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Are Taiwanese Bikes Made By Slaves?

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Are Taiwanese Bikes Made By Slaves?

Old 01-17-07, 07:34 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by boyet
They are not slaves. but workers earned for a living.
Much like the rest of us.

I wonder if the OP would consider retail workers and fast-food restaurant workers who get minimum wage to be slaves too.
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Old 01-18-07, 12:20 AM
  #102  
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Answering the original question with the seriousness which it so obviously deserves:

Taiwanese bikes are made by robots with lasers. The only reason we buy Taiwanese bikes is to keep the robots busy, otherwise they will invade us all and make us watch Chinese soap operas.

Last edited by womble; 01-23-07 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 01-18-07, 01:00 AM
  #103  
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China=Us 200 years ago
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Old 01-18-07, 03:03 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by sdime
While trying to find a budget bikes made in the good 'ol US of A by skilled American craftsmen, I see nothing but Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese bikes on the market. I am a firm believer in supporting American labor; therefore, Wallymart and places as such are not my favorite places to shop. Besides, workers in Asia are treated like slaves, and buying more slave-made product would just encourage more slave-like working conditions. Are bike workers in Asia subjected to similar slave-like conditions as their comrades in other industries? If so, I'd really hate to contribute a couple hundred bux to the slave drivers, but I can't afford a thousand dollar bike made in Wisconsin either. What a dilema!
Sorry Grendall, they use free people, slaves are too expensive to use on those bikes.
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Old 01-18-07, 10:56 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Shortrider06
China=Us 200 years ago
This is the most bigoted and ignorant statement i've ever read on bikeforums. You sir are a ****ing troll
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Old 01-18-07, 02:58 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Shortrider06
China=Us 200 years ago
And of course the entire country is exactly the same. Some people think that all Americans carry guns and look like Jed Clampit. China is a very large country and has much diversity. I am sure your statement is true for parts of China just like parts of the US = US 200 years ago, just look in some parts of Pennsylvania for starters. Anyway, this all reminds me of what I find humorous about the Star Wars series, every planet or Moon has one climate and one or two predominate cultures. Too funny but people think that way as proven above.
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Old 01-18-07, 03:27 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by sdime
If you take a snapshot of life over there, like you have done, life might not seem too bad--a place a live and enough food to eat. However, we should also look at children of these workers and the prospect for the workers a few years down the road. Many Chinese workers are from the country side, and they can't afford child care and schooling for their kids. As a result, they leave their children behind in the villages to be taken care of by grandma and grandpa. They would only see their kids once a year for two weeks during the new year holiday. Would you want to see your kids only once a year? Would you want your parents raising your kid? Who knows what bad effect this would have for the little ones.
You are trying apply western standards to a culture you know nothing about. It is a very close knit family unit. Parents go out to work (farms, now factories) kids stay behind with other family members. Nothing really have changed now that hey are working in evil factories. Also what is wrong with kids being raised by family. You really think they are better of being raised by television, computers, gaming consoles, or total strangers in day care like in America? Schooling in China is very good for those who are smart enough and have enough dedication and are willing to work hard for it.
Also, what do you think happens to the workers as they get older? You think you are protected by labor laws. Probably not. Employers have been documented to fire older workers in order to hire young workers because they are stronger, can see better, and can work faster. What would these older, now laid-off workers do then? They would be completely screwed because they don't have much savings. Difficult to have savings when you only making $2 an day. People say things will get better. The way I see it, things can only get worse. The rich will get richer; the poor will get poorer. When there are so many poor people, there will be tremendous social upheaval if the poor decide they had enough and they would stand up for their human rights.
How is it different from what is happening in the US? Take an average worker with no high school education, or just with high school education, and see how well off they are. As someone mentioned it is all relative. Again you miss the fact that it takes less to live on there that it does here. Personally I consider myself a middle class,64k a year before tax, and half my pay check is going to just pay my rent. After food, transportation (I commute on a bycicle to save costs), doesn't leave a whole lot for savings.
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Old 01-18-07, 08:32 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Shiznaz

