thorton

Seems with the cost of gas, gridlocks, pollution, and obesity. Combined with the increase image of "I got a huge beergut and want to get rid of it" That LBS's are really missing the golden wagon here. Seems if they begain advertising bicycles, and cycling in general, and stocked some decent entry level commuters (moreso than they had now) they could make a good chunk of coin and develop a sort of new market. Right now it seems more they are sitting back waiting for people to come to them, rather than going out and showing people what a good lifestyle choice this is. Anyone who owns a LBS feel free to jump in, just an observation Ive had in Southern Ontario. No Cycling adds, anywhere.

stapfam

Problem is that the cheaper end of the market is where a lot of bikes are sold- but through mail order- chainstores and the Wallmart type stores. The LBS does not get into this sort of market- because the customers for them are not into this market. "Beginners" bikes mostly have to be cheap, and even a sensible quality bike is not cheap. If an LBS does start selling the Cheap bikes- all their profit would go on warranty work. I know as many of my neighbours have these cheap bikes and I am forever adjusting and repairing them. They are Absolute rubbish but people will not pay for a sensible quality bike that is going to sit in the shed after the first weeks enthusiasm is over.

Once you are into biking it is a different matter. Then the rider wants a bike that will do a 20 mile ride, still not cost a lot to buy, and will be a joy to ride. That is the market for any LBS, but I must agree that the Shop owners are not good enough at capturing that market.

pinerider

Stepfam is right, the general populace thinks "a good bike" is the $200 one at Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire. (the $100 ones are "regular bikes") If the general populace happens to enter a bike shop they find the prices shocking and don't come back, unless they get educated some how. Most buy the crappy bikes, find that they are heavy, hard to ride and undependable, then hang them in the garage for 5 or 6 years, then toss them out with the garbage. They've tried cycling, didn't like it. Maybe the LBS's would be better off trying a public education advertising campaign.
I've been involved in a "recycle bikes from the landfill" project for 2 years, 3 things still amaze me:
Most customers will prefer a shiny piece of crap bike over a quality bike that's not so shiny, even when you tell them the shiny bike is a piece of crap and the other bike is a quality bike.
It is truly amazing what people throw out. You'd think they would offer the bikes to the Salvation Army or some other charity instead of just putting them out with the garbage.
Fuel prices go up, people get concerned and start thinking of alternative transportation, fuel prices drop slightly, everybody goes back to their normal drive to work and everywhere else.

Mason Red

Most folks don't get that quality from the megamart is lacking. I told a friend that my bike needed new tires, grips and a few things that must be replaced every few years or after they sit for years not being used. The response was just get a new bike it would only cost a little more. When I explained the frame and most stuff was 20+ years old he didn't snap and must have thought it was a waste of time and money to bother. We live in a disposable society that wants faster/bigger now!
I pulled the old bike out after going back to college and working a job and half for over 3 years and more added pounds than was good for my health. Two years later I've lost 30 pounds, feel much better and still have a bike that is as good as it was 20 years ago.

Retro Grouch 

Man, you can spend a ton of money on that kind of overall market promotion and get absolutely zero results. At one time I led the formation of a Bicycle Dealers Association in the metro area where I had my shop for just that purpose. The larger retailers in our area declined to participate and, when I eventually closed my store, the association fell apart.

Nermal

To the list, you might add type II diabetes, which I have. A brisk 25 minute walk will drop the glucose reading by 100 mb/dcl. So will a brisk 25 minute ride, but the scenery changes faster, and it's more fun.

duane041

Sadly, you'd also be amazed at what the Salvation Army throws out. The building where I work is adjacent to a Sal Army thrift store and collection/donation center. In one year, I have seen probably 100 to 200 bikes tossed in the garbage. Many of these are tossed AFTER the employees ride them around the parking lot. In the past 8 months I have saved:
A 1982 Schwinn Continental with about 100 miles on it (looks new)
A 1981 Schwinn Collegiate
An 80's Peugeot Mixte (brand new tires, nice Rigida 27" alloys)
A 1985 Ross Signature 292S (almost NOS it was so nice, full Shimano 105)
A Raleigh Super Course, circa 1984 (Racing USA model with some Shimano 105)
A 1972 Schwinn Suburban (all original)
An 85 or 86 Cannondale

This not only shows terrible waste on the SA's part, but think of the people throwing these bikes out? The only one that required any attention was the Cannondale, and that's only because it had no front wheel. Otherwise, these were all roadworthy, which meant the owners had given up on riding. How sad is that.

