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Why No Love For Utility Bikes?

Old 08-04-06, 08:56 AM
  #76  
Don Johnson
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Check these out:
http://www.dutchbikes.us
http://www.workcycles.com/workbike/index.html
http://www.sunbicycles.com/sun/bicyc.../atlasBike.htm

and as already posted:
http://www.worksman.com

There's also:
http://zerocouriers.com/workbike/
Not a manufacturer of utility bikes but has some good links.

To make about any bike more utilitarian:
http://bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/

I'm certainly not an expert in transportatin issues and the following are just my opinions, but I think there are a few basic problems, not the least of which is that (in the US) a good bike well outfitted for general purpose either costs too much (in the eye's of the public) or is made of cheap components that don't last. Add to that an infrastructure that completely caters to the automobile, subsidized gasoline prices (in the form of tax breaks to the oil corp's) that promote driving over walking/cycling and the notion that, to most Americans, a bike is just a toy and the the "problem" just gets larger. I think that if the general public (in the US) viewed cycling as a viable means of transportation (both for personnel and commerce) we'd see more of these utility bikes from many more manufacturers and at a more reasonable cost.

Maybe we'll see a Cadillac SUB that you can finance through GMAC or a Lincoln Townbike someday.
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Old 08-04-06, 09:08 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Don Johnson

I'm certainly not an expert in transportatin issues and the following are just my opinions, but I think there are a few basic problems, not the least of which is that (in the US) a good bike well outfitted for general purpose either costs too much (in the eye's of the public) or is made of cheap components that don't last. Add to that an infrastructure that completely caters to the automobile, subsidized gasoline prices (in the form of tax breaks to the oil corp's) that promote driving over walking/cycling and the notion that, to most Americans, a bike is just a toy and the the "problem" just gets larger. I think that if the general public (in the US) viewed cycling as a viable means of transportation (both for personnel and commerce) we'd see more of these utility bikes from many more manufacturers and at a more reasonable cost.
Yes, what we're talking about is the cycling "paradigm" in America that has been cultivated by cheap
fuel and suburbia that "bikes-r-toys" for kids and sport bikers. The rest of the world has the different
"paradigm" that "bikes-r-transportation". When THAT "paradigm" changes , and it will in time, utility
bikes in America will be welcomed, and used, the same as the rest of the world.

In the mean time the savvy & wise will start to conserve as much as possible by using bikes more.
Bikes are not a cure all but they are a sane safe approach to conservation that all can practice to
forestall that day of reckoning when the oil does run out. Increased bike use will also allow more
time to devlope fuels & energy sources that are not fossil fuel base.
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Old 08-04-06, 12:11 PM
  #78  
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Things were not always thus. I found this photo from a family trip in 1971. Look at my parent's bikes--sturdy steel fitted frames, fenders, racks and baskets. Utility bikes were the norm for adults. You don't see toe clips or fenderless wheels or handlebars for racing or tiny racing seats or huge tires with knobs on them.

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Old 08-04-06, 08:32 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Old Dirt Hill
Hate to quote myself, but can someone clarify this for me? Is a touring bike essentially a utility bike that one rides for a tour? Would it be safe to say that most touring bikes qualify as utility bikes, but most utility bikes aren't touring bikes?
No, touring bikes are definitely not utility bikes. They can be used as very effective utility bikes (a touring bike is my ride of choice for all my car-free cycling needs), but a touring bike is still a type of sport bicycle, albeit a more comfortable, practical sport bicycle. Few stock touring bikes come with racks and fenders installed. A utility bike, by definition, includes these features. And in spite of their more relaxed angles and higher handlebars, touring bikes still generally have road geometry and features. They are designed, after all, for covering long distances comfortably but efficiently. Utility bikes are more upright, with even slacker frame angles. They are designed to cover short distances comfortably, usually with an average speed of below 10 MPH. I ride faster than this, but I'm an enthusiast. Most utility cyclists are not. Touring bicycles generally have extremely wide-range derailer gearing. This is overkill in a big way for a utility bicycle, which is ideally equipped with near-zero maintenance internal hub gearing, or even just a single speed. Coaster brakes are a nice plus, too.

