General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Self Sealing Intertubes?

Old 05-03-03, 05:57 PM
  #1  
branmu
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Self Sealing Intertubes?

Are the self sealing intertubes worth it, or just a scam to make you pay twice the price?
branmu is offline  
Old 05-03-03, 09:03 PM
  #2  
Hunter
NOT a weight weenie
 
Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I for one think that they are well worth it. As a matter of fact I use liners and injected tubes. Of course where I am it is kind of neccessary.
Hunter is offline  
Old 05-03-03, 10:19 PM
  #3  
Pete Clark
It's in my blood
 
Pete Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The goop they use in those self-sealing tubes is the same that they sell for car tires.

I used some in a problem flat (slow leak) that was bugging me in the car. I plugged it and used the green goop.

The car is dead now, but the tire is still perfect.



All I can say is try it.
Pete Clark is offline  
Old 05-03-03, 10:46 PM
  #4  
John00
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bend Or.
Posts: 572

Bikes: 2 TiSports and a Ho Ko E Koo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They work very well on MT bikes for goat heads and other small punctures; they don't work on road bikes because they can't hold the high pressure.
I was riding my MT bike with a slime tube on the front when I got a large puncture and every time the hole came around it sprayed yellow slime all over me.
John00 is offline  
Old 05-03-03, 10:57 PM
  #5  
fore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
someone who used Slime/goo/whatever once brought their bike into the shop i work at to have new tires put on.

once i discovered what a pain (read: time consuming) it was to try and let the air out to get the old tires off i wanted to charge extra. it took longer to deflate the tire than it did to take off the old tire and put the new one on.

i wont mention the mess it made.
fore is offline  
Old 05-04-03, 09:10 AM
  #6  
Hunter
NOT a weight weenie
 
Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Let me get this straight you wanted to charge extra because it took more time to deflate the tube? Also there are more products out there than Slime. The poroduct I use True Goo is no hassle takes no more time to deflate than a normal tube and is not messy. Maybe your should tell your manager to look into it.
Hunter is offline  
Old 05-04-03, 09:46 AM
  #7  
fore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by Hunter
Let me get this straight you wanted to charge extra because it took more time to deflate the tube? Also there are more products out there than Slime. The poroduct I use True Goo is no hassle takes no more time to deflate than a normal tube and is not messy. Maybe your should tell your manager to look into it.
i was being slightly sarcastic. it was another way of saying "i had other things i needed to be doing instead of sitting here waiting for this tire to deflate"

my shop doesn't carry any sort of goo/slime/whatever. we do stock Mr. Tuffys tire liners, however, which work great. i have the pleasure of living in the inner-city where the roads are a mess and i haven't flatted in months.
fore is offline  
Old 05-04-03, 07:10 PM
  #8  
D*Alex
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
FWIW, I've heard people say that Slime works well on goathead thorns. I wouldn't know if that is true, because we don't have them here. I can tell you that Slime works very poorly on glass punctures, and on high pressure tyres. Tufo sealant, however, works fairly well on high-pressure small holes, but even it can't plug every puncture.
__________________
Je vais à vélo, donc je suis!
D*Alex is offline  
Old 05-04-03, 07:18 PM
  #9  
DnvrFox
Banned.
 
DnvrFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 20,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally posted by D*Alex
FWIW, I've heard people say that Slime works well on goathead thorns.
Yes, but Slime still screws up your valves, be they Schrader or Presta. The best thing is to get is an Armadillo technology tire from Specialized. They have them now for road, slicks and mtn bike tires.
DnvrFox is offline  
Old 05-04-03, 08:45 PM
  #10  
Inoplanetyanin
Senior Member
 
Inoplanetyanin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: LA
Posts: 715

Bikes: got stolen on memorial day: Schwinn Traveler (early 80s) Currently 96-97 Gazelle Medeo. It's a Dutch hybrid bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by branmu
Are the self sealing intertubes worth it, or just a scam to make you pay twice the price?
I wouldnt want to use them on my bicycle.
In fact, while replacing tires today, I threw away an existing tube that had the sealant in it. That tube was also old, cheap, and wrong size...
Still, plain tire is the best!
Inoplanetyanin is offline  
Old 05-04-03, 08:49 PM
  #11  
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,761

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I second DnvrFox; Slime is crap in road tires plus adds weight. I do not mean the Armadillos are light, but when using a Michelin Carbon tire that weighs 260 grams then add the weight of a 120gram ultralight Slime tube your up to 380 grams and still have a Slime tube that will not work at high pressure. I switched to the Armos after an LBS who have a RAMM race team recommended them and were the tires they train on. The Specialize folding Turbo Armadillo weighs 350 grms and I use a 65grm ultralight tube and suddenly your almost flat free! I have not had one flat since using these for over 12,000 miles and almost 3 years!!

