Roughly 4,500 failures out of 760,000 sold.

Why ruin a good excuse use the ridiculous term “assplode” the second dumbest word used on these forums besides “crabon” with facts.

That was the number reported by Shimano BEFORE they issued the recall. And Shimano would only find out about those failures when somebody sent in a claim for a warranty replacement. How many people broke theirs after the warranty period? How many people were riding on cranksets that are cracked but haven't broken yet? How many more defective units were found during the subsequent recall campaign? We don't know. And these are all very new cranksets. How many more will continue to fail in the years to come? We don't know.
All I know is that, if somebody was looking to buy one of these cranksets I would advise them to buy a 105 crankset instead. That one is made of all metal- no glue involved.

I love these threads in which posters tell us that cheap stuff is as good as expensive stuff...And that those of us who buy expensive stuff are suckers.

Eebrakes definitely look like a rip off to me. Over $400 and their product page claims one of the benefits is crossing the cable in front like they do is more aero. What is that going to save, 0.0001 watts? I'm happy to pay for some new innovation if it works like the old Shimano attempt to add linkages to bring the pads to the rim in a more parallel orientation, but what eebrakes is selling isn't innovation.

In other industries, like electronics, expensive brand name products often consistently lose blind comparisons. For example:
https://www.wired.com/story/we-asked...re-surprising/

Similarly, blind taste tests for wine have shown expensive wine just gets rated highly when people can see the label.

Sounds like the same thing going on here. People pay hundreds extra for a Beats logo in that product sector and build an "elite" identity around that, but really they are just getting milked. Then when someone points out they are getting taken advantage of they have to attack to defend their identity.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f17338908.gif

In China, their high speed rail is about $20million per km. Here in California, the price tag is estimated to be close to $200million per mile. They both started in 2008. China has built 30,000 miles of HSR since then. California 60. Do any of you harbor any illusion that our HSR will be 10X better than theirs? Do any of you harbor any illusion that ours will be even be half as good as theirs?
So no, paying more doesn't mean you are getting more. Sometimes paying more just means you are paying for somebody's inefficiency.

Congratulations, you just won the October award for most irrelevant comparison.

Yep.

We could certainly build high-speed rail at a lower cost per mile here in the US, but we have those damned property rights, and we like livable wages and a cleaner environment, and all kinds of silly stuff like that.

And that's completely aside from the cherry-picked numbers.

You can pull out any number of excuses, but the fact remains that they build high speed rail cheaper, faster and more than us.
As I said, China builds 90% of our bicycles. I am just going to trust the people who build bicycles by the container-ship loads, over some guy who sells a hundred 'aren't-I-clever' boutique pieces.

Having actually ridden them for 8 years on two bikes, I can say they are expensive no doubt but they stop better than any other brakes and weigh less than any other brakes on the market, I have tried the top end brakes from Shimano, SRAM and Campy and these blow those out of the water massively. I cannot speak to aerodynamics but I can say without pause or hesitation they are the best rim brakes on the market and have been worth the money. Picking up the package the first time and getting scared there was nothing inside and then opening it to those brakes was awesome. Truly featherweight but extremely stiff so it does the job and then some.

Yes you can get good results from decent dual pivots and good pads and shoes and I am not suggesting everyone go out and purchase eeBrakes but if you want to truly upgrade your braking experience to the max go for it and you won't be disappointed.

In terms of other things sure some blind tests can lead you elsewhere, wine is different than brakes. Beats are not a premium product they are a premium price but way too bass heavy and are artificially weighted, I got a pair as a gift that were gotten for free and I use them on occasion but I would not buy those again but a nice pair of say Sennhiesers or similar well respected well rated audiophile headphones I would happily. There are hype products which are super common but companies like Sennhieser or McIntosh or Cane Creek, Campagnolo...nice stuff is worth the money because they make a quality product and have for a long time and aren't just out there purely for hype and make cheap products that feel at a basic level high end.