-=(8)=-

Realisticly, even a 500.00 - 1000.00 dollar bicyle is attainable to alot
of people. Just look how many people think nothing of dropping that
much on a Tv or 'entertainent center' ( ).....The limiting factor
is peoples attitudes. People are only getting lazier. In a remote control
society in which people actually depend on a car or truck to not only get
them to WaL*Mart or the mall, it has to make a statement about what rung
they reside on on the Darwinian ladder of consumerism and material possessions.
There are only going to be a limited number of people who will make a commitment
to doing anything that requires even a modicum of physical effort or risk looking
different to the neighbors they are competing with. Riding a bicyle is something
you do on the boardwalk on vacation. Otherwise, its a bums way of life.
Go figure.

barba

I may be the voice of decent here, but I think all bicycles are somewhat overpriced. There I said it. That doesn't mean that I don't spend too much money on bicycles, mind you. This is a pot calling the kettle black moment to be sure.

It does seem to me that it should be possible for people to buy a serviceable steel framed bike with dependable components for casual riding that is not a x-mart piece of crap for a few hundred dollars. Nothing flashy or super light weight, but solid and unlikely to have parts fall off. It is a problem of education on the part of the general public yes, but it is also a problem of a lack of availability at a price most would consider a sensible investment in a new hobby. I don't think that the problem is at the level of the LBS, but rather at the level of manufacturing and distribution.

I could be utterly wrong, though.

edzo

teh push is al wrong


WHat needs to be done to explode the rider base is:

cities must mandate 'for every blahblahblah square footage of business
space, the landlord must provide xyz number of bicycle parking poles/spaces/hutches'
[or cities themsalrfs will do it]...so people can ride a bike to work and feel
it is reasonably secure if locked up outside, or even has a place to park.

ONCE cities change, and mandate this, you'll see the bike 'splosion

toolba

Many of the comments above regarding the market for cheap bikes are true, BUT, the LBSs are still not doing it right. I've been in marketing my whole life, and can tell you these guys miss more business than they know. Here's just one example out of many. I'd been shopping for a bike with $2000 in my hand. I found the bike I wanted (without any help from the LBS--couldn't get anyone to help me!!! Dammit where are you guys?!) Went back to the store three times trying to get rid of my money. No Help! Went to another store, got attitude and very limited help. Finally discovered a store that was helpful and who wanted to take my money. After walking around with money in my pocket for weeks, I finally bought my bike. It shouldn't be that hard to make a purchase. Very few LBSs know how to market and merchandise.

-=(8)=-

Whence the time came that people where actually
coming into LBS's seeking to rise to a higher level of
enlightenment, societal responsibility and awareness,
etc the LBS's needs to enforce the theory that what
people want and what they need are two very different things.
The industry has been polluted by hype. Catch-22....Needs
the hype to survive but it is very costly and has many negative
repercussions.

Artkansas 

That's what many people think. Realistically, if you want to get a lot of people using their bike more you need to get leaders to use their bike.

Imaging Bush pedaling from the White House to Congress and then making a speech about oil dependence. He couldn't make a stonger statement about being serious about oil addiction.

Or what if Britney Spears was seen riding to the store with her baby in a trailer. Or Michael Jordan pedaling to work. Last good bike riding celebrity I can remember was John Kennedy Jr.

What I'd really like is seeing a show where an LBS steals your bike and tricks it out.... I've got a 30 year old American Eagle/Nishiki that could use a make over.

Nightshade

In the north American market nothing will change until
bicycle manufactures start to "re-educate" people that
bicycles are not toys only for children.

Back in the 1960's Honda had an ad campaign that said
"You meet the nicest people on a Honda" to change public
opinion away from the black leather biker Harley riders.
In doing so Honda changed the face of motorcycing forever.

People will not buy quality transportation capable bicycles
until they are taught about quality bicycles. When the
*mart's start selling decent non chinese bicycles we'll
know there is hope.

MarkS

Marketing is everything. Auto manufacturers spend a bundle to explain why their products are better ... or look better ... than anyone else's. Even oil mfg'rs have taken lately to explaining how their company is working for the future. Do the chain or local LBS's advertise anywhere? (other than direct advertisement to previous customers).

brennok

I am new to biking and currently shopping and debating the purchase of a bike. My experiences varied greatly among the 4 stores I shopped at.

The first shop was extremely friendly and I looked at the Trek 4500 and Fischer Marlin 2005, but those were the only two entry bikes thay had below $500 and only the Trek was the right size. There I was able to ride both.