Just so you know; after moving to an area where there are trashy streets I was averaging 2-5 flats a week! And destroying tires before I could get over 750 miles on them. My last effort to control flats was using a Slime Tube and a Mr Tuffy in a Conti 3000 rear and an Mich Carbon front and still got 2 flats a week and the weight for each tire was (about) 260 for tire, 120 for tube and 90 for the Tuffy equals 470grms! Most of these flats were sidewall attacks. My air pressure is not a problem because I always run at max recommended pressure and I only weigh 160 so weight is not the issue; the issue was trashy streets. I have helped many roadies fix their flats and some complaining about the flat issue took my tire recommendation to heart.

The Continental Gatorback is also a good tire BUT has a paper thin sidewall thus no sidewall protection whereas the Armos extends the protection into the sidewall-no other tire does this.
froze is offline  
Old 05-05-03, 04:06 AM
  #12  
trmcgeehan
Senior Member
 
trmcgeehan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Somerset, KY -- near Lake Cumberland
Posts: 757

Bikes: 1980 Univega; 1985 Ross; 1994 Trek 1400 -- all road bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I bought two self sealing tubes from Bike Nashbar ($5.95 ea.), and after putting them on, I had a flat the first week. I called the company to complain, and the tech guy said I should have used a rolling pin on the tubes to even out the sealant before I installed the tubes. I did this, and haven't had a flat since (6 months). I told Nashbar they should have included this in the instructions that come with the tubes.
__________________
"I am a true laborer. I earn that I eat, get that I wear, owe no man hate, envy no man's happiness, glad of other men's good, content with my harm." As You Like It, Act 3, Scene 2. Shakespeare.
"Deep down, I'm pretty superficial." Ava Gardner.
trmcgeehan is offline  
Old 05-17-03, 01:38 AM
  #13  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by fore
my shop doesn't carry any sort of goo/slime/whatever. we do stock Mr. Tuffys tire liners, however, which work great. i have the pleasure of living in the inner-city where the roads are a mess and i haven't flatted in months.
Then maybe you are the person I need to talk to.

I moved to Hawaii and just took up biking again (after a 36 year layoff!). Almost all my flats are from glass - most typically very tiny pieces that seem to stay inside the tread wall until under pressure and being ridden. Presently I have Continental Grand Prix Four Seasons (700x25) on a Bianchi Volpe.

Lots of glass and you can't dodge it all. Flats are generally in the rear tire, I assume because of more weight and less ability to dodge glass.

Anyway, after a really bad streak of 8 flats in 11 rides (25 miles each ride), I put in the Mr Tuffy liner. I had read people online talk about how the liner caused flats! But I was getting desparate and some people said it shouldn't be a problem in less than 1000 miles. One person did tell me to put electrical tape over the exposed end, which I did. I also only put it in the rear tire.

Well,after 175 miles I got a flat and you could see where the liner had cut into the tube, right over the actual hole. I tried a bit more tape, but at just 60 miles, I had another flat in the same area. Then just 15 miles later, it happened again.

Then I found out that I needed to pull off the end so it would be rounded. I did that and tried extra hard to keep the overlapped sections lined up. Taped the end again too. I've gone 62 more miles and okay so far, but that isn't much to go on.

Since some people hate these things and some talk about never having trouble, I figure there has to be something people are doing wrong or there is bad quality control.

What VERY DETAILED advice can you, or others, give because I'm really getting frustrated, unless I finally did it right this time.

