And the above is different how?
"I've heard some amazing BS flow from snake oil salesmen working in bike shops"
"I'm yet to find anyone in an LBS that has a clue"
"'service' means 'sell you something for as much $$$ as possible"
" most of them couldn't lie straight in bed"

The above, directly quoted from you, started my response to you. Your post did nothing to benefit the Op either. I refuse to just let some dude make vague insults about what I and my associates do for a living because I am a mod.

Edit; This:"Plus he has nothing to deal with but other Australians, explains the crookedry. Like father, like son." is not a reference to you but to the guys in the shop as you quote, " I've heard some amazing BS flow from snake oil salesmen working in bike shops, I'm yet to find anyone in an LBS that has a clue, most of them couldn't lie straight in bed"

krispistoferson-"I am still curious to this day why I was given the runaround like this."

I believe that it is because, contrary to the few people that believe bike shops rake in hot millions every week, we actually run a very low margin and have to hire guys that will work for cheap. Sometimes we get a good crew, sometimes we get the dumass. sometimes you get a knowitall(They are not just customers) that refuses to ask any one else a question or look it up, and they spout out of their butt. Unless you catch them at it this is hard to correct and they often do poorly when corrected. Then you want to get the boss to fire them. After going thru a case of firing one guy that was incompetent but not so incompetent he couldn't hassle us with a lawyer, you tend to keep the idiot while making his life miserable enough to get him to leave of his own accord, while also correcting him across the room when needed(which I also hate doing)
Small shops don't have a "retreat" for everyone to get to know the product line, we are expected to learn it on our own, usually on our own time.

You put on a dog and pony show like that in my LBS and the owner personally kicks your ass out the door.

It's unfortunate that every cyclist can't walk into any LBS and make a positive connection with the first employee they talk to. It seems like sharing a common interest like cycling would be reaon enough for that to take place. Unforunately that's not the case. Shop employees are as diverse as LBS customers and not everyone is going to hit it off. Sometimes this leads to confrontation. The difference is that LBS employees are held to a standard of professionalism and aren't supposed to let it get personal. There are a few employees that don't meet this standard but that doesn't mean all are bad. Customers only have their own personal standards to hold themselves to and fortunately the vast majority are good people. I think krispistoferson made a very enlightened statement when he said he just doesn't deal with the LBS employee that he doesn't get along with. Unfortunately most shops don't have enough employees to be able to exercise the same option.
There are always going to be customers that don't like certain LBS employees and visa versa. In the end the people that are happiest are those that don't allow a couple bad experiences to cause them to give up on the other. MMACH 5, I'm glad that you found an LBS employee that you like instead of avoiding us all together.

That's funny, I've heard some amazing BS flow from forum types that love to talk about how much more they know than LBS employees. Remember, we're all in it for the vast amount of money that we make and the shear pleasure we derive from knowing we just totally screwed someone. :rolleyes:
The weird thing is I only see these members asking questions in the mechanics' forum, not answering them.

To the OP, as someone else suggested, the Long Haul Trucker is a great ride. Go for the burgundy pearl and you won't regret it. As an added bonus, your shop can custom-build one exactly as you want or take advantage of a more-cost effective pre-built configuration from Surly.

http://www.cheekymonkey.com.au/images/DCP00062.jpg

They're friendly to people that are friendly to them, they're also in your city and offer hands on assistance, something that's hard to get from an online store. Must be a right pain shipping a bike for repairs.

I suppose my first post did leave the impression that I was disgusted with bike shops in general, which is not the case. I do realize that I'm not going to have a positive experience with everyone I deal with, (in any environment, not just in a bike shop).

That being said, it is true that a customer's first impression is the most important. It will shade that person's thought process when dealing with any company.

As I did mention in my second post, I've had many pleasant experiences with the wrenches at this bike shop. Heck, I see one of them on his bike, occasionally, while commuting to work. Being a commuter myself, this tells me that he can relate to my cycling needs.
So, I'm not boycotting this shop, by any means, but I will stear more of my business to the bike shop where I had a very respectful interaction with the sales rep.

I have to admit that I like to frequent a bike shop that is significantly further from my house, just because the owner and employees are so friendly.

Why would a salesman talk you into a bike that costs a little over half the cost of the bike you wanted?

Probably because he didn't have the bike I wanted in stock. The two other bikes were on the floor and ready to sell.

Right, but all he has to do is order it, and sell the other bikes to people that want them, or fall for his bs.

That sort of sums up the frustrations I have with LBSs. They tend to be orientated to recrational riding and don't understand utilitarian riding. Generally I find the mechanics are good, but "chained" in the back some where. Okay, they probably aren't really chained to anything, but I won't get to see them as they are kind of busy. I can understand that and don't have a problem with it. They sales people tend to be younger and less experienced, but either road or mountain bike enthusiasts. Sure there is overlap relating to bicycles, but there are also differences with commuting/utilitarian cycling. But then, the industry as a whole is weak on commuting. But then, why should they when people won't utilitarian cycle. And then an infinite loop develops.

While riding I recall seeing the faces of some bike sales people on road bikes once in a while. But if I saw one commuting/utilitarian riding, that would be my LBS. Until the commuting market segment gets bigger than a blip, I guess it's going to continue to be frustrating.

Aren't commission salespeople helpful? Just full of all the info you don't need! What really grates me is that they will sell you stuff that doesn't even fit simply because its what they have. Be careful out there. bk

I didn't even bother to read this thread, I just wanted to post my two cents. I worked part time at a bike shop for about 6 months, and my customers appreciated my knowledge and top-notch service. But I quit a Porsche/Audi/VW dealership after only 2 weeks.