You're willfully ignoring the point: China can build HSR at a lower cost per mile not because they are necessarily more clever or efficient, but because they have a very different political-economic system. For example, if they want an entire town or city to be relocated to make room for a public project, they can do it; it's not so simple in the US because we have more rights. China also has very different geography, which is rather important when plotting out rail lines. These things are not really replicable, and they bear no relation at all to the manufacture of bike parts.

But the choo choo train go fast and they putteded the tracks so fast so the choo choo train go fast. They can go up to 268 miles per hour which is super fast because some trains don't go that fast and when it goes that fast it makes a really cool choo choo noise wooooooooooooosh. I have a choo choo train in my room that doesn't go as fast but I had to make it and not the Chinese. Did you know in China they call Chinese food, food and they also have a big wall but their choo choo train doesn't go on the wall.

IKR. I buy Prime ribeyes from a local butcher because they taste better than steaks from grocery stores chains, including post-Amazon Whole Foods.

I worked in or for the rail industry for decades. What you don’t understand (much of which has already been pointed out) could fill a Plate F boxcar.

Well done.

You caught the unwashed masses flat-footed as is to be expected.

When buying China products, I buy from established China companies like Light Bicycle and RockBros, etc. and have yet to have any issues.

The only reason "ro ck br os" feels established is because they just steal designs from other companies and slap their rip-off name on it. Cheap junk they didn't design with a name taken basically from another company but they replaced the "A" and "N" with an "O" and used the common shorthand version so instead of CrankBros it is Rock..

An Ultrasonic Thickness Tester could possibly be used in testing Carbon Fiber Frames. I would not do it but what the heck. I am sure there are people who would...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a671a1ecc9.png
89 USD - ebay

Here 'tar... Cheap Chiney $43 fork looking thing on my mtn bike. Was riding on paved path and some Walmart bike hit me head on - low speed thankfully.
After examining the 'carbon' fork legs (or dark cheese - hard to tell), I roundly chastised the idiot that installed the fork (...OK...it was me :innocent:) and made him put the other two such 'forks' on the garage wall as art.

https://i.imgur.com/pzWtrhjl.jpeg

yes but they make solid knock offs. Especially pedals and bags.

Alien Pros is the one I can’t figure out

But that is not OK! Making knockoffs and stealing IP is not cool. Imagine you do all this R+D and make a great product and then some company comes along and steals the look and makes it cheaper (with cheaper parts) are you happy or are you pissed like everyone else? What if we put it in more day to day terms, if someone stole your wallet would you be happy and say well I am so glad he stole my wallet or would you be angry that someone stole your property and took money from you?

Knockoffs are bad, agreed.
At the same time, the people who buy them weren't going to buy the real thing due to price and/or perceived value. And since the knockoff isnt as good quality/performance, the real brand isn't losing out and the fake product isn't giving the customer the same experience.

I am not justifying knockoffs, to be clear. I am explaining the fundamental difference and that it can result in something that is a uniquely different product. It may look similar to the real product, but it performs differently.
This isn't applicable to all knockoffs, but it is for a lot.


Anyways, I am actually posting because I want to get your take on Rockbros products that aren't knockoffs. The brand produces a lot of their own design products...are those acceptable, or are they fruit of the poisonous tree?

I recently bought a Rockbros triangular shaped 1.5 liter headset bag. I couldn’t say if it’s a knock off. Its actually a great bag as I no longer have to stuff my jersey pockets w stuff. It’s a decently made product and in addition to my under saddle bag I get some paper disposable gloves, another tube, another co2, my cell phone, my AirPods case, a banana and a snack bar in there w ease. I also bought some alien pros bar tape and it’s actually very decent. It wraps well and the feel is nice. The brifter tapes are crap so just cut some of the old bar tape for that. They give you end caps too but they’re junk. For half the price or less of whatever name brand I got two rolls. If it lasts a cpl of seasons even better. I’ve paid a lot more for Fizik tape that looked like crap fast and fell apart.

Your cupboards must be filled with China products.