When it comes right down to it, a touring bike can be very utilitarian if it needs to be, but to say that it therefore counts as a "utility bike" broadens the definition of what a utility bike is to the point near uselessness. A touring bike is still designed, first and foremost, for recreation. Touring isn't a job, and it isn't necessary, although it can be an incredible experience. A utility bike is designed with one purpose in mind: getting the rider from point A to point B with the minimum of muss, fuss and excitement along the way.
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Old 08-04-06, 08:35 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
Again, it is about demand. If there was sufficient demand for these utility bikes they would be selling them...
And I would contend that "they would be selling them" is an exact description of what Electra does with their "Townie" line. The Townies are very upscale utility bikes, to be sure, but their popularity argues for significant demand in that sector.

Road bikes probably outsell all other styles of bike by a 10 to one ratio (or more), by my uneducated guess, but the specialty segments of MTBs, BMXers, tourers, cruisers, recumbents, trikes, and "utility bikes" are still viable and profitable. How can I tell? If they weren't profitable, none would be available.
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Old 08-04-06, 10:03 PM
  #81  
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You can easily make a utility bike out of a lot of different bikes: touring, rigid tail MTB, hybrid etc. A lot of people do this. What bugs me about this topic is how a specic style of internal hub European bike with a specific set of bells and whistles has come to define utility. Add a rack, fenders, and a pair of blinkies to a run of the mill hybrid bike and you have the functional equivalent of a European utility bike. Double diamond frames, which most bikes are based on, are pretty generic. Other than strength, quality, weight, and some nuances in geometry the only difference is the bells and whistles that get attached to them. I find it interesting that people talk about utility and practicality but need somewhat hard to find (in the US at least) gadgets like internal hubs and dynamo lights to achieve this.

Last edited by robmcl; 08-04-06 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 08-04-06, 10:35 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by grolby
When it comes right down to it, a touring bike can be very utilitarian if it needs to be, but to say that it therefore counts as a "utility bike" broadens the definition of what a utility bike is to the point near uselessness.
This is where I have a problem. True utility biking in the US is more diverse and much more messier to define. For example, I would include commuting as a utility type activity and in some situations a touring bike might be very desirable. This concept of the "utility bike" seems to originate in Holland, which is a tiny country with a ****genous terrain. In the US I don't think there is a one size fits all bike for utility and commuting.
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Old 08-04-06, 11:20 PM
  #83  
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Utility Bikes would be a great new forum. Hopefully gasoline will continue to get more expensive and folks will rekindle their love affair with utility bikes. For me, one of the best things about running a bike shop is helping a customer turn his/her bike into comfortable, useful transportation - installing lights, fenders, sidestand, racks, baskets, chain guard, sprung saddle, upright handlebars, flat resistant tires/tubes, swapping out the suspension fork for a rigid one, converting to a single chainring, etc. In the best case they opt for an Extracycle conversion with an internal geared hub and hub brakes, or if they live in flat country, a coaster brake single speed rear hub (The bliss of no brake handles, shifters, or cables). Such bikes are a joy to ride and, in my experience, will turn more heads than any other type of bicycle.

What do you say, Joe? How about trying a "Utility Bike" forum.
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Old 08-05-06, 03:32 AM
  #84  
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I'd like to see a new forum as well.

Also, I don't know where people get the idea that utility bikes come from Holland. 90% of them are in Asia, and among European nations you can find them in use from the low countries to Switzerland. But in the US you're supposed to shut the hell up and just buy a mountain bike because that's what's for sale.

the US I don't think there is a one size fits all bike
Yet that's pretty much what gets shoved down our gullets at the LBS's. Virtually all bikes here are made and sold with the underlying assumption that they will be used for RECREATION. That goes for beach cruisers, touring bikes, road bikes, mountain bikes, and all the rest. There are a growing number of commuter bikes, but these tend to be little more than road bikes with (shock!) fenders on them.

As far as what makes a utility bike, here are my thoughts:

--Inexpensive
--Easy to repair
--Simple gearing, usually internal
--Sturdy steel frame
--Racks, baskets, fenders and the capacity to haul significant cargo
--Made for general work or transport rather than for speciality recreation

Last edited by Cosmoline; 08-05-06 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 08-05-06, 06:59 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Cosmoline
I'd like to see a new forum as well.

