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Chemical Weapons

Old 01-29-03, 06:51 PM
  #1  
amerpie
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Chemical Weapons

I have Miniature Daschunds as pets. They stand all of four inches tall and weigh about nine lbs. Once, one of my kids accidently left the front door open and one of my dogs ran into the front yard, violating my cities leash law all to hell.

Then, the little demon dared to bark at a cyclist, who happened to be a member of the 82nd Airborne, America's Guard of Honor. He immediately pulled out his can of HALT and sprayed my dog with CS spray, which is what HALT is and what the UN classifies as chemical weapon.

I often ride in rural areas. I've been chased by Great Danes, St. Bernards and nearly everything smaller. I understand the frustration of cyclists bothered by the pets of scofflaws. What I can't understand is the irrational hatred some folks display at dogs. My god, if you can't out run a d_mn weiner dog, then you need to retire.
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Old 01-29-03, 06:59 PM
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That's the kind of Soldier that we should be sending to Iraq, then we can give Saddam a clear message that he F$&+++@ck with the U.S. OF A
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Old 01-29-03, 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by amerpie
I understand the frustration of cyclists bothered by the pets of scofflaws. What I can't understand is the irrational hatred some folks display at dogs. My god, if you can't out run a d_mn weiner dog, then you need to retire.
It doesn't seem like irrational hatred if you have ever had a dog take some flesh off of your leg.

Hatred? I dunno about that, but irrational? No. It's rational.
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Old 01-29-03, 07:17 PM
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I've been bitten by a collie on my paper route , when I was kid in New Bern, NC in the 70's. You know, I had to ride the very same street the very next day. I was 12.

Was I scared? YES. Was there a way to deal with this without hurting the dog? YES.

If you like chemical weapons, find the owner of the scary monster and spray him with CS.


BTW, when I was young enlisted man defending the US against Gorbachev and the Evil Empire, I got to experience CS gas. I got to do it again when I went through the NC Justice Academy after I got out of the Army. Like I said, if you can't out run a weiner dog...
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Old 01-29-03, 09:11 PM
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There are only two kinds of dog- the ones that already bit you and the ones that are gonna bite you :-)
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Old 01-29-03, 11:29 PM
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Its best to have the dogs bite you when they are puppies. Then its over and you can enjoy them as pets. Then the other bites are most likely unintentional.

Can the same thing be said about women you date?
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Old 01-30-03, 12:07 AM
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hold on a second there, let me just get this out of my system: MINIATURE DACHSHUNDS!?!?!?!?!?!?

sorry. I'm not really a dog person. ;-)

anyhow, you know there's just no getting around this kind of thing. if you're the pet owner, it's pretty hard to see your pet as anything other than your sweet woofster. I mean, this time it was a miniature, umn, dachshund, but you hear the same thing from Rottie owners. and on the other end of the spectrum there's the people who are only aware of the possible threat.

in this very particular case I agree, yeah, the guy should've kept a cap on it. I've let slide a hell of a lot worse than a little barking.

-alex.

p.s. I'm sorry man, I just couldn't help being nonplussed at the image of a miniature one of those dogs. no hard feelings, I hope.

from the akc:

https://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/dach.cfm

Teeth--Powerful canine teeth; teeth fit closely together in a scissors bite.
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Old 01-30-03, 05:48 AM
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Gee wizzz!!!

This sounds like a case of "have gun will travel"! I have the HALT!, send out the dog! I've got the gun"power" now if I just had something to shoot!!!!

I cary a frame pump and have only had to weild it once or twice. Usually just the sight of a "stick" is enough to back off dogs with anything but the most foul intentions. I just can't immagine being so insecure that you NEED to spray this breed of dog.

Don't get me wrong on this. I am a dog owner and a bike rider I feel for you.
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Old 01-30-03, 06:56 AM
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I agree, this was a little overboard but I have to say most of the dogs I've been bitten by have been little ankle biters. I think they try to make up for their size with attitude. I would be concerned if a little dog came after me only because it would be ugly if he bit the front tire.

I'm going to leave all the soldier smart remarks alone for now.
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Old 01-30-03, 07:25 AM
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The scariest dog situation I've ever encountered occured just as I crested a tough hill....There, in the middle of the road, almost like they were waiting for me, was a pack of roaming dogs. I was out of breath, my legs hurt, my water was gone. I looked at those dogs and thought, "this is the end." Luckily it wasn't, I woofed at them and they ran off...
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Old 01-30-03, 07:39 AM
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As a dog owner (my two Vizsla's don't react to bikes - other than pick up their ears at the sound of Honda V four motorcycle engines- go figure) I think the guy overreacted.