The second shop was similar again with only two bikes one being a comfort, don't remember which one, and the Fischer Wahoo I believe. Again I was able to ride both.

The third shop pulled out a Raleigh 4.5 and said this is the bike for me. Now they did have a lot more models in the 500 and under such as specialized and a couple of other brands, but this was the only one they seemed to want to show me. I got the impression they were trying to get rid of this bike and had no desire to actually help me. I did not get to ride the bike, but they had a 3 day return policy.

The fourth shop also had a decent selection of under 500 bikes such as the GT Avalanche and the Giant Iguana, but again seemed unwilling to really help me. It was more make a decision on what type of riding I will be doing before I bother returning, which I realize is the first decision.

Of the four shops, only 2 are open past 6 on weekdays, one open till 7 and the other till 8. Of the four shops only two are open on Sunday, one 12-4 and the other 12-6. My friends and I all work 9-6 Monday-Friday which makes it even tougher.

All this and I am new to biking and trying to see if this is something I want to do. I walked away from the day somewhat frustrated and feeling like I made no progress in my search. Without these forums, I can only imagine how I would have felt. I guess it would be like my grandparents entering a computer store. At this point I don't know if I will get into biking, because while $500 is not a huge amount, it is when it comes to something that sits in the garage unused.

The problem these days is people don't want to shop at a small store. They want selection. As much as people say they want customer service, they don't shop at mom and pop stores they go to Target and Best Buy. I am more patient than most people I know, but even I felt a little burned out going to 4 stores to only see 5 bikes.

Guest

The thing is, the LBS isn't a fitness club. They don't have fitness consultants and personal trainers selling their bikes. I think they can definitely talk to people and tell them that cycling is a healthy lifestyle, but to expect them to go beyond that is probably asking a bit much. There are so many different reasons for people to want to buy a bike, and fitness is just one of those reasons. Bike shops would be better off offering a wider selection of bike choices and better hours. It doesn't do me a whole lot of good when a bike shop is only open 11am- 6pm on weekdays and 10am- 6pm on weekends. If it's Wednesday, and I work full time, and I need a part, I gotta wait until Saturday to get it. And that doesn't please me to waste time on my day off to get something I would have liked to have gotten before or after work.

Maybe it would be better for bike shops to partner up with health clubs or something. There was a club I where I exercised in Chicago that would tell us to go to a specific bike shop up in Lincoln Park and ask for spd's. So I go up there one day, and I ask for it, and they were just a bunch of smartasses- claiming they didn't know which one, etc., when they'd gotten a few people from my club going up there asking for the same spd's. So I left and went to Village Cycles, and lo and behold, they had exactly what I wanted. For the next year, they got all my business and sold me my first bike too. But my point is, an LBS would be better off if they went to one of the local clubs and introduced themselves and offered to provide their members anything they may need for their cycling. It wouldn't generate tons of cash, but it would give them more revenue. Then they can do stuff like offer free bike clinics, repair clinics, etc. That would certainly give them even more business. Now that would be cashing in on the fitness/health lifestyle.

Koffee

Guest

That is sooooo true. And people would say, "Well, why don't you approach them?", but I say it's their job to identify the potential customer and identify what it is that the customer may want. I'm not going to make a purchase involving so much money unless I talked to someone first, and if I need help deciding what I want, and they're not going to give it to me, then they're not going to give my money. This isn't like going to the Gap and asking if the sweater or the jacket is a better choice. This is an important mode of transportation that I will be using nearly every day, and it's going to cost me much money, even over the long run with maintenance and repair, upgrading, accessories, etc. Any good bike shop would know this. It doesn't need to be overpowering- I always say "be persistent to the point of obnoxiousness". Stick with that motto, and you'll more than likely get the sale.

Koffee

Nightshade

How many LBS have the cash to support any kind mass media
ad campaign?? Our largest LBS only advertizes on local AM talk
radio due the the cost.

That said, other than taking really good care of their customers and
keep a clean shop most LBS can't really "advertize" That job should
be up the manufactures. If the Chinese spot that weakness you can
bet that they will move aggressivly to fill it and we'll all be riden'
China bikes more than we are now.

mac

You are assuming that we have hit the peaks in gas prices, gridlocks, pollution, and obesity. The LBS have plenty of time for marketing - in fact, I doubt they will need to do a lot of marketing at all other than letting people know where they are located. We are in the midst of global Peak Oil and everyone, especially, Americans will be forced to change their lifestyle around to rely less on oil. People's attitudes will change once a trip to the gas station costs $200... twice a week.