Also, I don't know where people get the idea that utility bikes come from Holland. 90% of them are in Asia, and among European nations you can find them in use from the low countries to Switzerland. But in the US you're supposed to shut the hell up and just buy a mountain bike because that's what's for sale.
That's funny because when I first saw some of the Breezer bikes and the REI Transfer I thought they were more or less rigid tail MTBs with internal hubs dressed up with fenders, racks, and lights.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:36 AM
  #86  
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I don't think we need a new forum about adding fenders, racks, and lights to bikes. The Commuter Forum already covers this. BTW do you guys ever look at the picture thread on that forum? It is full of practical, utilitarian, working bikes.
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Old 08-05-06, 09:23 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by gruppo
What do you say, Joe? How about trying a "Utility Bike" forum.
+1 on the Utilty Bike forum.

There's a lot to talk about there that overlaps Living Car Free and Commuting that deserves its own place, such as heavy loads, bicycle power generation (electricity, drive machinery, etc.), business vehicles for street vendors and product delivery, and general bicycle oriented substitutions for powered machinery.
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Old 08-05-06, 09:25 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by robmcl
You can easily make a utility bike out of a lot of different bikes: touring, rigid tail MTB, hybrid etc. A lot of people do this. What bugs me about this topic is how a specic style of internal hub European bike with a specific set of bells and whistles has come to define utility. Add a rack, fenders, and a pair of blinkies to a run of the mill hybrid bike and you have the functional equivalent of a European utility bike. Double diamond frames, which most bikes are based on, are pretty generic. Other than strength, quality, weight, and some nuances in geometry the only difference is the bells and whistles that get attached to them. I find it interesting that people talk about utility and practicality but need somewhat hard to find (in the US at least) gadgets like internal hubs and dynamo lights to achieve this.
I agree. I think "utility" is defined by the user. Defining "utility bikes" by a Dutch standard is silly, as does any notion of a "true utility bike". Those Dutch bikes would be anything but ideal here in hilly western MA. They are great for pancake flat Amsterdam, though. Some of the import outfits people are linking to seem like a rook to me. Gas pipe frames and generic parts for high end prices. No thanks.
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Old 08-05-06, 03:39 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by barba
I agree. I think "utility" is defined by the user. Defining "utility bikes" by a Dutch standard is silly, as does any notion of a "true utility bike". Those Dutch bikes would be anything but ideal here in hilly western MA. They are great for pancake flat Amsterdam, though. Some of the import outfits people are linking to seem like a rook to me. Gas pipe frames and generic parts for high end prices. No thanks.
I live in Western MA too, and I've been riding a 3-speed while I assemble the various bits and pieces for a new Surly LHT commuter and touring bike. I've found it to be adequate for getting around town. Admittedly, the terrain gets much hillier and unpleasant to ride as you get away from the river valley, but at that point we're looking at distances for which utility bikes are basically unsuitable anyway. For getting around towns in the Amherst, Northampton, Springfield area, Dutch-style utility bikes are actually pretty darn good. They aren't so hot for traveling between those towns, but utility bikes aren't designed for that kind of travel anyway. I think the definition sticks pretty well. Only enthusiasts are really interested in traveling far enough on a regular basis to need anything else anyway. So for me, a touring bike is really the most utilitarian choice. But is a touring bike really a utility bike? Uh, no, I don't think so. Just about anything could be a utility bike under this definition, and I don't think that this makes any sense. We're trying to talk about a certain type of bike that comes equipped in a certain way, usually in a certain price bracket. It doesn't make sense to call these bicycles anything but utility bikes, and it doesn't make any sense to call other bicycles utility bikes simply because they can be made similarly useful.
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Old 08-05-06, 05:13 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by grolby
I live in Western MA too, and I've been riding a 3-speed while I assemble the various bits and pieces for a new Surly LHT commuter and touring bike. I've found it to be adequate for getting around town. Admittedly, the terrain gets much hillier and unpleasant to ride as you get away from the river valley, but at that point we're looking at distances for which utility bikes are basically unsuitable anyway. For getting around towns in the Amherst, Northampton, Springfield area, Dutch-style utility bikes are actually pretty darn good. They aren't so hot for traveling between those towns, but utility bikes aren't designed for that kind of travel anyway. I think the definition sticks pretty well. Only enthusiasts are really interested in traveling far enough on a regular basis to need anything else anyway. So for me, a touring bike is really the most utilitarian choice. But is a touring bike really a utility bike? Uh, no, I don't think so. Just about anything could be a utility bike under this definition, and I don't think that this makes any sense. We're trying to talk about a certain type of bike that comes equipped in a certain way, usually in a certain price bracket. It doesn't make sense to call these bicycles anything but utility bikes, and it doesn't make any sense to call other bicycles utility bikes simply because they can be made similarly useful.
Grolby that sounds like a nice bike. When people talk about utility bikes I wish they would make a distinction between utility and the specific internal geared bike they are talking about. When people say there are few utility bikes in this country it sounds really crazy because there are many functionally equivalent utility bikes around in many shapes and forms. They really mean there are few INTERNAL GEARED utility bikes around. That's why I said in the other thread that love for the utility bike really means love for the internal geared bike and that the new forum should be called the internal geared forum. I just think it would make what you guys have in mind clearer. Otherwise is not a hybrid bike with rack/baskets, fenders, and lights a utility bike? There are lots of hybrid bikes around and it is a simple matter of properly equipping them.
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Old 08-07-06, 10:48 AM
  #91  
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And I would contend that "they would be selling them" is an exact description of what Electra does with their "Townie" line. The Townies are very upscale utility bikes, to be sure, but their popularity argues for significant demand in that sector.
Okay, so what are you complaining about? Not that I have ever seen anyone riding a Townie. But as you mention they are upscale. Those in this thread seem to be refering to inexpensive bikes. I don't think Townie qualifies.