don't worry, he's good. American Jewish female made bikes, and you better believe they are well compensated.
I have nothing to add to this discussion.
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Old 01-18-07, 10:21 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by womble
Taiwanese bikes are made by robots with lasers. The only reason we buy Taiwanese bikes is to keep the robots busy, otherwise they will invade us all and listen watch Chinese soap operas.
You can close this thread now, an insightful post has finally been made.
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Old 01-24-07, 10:03 AM
  #110  
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China and Taiwan are different nation-states and very different economies! I asked a similar question a few years ago of a bike business lifer that I know--he said that Taiwan and Italy have roughly similar wages in the bike manufacturing sector. Taiwan in general is a more advanced, higher-wage economy than Italy. Hmmm, think I'll ride the made-in-Taiwan Battaglin to work today!
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Old 01-25-07, 03:40 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by operator
This is the most bigoted and ignorant statement i've ever read on bikeforums. You sir are a ****ing troll
The statement is neither bigoted nor ignorant. Your response, on the other hand, is not well thought out. He is contrasting their economy, today, to ours 200 years ago.

200 years ago, the US was primarily an agrarian society. We were on the verge of becoming an industrial and military power house. This is exactly where China is today.



Tim
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Old 01-25-07, 11:27 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by cs1
200 years ago, the US was primarily an agrarian society. We were on the verge of becoming an industrial and military power house. This is exactly where China is today.
Chinese fly to space, don't they?
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Old 01-25-07, 01:49 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by cs1
The statement is neither bigoted nor ignorant. Your response, on the other hand, is not well thought out. He is contrasting their economy, today, to ours 200 years ago.

200 years ago, the US was primarily an agrarian society. We were on the verge of becoming an industrial and military power house. This is exactly where China is today.

Tim
In 1807 the US was a long way from being an industrial & military powerhouse. The US was a fairly insignificant nation without much of a military.(not that i value military power as such. When militaries exist they tend to get used). It was dominated by the slaveholding agrarian white South. The Industrial Revolution had not yet geared up.

It was really not until the end of WW2 that the vast profits generated by the war, & the massive industrial buildup of the war, rendered the US materially powerful. (Even then Washington soon disbanded most of its military; the big arms race began in earnest after Korea with the fraudulent "missile gap" promoted by JFK & has persisted since, in spite of the absence of the USSR & the presence of a cozy relationship with Stalinist China.)
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Old 01-25-07, 04:09 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by oscaregg
China and Taiwan are different nation-states and very different economies! I asked a similar question a few years ago of a bike business lifer that I know--he said that Taiwan and Italy have roughly similar wages in the bike manufacturing sector. Taiwan in general is a more advanced, higher-wage economy than Italy. Hmmm, think I'll ride the made-in-Taiwan Battaglin to work today!
Thank you! It amazes me the number of people (Americans) who are ignorant about geography and don't know that Taiwan (Republic of China) and "China" (Peoples' Republic of China) are NOT the same, especially in the areas of politics and economics. Most certainly don't know why we (America) call them by those two names, and that Nixon is the reason we no longer "officially" recognize Taiwan politically . I'll end my rant now even though I could go on and on.
(An egg: white on the outside, yellow on the inside.)
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Old 01-25-07, 06:31 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by kjmillig
Thank you! It amazes me the number of people (Americans) who are ignorant about geography and don't know that Taiwan (Republic of China) and "China" (Peoples' Republic of China) are NOT the same, especially in the areas of politics and economics.
(An egg: white on the outside, yellow on the inside.)
So, does that mean it is up to Americans and America to decide if Taiwan is a nation or a province of the PRC? Or are you proposing the current (or future) administration of America meddle in the policies between Taiwan and the PRC? Maybe you could explain to us the differences between the economies and the business and economic practices of Taiwan and the PRC, and how those differences in practice are meaningful to Americans?