Easiest way to avoid a Dachsi is to cycle away from it. Those little legs top out at about 10 mph.

Now if it was a big dog chasing you (I once got chased by a greyhound and nearly popped both knee joints trying to get away, before buckling a wheel when I crashed into the kerb) I think suggested advice is to get off the bike and put the bike between you and the dog.

Most dogs seem to react to the sound of a bike, and this may stop them.

I think the guy didn't use "reasonable force" but just wanted to use his spray.
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Old 01-30-03, 09:17 AM
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The greatest danger with dogs is not that you might get bitten, but that they will take you down. In our club, by far the greatest problem is crashes caused by dogs.

I have a right to be able to peaceably ride down the public roadway without being attacked or otherwise harrassed by your dog. People DIE from crashes caused by dogs--it happens every year. If you cannot keep your dog from chasing cyclists, then you are in irresponsible owner. So stop whining and accept that you screwed up.

Of course, the problem is not the dog that is doing what comes naturally, but the owner. However, a solution is to "train" the dog that chasing cyclists is not a good idea.

Dave
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Old 01-30-03, 09:26 AM
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The four legged animals worry me a lot less than the two legged kind. I ride early in the morning and have in fact been threatened by individuals driving past me and subsequently slowing down - fortunatly nothing happened. Nonetheless I can understand why someone may carry something for protection. I have a CWP and carry a cellphone as well as as something to protect myself should I have no other way out.

Unfortunately the world is not a very friendly place.

Regards,

~Michael~
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Old 01-30-03, 09:45 AM
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The issue may not have been that the cyclist was afraid of a bite. He may have been afraid of crashing into your dog - if not this time, then the next time he rides by. I state this because I was involved in a similar situation. In my case the dog was large, but my concern was more with crashing (and the subsequent biting) into the dog.

I was humming down a 2 lane road when this dog appeared out from behind a row of bushes. There was no opportunity to stop, only to brake and swerve. Unfortunately for me, there were 3 cars comming @ me in the other lane - so swerving wasn't much of an option. I ended up, through either luck or divine intervention, slipping between the dog and the oncoming cars.

I had HALT with me, but there was no opportunity to use it. However, I always ride very slow by the house (I also visited the dog owner the evening of the incident) now, and have my HALT ready.

I do understand your feeling as your dogs are so small. However, in my case, the size of the dog wasn't the primary issue. I can most likely survive a dog bite, but I certainly wasn't going to survive a head-on crash with a motor vehicle.
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Old 01-30-03, 09:54 AM
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I don't think your pet was damaged in any way. Also you might consider that almost everyone, does not share your view of dogs in general or your dog in particular.

My general rule is that if an unknown and unrestrained dog comes within six feet of me, I will spray it with pepper spray. If the dog is known to me to be harmless or can easily be avoided, then I refrain. Also, even if an animal is on a leash, if the owner does not have it under control, I have used spray in this case as well. I do this because the downside is a trip to the emergency room for me, and pepper spray causes no damage to the dog.

If your pet had gone under the wheels of the bicycle, it could have been seriously injured or killed. I think your neighbor did you a favor by preventing this at no cost to the dog or yourself, possibly the dog actually learned something.

regards
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Old 01-30-03, 10:05 AM
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In my opinion, spraying your small dog was an overreaction/unnecessary. The majority of dogs I encounter stay on their property, but some like to run alongside me and bark for a short distance. They're kind are fun once you "get to know them." However, I pass one residence that has a rottweiler chained/restrained in the front yard. I pray the chain/cable never breaks and that he is always restrained. He has made it clear that he is not fond of me, and I don't think he would be the kind to run alongside and bark.

At the end of the day, I hope your dog learned something and will not be a "repeat offender"
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Old 01-30-03, 10:11 AM
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Actually that (see above) is just what I was thinking. Dog nows equates a bad feeling with chasing bicycles. Next time he'll think twice about chasing one. If all dogs got hit with HALT (I don't even know what it is) or Pepper Spray when they chased a bike then they probably wouldn't chase bikes anymore. By the way I like dogs a lot so I'm not just one of these guys that's afraid of them or anything.
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Old 01-30-03, 10:24 AM
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If dog chases a bicyclist and gets sprayed or clobbered with a bicycle pump or if the dog gets hit by a car, the person at fault is the pet owner. Size of the animal does not matter. When a person gets bit by any dog or even a cat or a mouse, they have the agonizing decision to either get painful rabies shots or take the risk of getting rabies.