Go figure.

If cyclaholic is correct in his stated experiences with bike shops, he's visiting the worst of the breed. I know the good Rev. has been in the business and seems to represent the better elements. To my great dissapointment, a bike shop that has been a true "mom & pop" for close to 60 years has recently closed. It was in fact run by mom & pop. The older gentleman had taken it over from his brother many years ago. He and his wife were in late 70's early eighties and decided to retire. I'd been doing business with them and their mechanics for the last 6-7 years. Their mechanics were solid with knowledge and experience with and absolute minimum of BS. Mom & Pop were absolutely great! Seeing them go out of business was almost as sad to me personally, as when Tom Landry passed away. I have no idea where I might take my business in the future.

Though in agreement with cyclaholic, there are too many of the bike shops that represent the dark side.

What do you expect? It's South Florida.

The inability to grasp sarcasm is a sign of autism. Better check that out.

Yea, we all enjoy sarcasm from LBS owners. Makes us want to spend money.

Hmm. Suddenly I smell something. Better check my shoes.

I know this is off-topic, but what on earth is wrong with Trek? I've never seen a single reason to hate them except that they are a big, successful company, which happens to have a diverse line of great products. Furthermore, just because a bike shop sells Treks doesn't mean that it isn't independent. In fact, the fact that Trek is such a big company probably makes it a very appealing choice for a dealer - supply is likely to be readily available, shipped and delivered quickly, and managed professionally. The majority of LBS's in the USA are independently owned small businesses, no? That doesn't mean that the employees and/or proprietors are necessarily going to give better service. I hear about sucky independent LBS's all the time on these boards.

Also, the LHT is available only as a frameset. I don't think that it's unreasonable of some cyclists to want to buy a complete bike and make any upgrades after the fact, rather than having to spec it and build it themselves, or with the help of the shop.

There is nothing wrong with Trek product. As a company, they have a reputation of not protecting the dealers that helped make them the company they are today. This that makes no difference to the consumer, but means something to dealers. They also bank on their "made in USA" a bit much for a comapny that has a fair amount of product made overseas. Nothing wrong with that but it is as misleading as the Spcialized "designed in USA" propaganda.

You hear about sucky LBS from the same fifteen or twenty posters over and over( I have them on a list :), they also tend to gripe about service whereever they go. What is the common denominator? Exercise Occams razor.) Bike Forums has over 15,000 members with only twenty that ***** about shops.
You can get the LHT as a complete bike and all the other Surly bikes.. It is offered that way thru Quality, and you can alter spec. I even tried to talk a guy into the complete bike last year as it would save him some money, but he wanted to build up a bike from scratch

im sure you guys will hear me bragging about this place a LOT in the future, but here I go again....

Pedal Play on Plank Rd in Baton Rouge. The owner is Scott Mackey...who is a well-known mechanic who pits for Kona's pro team.

I had the single best experience I have ever had while shopping for a bike at his store. He actually got the bike I was interested in and two chairs. He propped the bike up infront of us, and started explaining EVERYTHING about the bike in detail...right down the brand name of the shift cables...and he knew it by HEART.

He then went on to explain how the bike can be adjusted to my liking, and said that when my bike comes in, he recommends I use it as he'll have it set up for 15-20 hours of ride-time in order for the Marzocchi fork to break in along with the Fox rear shock. He said he would explain it a million times if that's what it took for me to COMPLETELY understand how the bike works...but that he would adjust anything I wanted for free anytime I had a problem.

From start to finish, he spent WELL over 1 1/2 hours talking to me about this ONE bike, making absolute sure it is what I wanted/needed. He then did a custom fitting, and placed the order for the bike with the replacement parts.

He said the bike would arrive at his shop the middle of next week, and he would call me just in case I wanted to come by to see him put it together, which he said would take a few days...but I was more than welcome to come by every day if I wanted.

He said I could see how the forks are assembled and aired up, etc etc

Seriously, even if the Kona wouldn't have been a brand name I was interested in, I would have ended up buying a bike from him based SOLELY upon the fact that he is DEAD SERIOUS about making his customers happy.

His quote "I don't care if you spend $200 on a bike, or $8000 on a bike...you get treated the SAME way. That $200 was money you could have spent somewhere ELSE."

THIS is a bike shop I can patronize.

Been there, done that. One of the shops where we lived in Australia tried to explain to me the basics of frame materials and groups, as well as disc brakes for MTBs. Silly me, I just quietly nodded, with a blank look on my face. We ran into him a bit later at a charity event. We were on our $10k custom titanium tandem, complete with titanium disc brakes at the time. Yeah, thanks for talking down to me, matey! :D

Also, the Rev has no idea what it's like in Australia. The quality of service is as varied as in the US, but the prices really, really suck.

I have a cattle dog and he told me everything.

Every wrench/shop-owner that I've found worth their salt has had a pretty good sense of gallows humor.

If they don't, they're either new or deluded.

OK, I've taken some time to reflect on my original post and the flurry of responses it led to.

First of all I want to offer an apology to all that I offended, including you Rev Chuck. Yes, I was out of line in how I worded my post and I can see how it was offensive to those of you in the industry that strive to rise above mediocrity. To you I apologise.

In the way of clarification (not trying to make excuses, just explain my position), I can only say that it was a reaction to a string of bad experiences I've had with the few nearby LBS's here, so my LBS experience doesn't gel with what I read in these forums with regards to standards of service and product knowledge that one would expect. in future I'll endeavour to be more factual and less reactive.

I still think some of those responses were out of line, but what the hell, it's only an online forun after all.