of this last week when I took a more upright bike out into a head wind) all in all the frontal area of a tire is minimal compared to other factors. Putting narrower bars on can make more difference (GCN did this recently)


here are the rene herse thoughts of what makes a bike fast
https://www.renehersecycles.com/what-makes-a-bike-fast/

I agree that it is not just the tire, but the wheel tire combo and IMHO people discount light rim and wheel build/weight (my 84 team miyata has MA40 rims...and came with a bontrager 25 tire, very stiff and super thick thorn proof tubes...the ride was not impressive, put some gravel king 28 (measure more like 26 and conti racelite tubes and it was a different bike, and then put a tubular wheel set, Mavic gel 330 (probably too light for my weigh) rims, and 27mm challenge tubies and the bike came alive)

any way time to put new cleats on the shoe in prep for a ride tommorow
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Old 05-29-24, 06:14 PM
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Okay, Mr. Squirtdad ... just to make sure we are not talking at cross-purposes ... i respect you too much to want to bicker ..... but it seems you overlook points I make selectively.

it has been amply demonstrated that except on the track, tires in the 25-28 mm range, at lower pressures, because they are more supple, ride faster than 19s or 23s at rock-hard pressures ... which was the accepted belief what, 20 years ago? I know in about 2015 the idea that wider, softer tires were faster RELATIVE TO the old rock-hard skinnies was well understood.

However, i also keep saying that this is not a linear relationship ... if it was, fat bikes with five-inch tires at three pounds would be the fastest.

The question of loose jerseys is nonsense ... Rene Herse is saying there is Zero increased aero drag despite doubled tire frontal area. Ask an engineer ..... but as you say, even you don't swallow All their kool-aid.

Please stop tryjng to prove 28as at 90 or 72 are faster in most circumstances than 19s 0r 23s at 160 0r 140 psi. Everyone knows that. Please stop telling me facts everyone knows about rides riding 30s, 32s, or 34s for the cobbles. That has been discussed for a couple seasons now. All the info is included in my considerations .... some of it is mentioned specifically.

My point is that "wider tires are faster" is the equivalent of "lighter is better." There is a limit beyond which the generalization becomes inaccurate.

You say that World Tour teams are on wider tires ... so do I. What you ignore is when I ask why they aren't on Rene Herse super-supple 52s or something .... since those guys make more money the more they win and place, if 45s or 55s were faster, that is what they would use. if 45s were faster, every bike in Paris-Roubaix would be on 45s ... at least.

I do not care what Rene Herse says to sell tires. I pointed out a bold-faced lie in the very first line of their advertisement ...

Anyway ... please, ride what you like. I Do Not Care. Truly i do not care if you hate every ride, though, as a fellow cyclist, I hope that every cyclist has a great ride every time, because I know cycling can be such a source of joy in many different ways. But we don't know each other. If i died tomorrow ... you would never know. Yo would figure i finally got banned for being such a richard.

Still ... i respect what you post, as a rule, and I do not want to in any way inhibit you from riding whatever you like. I don't want to limit the choices of riding styles you might choose from or even invent. I have no desire to in any way cause you any unhappiness.

Still ... why aren't all the World Tour teams on fat bikes? After all tire width and aero doesn't affect speed ........

Just having fun here. Please be well and do good.
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Old 05-29-24, 06:47 PM
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Narrow tires under 25mm limit the bike paths you can take here. I think some are in denial but I know that the skinny tire set avoid many paved river paths near my place because of the badly cracked and heaved concrete. I was even conscious of this after going from my Mountain bike hybrid with 45mm to a commuter-style bike with 38mm tires. 38 seems to be a happy medium in the city, wide enough not to be scared away from less than ideal pavement and skinny enough to move at a good enough clip in the city core and busy surrounding paths and bike lanes.
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Old 05-29-24, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
They DO in fact ship bikes with tubeless ready rims already taped for tubeless, together with tubeless tires right from the factory. Like this Trek Checkpoint for example:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...e=red_bluedark
Nice enthusiast bike. I am not moving goalposts. Long before this post I said when Trek FX3's have tubeless, only then. I wondered when discs would appear at the FX3 altitude. It's here. My LBS says carbon will be the material FX3's are made out of in a decade. I expect to see tubeless for the masses before carbon for everybody. I'm not anti-tubeless forever just anti-tubeless for now.
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Old 05-30-24, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeDeason
Narrow tires under 25mm limit the bike paths you can take here. I think some are in denial but I know that the skinny tire set avoid many paved river paths near my place because of the badly cracked and heaved concrete. I was even conscious of this after going from my Mountain bike hybrid with 45mm to a commuter-style bike with 38mm tires. 38 seems to be a happy medium in the city, wide enough not to be scared away from less than ideal pavement and skinny enough to move at a good enough clip in the city core and busy surrounding paths and bike lanes.
i have a ridiculous number of thousands of miles of urban commuting experience ..... much done on 27x1 or 1 1/4 or 1/18 .... 25-32 mm. 1.6 inches (38s) did indeed seem to be the best compromise between good rolling and good safety.

Urban riding is tricky because road conditions change daily and a lot of debris ends up in bike lanes (or just on the road edge, if no lanes) and with repairs, pavement breakdown from high use, and garbage and all that, a wider tire is not always needed but sometimes is a real help ... and since I was usually carry a couple dozen pounds or more of food and clothes and gear, weight was not an issue.

Gravel is much different than cracked, broken, or frost-heaved pavement because gravel goes on ... it is not an obstacle to be overcome and left behind, it Is the riding surface, and because it shifts and moves constantly, a little float form wider tires is a big gain. I have tried narrower treads on packed earth and gravel, and they tend to dig in or displace dirt and gravel which makes handling very sketchy. If I were riding gravel or dirt regularly I would want at least 38s .... Decent pavement, I now prefer 28s ...

of course, tire width is a tiny portion of the story. I like supple, light tires (with Tuffy-type liners if I am riding in urban areas) to rock-hard, "puncture-proof" ties ( I believe SquirtDad referenced this as well.)
Originally Posted by squirtdad
I agree that it is not just the tire, but the wheel tire combo and IMHO people discount light rim and wheel build/weight (my 84 team miyata has MA40 rims...and came with a bontrager 25 tire, very stiff and super thick thorn proof tubes...the ride was not impressive, put some gravel king 28 (measure more like 26 and conti racelite tubes and it was a different bike, and then put a tubular wheel set, Mavic gel 330 (probably too light for my weigh) rims, and 27mm challenge tubies and the bike came alive)
Each rider must, of course, find one;'s own "best" set-up ... we all ride differently, different terrain, distances, different goals, all of that.

I am mostly here saying that the idea that wider tires are always just as fast or faster than narrower tires has a very narrow application, while some people seem to preach it as highest truth.
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