And maybe you could explain what your "egg" comment means.
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Old 01-25-07, 07:01 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by cs1
The statement is neither bigoted nor ignorant. Your response, on the other hand, is not well thought out. He is contrasting their economy, today, to ours 200 years ago.

200 years ago, the US was primarily an agrarian society. We were on the verge of becoming an industrial and military power house. This is exactly where China is today.



Tim
This is where China is today? On the "verge" of becoming an industrial and military powerhouse? It might be a newsflash to you, but the rest of us are aware of the fact that China has had nuclear weapons since 1965. Also, two weeks ago, and at least once last year, China flash blinded one of America's weaponry guidance satellites (Reagon's Star Wars program) rendering it disabled. Just for the hell of it. Or to prove they can. And let's count the numbers for a ready military: 1.4 billion people, half of which are 25 years old or younger. So that's 700,000,000 divided by one third, gives them around 230,000,000 people at or near conscription age. Factor in the people that are a couple years older than that, and it comes to around 300,000,000 potential troops. Roughly the population, the ENTIRE population, of America. All Chinese university students (men and women) undergo basic military training (marching, physical training, organization, basic first aid) for two weeks just before they start school. That would be more than a verge.

Let's look at the industrialization of China. Or do we need to? They make most of the stuff we buy, including the high-tech. From microprocessors to car parts. Clothes and toys.

It wouldn't take long to retool factories from making Camrys and Buick Regals to armored military vehicles. Dress shirts and pants for export to fatigues. Toy factories turn into weapons factories. Does somebody think China is not industrialized?

It seems the lack of knowledge about contemporary China goes deeper than not being educated, but to not wanting to be educated, and that is where the prejudice can be found.
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Old 01-25-07, 07:26 PM
  #117  
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I wouldn't worry about china and the US, both countries have more than enough nuclear weapons to completely destroy each other. And given the fact that wind blows from the west to the east, whatever ungodly amounts of dust we kick up from our detonations will just rain right back onto us. Not to mention if any of our mirv's even so much as tickle a whisker on soviet territory, we're gonna have two asian countries launching their entire arsenal onto us and I guarantee you that china and the soviets can completely reduce the entire world into a radioactive waste land.

The only known source of life in this whole universe and we can't get our heads out of our asses long enough to preserve it for more than a few generations.
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Old 01-25-07, 07:37 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by slvoid
I wouldn't worry about china and the US, both countries have more than enough nuclear weapons to completely destroy each other. And given the fact that wind blows from the west to the east, whatever ungodly amounts of dust we kick up from our detonations will just rain right back onto us. Not to mention if any of our mirv's even so much as tickle a whisker on soviet territory, we're gonna have two asian countries launching their entire arsenal onto us and I guarantee you that china and the soviets can completely reduce the entire world into a radioactive waste land.

The only known source of life in this whole universe and we can't get our heads out of our asses long enough to preserve it for more than a few generations.
I'm a little pessimistic about nuc war any more. I just figure its going to happen eventually, as long as we keep hiring village idiots to be our caretakers. We'll just end up doing it to ourselves.
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Old 01-25-07, 07:39 PM
  #119  
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And as long as we think and behave in an "us versus them" way.
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Old 01-25-07, 08:07 PM
  #120  
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I think it's sad that such patently ignorant and ill-informed post as the original has managed to stir up so much completely predictable argument. Has the OP even posted again?