It is unreasonable to expect a pedestrian or bicyclist to treat your unknown dog with any degree of friendliness, especially if it bares it's teeth, barks, or chases.

If your dog gets hurt because it is not on a leash, it is YOUR fault.
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Old 01-30-03, 10:28 AM
  #19  
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Originally posted by amerpie
I have Miniature Daschunds as pets.
Miniature??
My mother had two "regular-sized" daschunds and they couldn't run fast enough to catch up with their own shadows.
I'm sure a miniature would run about as fast.


If you see the guy again spray him with CS spray or gasoline or whatever is handy.
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Old 01-30-03, 10:29 AM
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During the 1st World War, when all things Germanic were frowned upon, people used to kick Dacshunds in the street to show their patriotism.
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Old 01-30-03, 10:59 AM
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For the "I've Got a Chip on My Shoulder Crowd"

1) See the original post to learn that I don't let my dogs run loose. One of my kids left the door open and the dog got out accidently. Perhaps your children never do things like this. You're lucky

2) See the original post to learn that I too have been chased by dogs, big ones. I know that dogs can bite. I know that dogs can cause you to crash.

3) See the original post to learn that I don't like scofflaws who disobey leash laws.

And for the guy who told me to stop whining, I bet you drive an SUV, vote Republican, are a member of the NRA, and never, ever talk as rough to people in real life as you do on the Internet.
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Old 01-30-03, 11:04 AM
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I encounter dogs frequently on my commute to work. Frequently, they just enjoy barking at me but a couple of times I have had to use my pepper spary. I bought a product designed specifically to combat a canine threat as it launches in a narrow stream rather than in a fog. The irritant is mixed with a binding agent to make sure it adheres to the dog's nose, face, and eyes. It is important to note that this is a NON-LETHAL weapon. The dog will most likely not suffer any permanent physical damage, especially since it is water soluable. Fortunately, I've only had to use it twice and in each case it stopped the dog in its tracks. An interesting side effect which I had not anticipated but appreciate is that of the two dogs I sprayed, I see one of them frequently still and as soon as he sees me, he turns and runs the other way.
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Old 01-30-03, 11:12 AM
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Boy, he must have been a b*tt-slow cyclist if the critter even got close enough to get sprayed.

I was on a group ride where one rider crashed another rider by swerving around trying to squirt the cat-sized dog that had come out to the road to see what was going on. If he'd just held his line and headed up the road, we would have been gone before the dog even got close.
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Old 01-30-03, 12:10 PM
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I understand your frustration, but I'll bet the dog learned a potentially life-saving lesson. The problem isn't that the man would/could have been hurt; it's the child who panics when a dog barks and runs at him and swerves into the street. That guy did a kid a favor by perhaps teaching your dog not to chase bicycles.

My preferred method for dealing with a bicyle chasing dog is to just say NO! in a clear voice. I find that's usually sufficient to stop an animal because they're reacting more on instinct than hate. They're chasing becuase you're running. That's something that needs to be trained out of the animal, even if he is a housedog that doesn't normally get out. The 9-year girl old that he chases doesn't understand or care that the dog means her no harm. She panics and swerves into traffic.
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Old 01-30-03, 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by amerpie
For the "I've Got a Chip on My Shoulder Crowd"


And for the guy who told me to stop whining, I bet you drive an SUV, vote Republican, are a member of the NRA, and never, ever talk as rough to people in real life as you do on the Internet.
For the record:

I don't own an SUV and I commute by bike.

I vote for whomever I think will do the best job regardless of party affliation.

I have never been a member of the NRA.

And I would've talked to you a lot worse if I'd have been the one that your dog chased.

I have been taken down by dogs and suffer a permanent shoulder injury as a result. I also know one that was killed due to a dog-bike crash. I have also witnessed at least 4 dog-bike crashes on club rides over the past year. I also once saw a dog get killed by a car while chasing cyclists.

Even if this was an isolated incident due to your children, the rider had no way of knowing that. His life was unnecessarily put at risk by your animal. Your dog was not in any way permanently harmed, an may have learned a lesson that will (1) keep it from getting run over by a car, (2) keep you from getting sued, and (3) maybe save someone's life.

So piss off.

Dave
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