Bob
TheRCF is offline  
Old 05-17-03, 07:18 AM
  #14  
D*Alex
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Buy a tyre that is resistant to punctures. Specialized makes the Nimbus, Hemisphere, and the Armadillo. Any of these 3 are nearly impervious to glass. Sure beats dicking around with those d@mn liners!!
__________________
Je vais à vélo, donc je suis!
D*Alex is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 01:17 AM
  #15  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by D*Alex
Buy a tyre that is resistant to punctures. Specialized makes the Nimbus, Hemisphere, and the Armadillo. Any of these 3 are nearly impervious to glass. Sure beats dicking around with those d@mn liners!!
I'm not familiar with the Hemisphere. I have heard a lot about the Armadillo. As for the Nimbus, I had them and they are not at all nearly impervious to glass! As soon as I put them on (26x1.5 to replace my original 26x1.95 inch tires), I started getting flats and all but one were from glass.

I would expect the Armadillos would be much better, but I'm really not sure how much.

I have learned that flats are often just a matter of good/bad luck. For example, my Conti Grand Prix four seasons have always gotten periodic flats, but then I had that period of 8 flats in 11 rides of 25 miles each. What made it even more unusual was that I was making it a point to "take the lane" more, thus staying out of the trash better than before.

Or consider that almost all my flats have been in the rear tire - yet in the past 40 miles I've had two flats and both were in the front. Just bad luck.

I think a lot of people who praise or trash a tire are often just a victim of these unusual patterns. How else to explain contradictory reviews of the same tire?

But the case of the Mr Tuffy liners is different, I think. I mean, you can SEE whether the strip has rubbed a hole in the tube. It isn't a matter of having bad luck. Yet we have highly contradictory reports on them. This makes me think there is something people are doing differently when installing them.

Bob
TheRCF is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 08:58 AM
  #16  
fore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
before we install them we take the ends of the liner to a bench grinder and taper them down to a nice clean, smooth edge. i'll take a photo of what the ends look like after we're done if you like, but that'll have to wait until later tonight.
fore is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 12:13 PM
  #17  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by fore
before we install them we take the ends of the liner to a bench grinder and taper them down to a nice clean, smooth edge. i'll take a photo of what the ends look like after we're done if you like, but that'll have to wait until later tonight.
I don't have a bench grinder but I do have one of those roto-tool type things. I assume that would work too. I'd be interested in seeing how it looks on the finished product though. Thanks.

Bob
TheRCF is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 12:29 PM
  #18  
Kev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Flats are partialy just bad luck, but some ride in really bad conditions which will cause more flasts then others. The armadillos have a togher casing to prevent flast, not as tough as the tire liners, but it extends the sides of the tire to so that can be a advantage. So you realisticaly can interpret whether a tire is good or bad at preventing punctures, it won't be in 1-2 rides but in course of let's say a year you can tell.
Kev is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 12:44 PM
  #19  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by Kev
Flats are partialy just bad luck, but some ride in really bad conditions which will cause more flasts then others. The armadillos have a togher casing to prevent flast, not as tough as the tire liners, but it extends the sides of the tire to so that can be a advantage. So you realisticaly can interpret whether a tire is good or bad at preventing punctures, it won't be in 1-2 rides but in course of let's say a year you can tell.
Most reviews I see from riders tend to only base their comments on a relatively short period (unless they are NOT getting flats), so this makes it hard to tell.

Unfortunately, I ride in bad conditions on much of my route. While I might find glass anyplace, there is a section about a mile or so long which is terrible and they don't clean it very much. Last time was almost 6 weeks ago for an area which needs it weekly (lots of homeless in the area resulting in lots of broken bottles).

But they have nice bike lanes on much of it which are almost worthless right now because of the junk.

Bob
TheRCF is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 01:37 PM
  #20  
Kev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The armadilos were specificaly made to reduce flats, is why the excel in that are and normaly get the best reviews from people. I agree if you just had them even a few weeks it's hard to judge. They are drawbacks also with less flats, I don't use the armadilos so can't comment on them, but you might get higher roller resistance, and more weight. That is why I don't run them, I like my 700x20 Forteza tricomp tires I get more flats, but I ride fairly good roads so only get a flat every few weeks.
Kev is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 01:47 PM
  #21  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, I have over 2500 miles on my present tires. Perhaps I'll try an Armadillo on the rear since that is where I almost always get the flats.