Was looking at the Fuji website and they have numerous utility bikes, but they were not available in the US. They were upright, comfy seats, complete with racks, fenders, and lights. If they are already making them, why wouldn't they sell them in the US? Oh, that's right DEMAND. Or should I say, lack of demand.

I think people who use their bikes for ultilitarian purposes are fantastic. It is wonderful both healthwise and for the environment. There just isn't a demand for it(US). At least not now.
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Old 08-10-06, 12:58 AM
  #92  
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there are hella old Korean war era utility bikes that ppl still use around here in korea. there's usually the plastic crate strapped on the back. and the kickstand is this big rectangular frame that goes under the back wheel to stand it up.
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Old 08-10-06, 04:34 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
Okay, so what are you complaining about?...Was looking at the Fuji website and they have numerous utility bikes...why wouldn't they sell them in the US?...I say, lack of demand...
Hi slowandsteady!

If you think that I'm complaining, you've got the wrong person!
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Old 08-10-06, 08:23 PM
  #94  
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I live near the beach; there are a lot of utility bikes. Most are beach cruisers - the temperature is pretty mild so fenders are not normally needed. The next most popular style are rigid mountain bikes.

A lot of the bikes have front baskets. Both of ours have them. My bike is a late '90s Schwinn single speed cruiser. My wife has an Electra Sunny Garcia with the 7 speed Nexus. Both bikes have quick release seat post bolts so we can use either one or loan them to visitors.

$1K utility bikes are great but it's easy to find something used and it's pretty flat so you don't need gearing. My sister in law came to visit us last year so we picked up an old Schwinn cruiser at the swap meet for $30, cleaned it, used it for a couple of weeks and then sold it at a yard sale. Because of the level terrain, single speeds are fine. I had to push mine up a hill once but only because I got to far forward on the pedal and my flip flop scraped the pavement, breaking my momentum. I also had a cup of coffee in my hand and didn't want to spill it.

Bikes are needed here because the traffic is terrible. It takes the same amount of time for me to cycle or drive to work. I see other people doing the same thing.
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Old 08-11-06, 09:11 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
If they are already making them, why wouldn't they sell them in the US? Oh, that's right DEMAND. Or should I say, lack of demand.
Not necessarily.

Despite an enthusiastic demand for smaller, economical pickup trucks, American manufacturers refused to make them, or market them through their dealers (even when made overseas)for an entire decade (the 1970's). Japanese manufacturers sold their small pickups here by the boatload.

As far as reasonably priced utility bicycles that are sold everywhere else by the zillions, North American bicycle wholesalers, distributers and retailers for the most part refuse to offer, promote, market, stock or sell such bikes regardless of demand.
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