Rev.Chuck

We sell from highend bikes to basic family or commuter bikes($4000-$280).
Selling to the basic bike guy can be a tooth pulling experience. We want to sell the bike and we want the person to end up with one that suits their needs. Sometimes (I think) they think we are trying to stick them on a particular bike when in fact we are trying to get them on the bike that does what they need it to do. Remember, when they came in the store they were bike noob, hadn't ridden in 20 years and then it was to a freinds house after school. We, the shop people have spent ten minutes asking them what kind of riding they want to do, will they do this also. Will tey ride with groups or just their kids. On the street or in the dirt, or both. Greenways only. Will you commute, do you think you are going to need racks for bags. What kind of shifter do you think you will like. And so on. Then we pick a few models that fit or come close to fitting what the person wants. Their idea of what they want may not match the bike they really need to meet the questions they have answered, so they think we are steering them into the bike we want to sell them rather than the bike they want. I am just as likley to talk someone into a cheaper bike as aI am a more expensive one. If a guy wants a carbon road bike to ride with his kids on the greenway, I will steer him away from it towards a comfort bike, at least trying to get him to ride and compare both of them. If a guy plans to do group rides but wants to ride fifteen miles of unpaved road or greenway every day and he is looking at a hybrid I am going to try and upsell him to a cyclocross bike.
As far as marketing goes, there is little support from most vendors, and what there is, is on a national level. local advertising, even daily paper, is pretty expensive. You have to get a return from that investment, doesn't do any good to run a $1000 ad and make a $1000 sale.
A real problem with shops seems to be the employee issue. At our shops the youngest employee is 28. Do you know how hard it is to find a knowledgable person, that will work for $8 an hour and no benefits, that is an adult? It is the rock and a hard place, everybody wants to buy supercheap, but they want fantastic service for that price. It is rare for that to happen. You want labor rates to be $40 on hour then you get a mechanic that will work for $10. Odds are that guy is not as good as the guy that works for $20 but that shop charges $80 an hour.
Most shops hire kids with limited interpersonal skill and a sense of entitlement(Thanks to their parents), and when they deal with someone more than a little older the process grinds to a halt. Same thing with the racerboys, they are a bunch of type-A's with no personal skills. Work a signup for a race or listen in at a tight corner in a crit. They treat everybody poorly. They often are not real bike knowledgable either. Any more than any other athlete knows about the equipment of his sport. But they work cheap, to get the discount most bikeshops offer in lew of any benefit package.

cruentus

Most people I know already own an adult bicycle, or have one available for their use. The majority of Americans will never ride a bicycle as a form of transportation, even it it were practical. Łem in Pa used the term "bum's way of life" to describe how the majority of Americans view non-recreational bicycle use, he's completely correct. Where I live the only people who ride bikes as transportation are DUI's or illegal immigrants.

Even if many people changed their attitudes about bike riding, it is next to impossible for most people to commute to work on a bicycle. Example: I live 10 miles from NYC, so you'd think that riding a bike from my house to the City would be easy. You'd think wrong. There are so many traffic obstacles to overcome from here to there, a person has to risk a gruesome death to accomplish such a feat.

Fact is that the US transportation infrastructure is built around the automobile. Did you know that there are 80,000 people who commute daily from Northeast Pennsylvania to NYC -- average 200 mile round trip -- via Interstate 80? Short of a total meltdown of our petroleum based economy, the bicycle will remain a child's toy, a form of recreation, or a "bum's way of life". All the advertising in the world will not change it.

PaulH

I think traffic congestion and scarcity of parking spaces are the only allies that bike advocacy has. Based on my experience, people will start riding to work only when it is more convenient than driving. The realization that it is fun and good for you will keep people riding, but they first have to start. To start, they need a short trip to work, bumper-to-bumper trafic, and scarce parking. Most cities aren't quite there yet.

Paul

folder fanatic

I agree with cruentus. I am definately not a bum or a DUI driver. I am an adult female who always tried to commute to school or work whenever I had the chance which is getting fewer and fewer as the gridlock traffic increases in my city of Los Angeles. I will maintain my bikes as to weather the coming new Energy Crisis of this century when it finally really happens and the same people cry and moan that they can no longer drive their SUVs anymore.

toolba

The most important component of marketing is not advertising; advertising is simply the most expensive. The most important component is taking proper care of the prospects and customers you currently have (and this costs very little). LBSs fail miserably at this.