Bob
TheRCF is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 03:50 PM
  #22  
fore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
alright. here's what it looks like after we fix the edge. it's not the best photograph, but it should give you an idea of the finished product.

basically, all you're doing (and your rototool will work for this too) is tapering the edge.
fore is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 09:55 PM
  #23  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by fore
alright. here's what it looks like after we fix the edge. it's not the best photograph, but it should give you an idea of the finished product.

basically, all you're doing (and your rototool will work for this too) is tapering the edge.
Thanks. That's about what I thought. I wonder why the company doesn't do something like this to begin with, assuming that is the solution to the problem many people report.

Do you have any experience with riders who had a lot of problems with the liner causing flats? And did doing this solve their problems?

I'm kinda determined to figure out the solution to this. I hope this is it. Right now I'm trying to decide whether to redo m rear tire or just wait and see if it flats again. So far I have just over 100 miles on it since the last flat. I've tried to line things up more carefully (don't know if I succeeded) and put electrical tape over the edge.

Bob
TheRCF is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 11:05 PM
  #24  
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 4,761

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You are right RCF about having good or bad luck, and that's why (read my earlier post) I now prefer the Armadillo, because after a few years of averaging 2-5 flats a week and no more than 750 miles on a tire before a fatal attack then switching to the Armadillo has now resulted in no flats (I did have one due to a faulty tube) in over 12,000 miles. Thats not luck, that is all about the tires. I did try the Mr Tuffy thing but as I said earlier that did not prevent the sidewall flat but did reduce my flat frequency to 2 a week. But 2 a week is still too many when your trying to commute to work on a bike.

Riding on these Arma's is peace of mind; I rode a section of road about a month ago that for about 2/10ths of a mile the bike lane was just covered with broken glass from many bottles, and all I heard was crunching that whole distance but I never got a flat, some cuts but no flats.

I still carry patches, tire boot, spare tube and tire because you never know and I ride in remote places where walking would be a very long task.
froze is offline  
Old 05-18-03, 11:31 PM
  #25  
TheRCF
Da Big Kahuna
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
> Riding on these Arma's is peace of mind; I rode a section of road about a month ago that for about 2/10ths of a mile the bike lane was just covered with broken glass from many bottles, and all I heard was crunching that whole distance but I never got a flat, some cuts but no flats. <

That's pretty impressive. I don't get flats on the sidewalls, except for one and that is over a period of 15 months and 5500 miles. In fact, I wonder how people get them. It doesn't seem they could come from small pieces of glass since I see no way they could get stuck in the sidewall.

Oh, with all that glass, did you find pieces in the tire that just didn't get through the other layers? Or did nothing get in at all? I assume that with the Mr Tuffy, I still should hunt for little pieces and pull them out.

Anyway, let's see how the Armadillos would fit into my situation. I ride about 5 days a week to Waikiki (12.5 miles each way). I like speed for its own sake but also because I don't feel comfortable taking the lane and blocking traffic unless I can also go pretty fast myself and there is a one mile stretch where there is no shoulder at all and LOTS of traffic. When I can manage more than 20 mph, I feel much better going through that area, but I can't always do it (big headwinds sometimes, but I'm getting better). I wouldn't want to lose speed.

Armadillos are, I understand, heavy. Not sure how one compares with a Conti Grand PRix Four Season plus Mr Tuffy though. I also don't know if the weight really matters that much, even rotating weight. I hear lots of talk, but all the figures I've seen show very little difference. An example I often use is one I found that showed a 10 lb difference over 20 miles only saved 33 seconds. That is pretty much meaningless if you aren't racing!

But then the Armadillos have more rolling resistance, right? I have no idea how much effect that would have on speed.

Next, I keep hearing about how stiff the sidewall is, thus rougher ride. That might not bother me (won't know till I try), but what about getting the tire off and on? I've always had trouble with that even with my Conti's (though after so much stretching from fixing flats, they aren't bad now). Even now I need to use a quik stick to put the last part on. I can't do it by hand. So I worry about how the Armadillos will be.

To minimize the weight difference, I've also considered changing the rear tire from a 700x25 to a 700x23.

Any views on these concerns and ideas?

Too bad you can't use tires for a week or two before deciding to pay for them!

Bob
TheRCF is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.