We need more killer robots.
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Old 01-25-07, 09:32 PM
  #121  
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Chromedome, you obviously have opinions, and opinions on other's opinions. You may even have some knowledge of foreign affairs. Have you lived in Taiwan or PRC, or even had an extended stay there? I don't particularly recommend PRC, but go for it if you like adventure.
Wo yichyan ju dzai Taiwan. Wo ye whei jyang jungwen, so I'll let you discover the meaning of the egg comment by speaking with your Chinese friends. Some of them may be bananas.
kjmillig, aka: Min He-Xiang.
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Old 01-25-07, 11:47 PM
  #122  
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[QUOTE=kjmillig]Chromedome, you obviously have opinions, and opinions on other's opinions. You may even have some knowledge of foreign affairs. Have you lived in Taiwan or PRC, or even had an extended stay there? I don't particularly recommend PRC, but go for it if you like adventure.
Wo yichyan ju dzai Taiwan. Wo ye whei jyang jungwen, so I'll let you discover the meaning of the egg comment by speaking with your Chinese friends. Some of them may be bananas.
kjmillig, aka: Min He-Xiang.[/QUOT
Your method of spelling with pinyin wouldn't work well in the PRC, would it? It doesn't impress me or anybody else that you know Chinese. There's lots of people that can. Not so unusual.

Don't recommend anything to me.
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Old 01-26-07, 02:56 AM
  #123  
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Lighten up- you're getting a little hysterical with your toy factories -> weapons factories scenarios. I can see why the guy assumes you haven't spent much time out in Asia.

Who cares if his pinyin isn't Mainland standard? He's from Taiwan (which is what is pinyin says, in case you assumed it was some obscure insult).

--womble (who wishes that his Mandarin was good enough to talk about robots with lasers)
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Old 01-26-07, 05:40 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by chromedome

Don't recommend anything to me.
My humble appologies to your omniscience. You were obviously toying with me because you already knew that I wasn't using Pinyin, but Yale Romanization, even though most Taiwanese use Wade Giles. So you also already know about the egg comment. True, over 1 1/2 billion people grow up speaking a Chinese language, but if you know any other southern white boys who can speak Mandarin, please send them my way. I'm having a heck of a time finding them. I know there are a few.

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Old 01-26-07, 09:26 AM
  #125  
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First of all, I need to apologise for altering your post in my post. I did that accidently. I had already written something and deleted it, and deleted too far. Anyway.....

Omniscience? Maybe so.
While you gave us a Chinese proverb, I offered some numbers. I am certainly opinionated, but so have been most all the other posters on this thread. But at least my opinions come from some experience. (Just like my opinions on Flic going to Africa were based on experience. Go look for it in the touring forum. I'm equally opinionated/assinine with that.)

You might've noticed that I never said I have first hand knowledge about Taiwan business and commerce, but limited my comments to China (although I did ask a recent poster to compare and tell us about practices of Taiwan and China.) My "knowledge" about Taiwan is based on knowing and talking with Taiwanese living and working in China, and I'm guessing their opinions may be a bit skewed. My own "opinions" are based on living and working (off and on) in China for the last fifteen years. And you might also have noticed that no one has ever given any qualifiable information as to slavery in Taiwan (which quickly turned into slavery/abuse/oppression in China.) You might also have noticed there were no qualifiable posts about abuse or oppression of factory workers in China except for one--by somebody named Chromedome, in his comment about Ipod employees having 60% of their wages withheld by the foreign general mangement. You might also have noticed a post on this thread from somebody named Chromedome about local teachers in Guangzhou demonstrating and striking--peacefully--recently for the creation of teacher's unions.

All in all, I think I'm basing my opinions on information a little bit newer and somewhat more first hand than high school history books published who knows when, which seems to be the driver behind the majority of the opinions in this thread.

So maybe you are the person that is qualified to answer the OP's (sdime I think) question once and for all: is there slavery in Taiwan? Are the Taiwan-made bikes sold in America made by slaves? And can you qualify your answer?

(And for slvoid: I saw something on History channel just last night about nuc energy, and how America has bought 10,000 nuc war heads from Russia in the last few years, using the uranium for our power plants, and has plans for buying 10,000 more. IF that's true, then at least 10,000 nucs are out of the hands of those maniacs. Now we just need to get them out of the hands of the maniacs in America.)
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