North Road v. Albatross v. Mungo v. All-Rounder v. Wald 8095 v. Priest v. Dove ...
02-11-07, 02:59 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Dirtdrop
I just measured my steel Wald North Roads. They're 21" c to c. It should also be mentioned that steel bars get rusty and they tend to slip in the stem clamp.
By the way, here's my old vs. new:
My donated North Road bars do have the rust issue, I'll call it a theft deterrent:
Last edited by jbrams; 02-11-07 at 06:53 PM.
02-11-07, 04:49 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by jbrams
Fantastic, thanks "here and there" ... Here's a good pic based on your name (this is a sculpture in Oakland near my house):
"Many Oaklanders are frustrated by the misuse of the most famous quote said about their city, "there's no there there," uttered by Gertrude Stein upon learning as an adult that her childhood Oakland home had been torn down. Contrary to popular belief, the comment was not meant to disparage the city, but rather to express a sentiment similar to "you can't go home again". Modern-day Oakland has turned the quote on its head, with a statue downtown simply titled, "There." Additionally, in 2005 a sculpture called HERETHERE was installed by the City of Berkeley on the Berkeley-Oakland border at Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The sculpture consists of eight foot high letters spelling out the words "HERE" and "THERE" in front of a ramp that carries the BART rapid transit tracks from its elevated section in Oakland to the underground section in Berkeley."
See here
"Many Oaklanders are frustrated by the misuse of the most famous quote said about their city, "there's no there there," uttered by Gertrude Stein upon learning as an adult that her childhood Oakland home had been torn down. Contrary to popular belief, the comment was not meant to disparage the city, but rather to express a sentiment similar to "you can't go home again". Modern-day Oakland has turned the quote on its head, with a statue downtown simply titled, "There." Additionally, in 2005 a sculpture called HERETHERE was installed by the City of Berkeley on the Berkeley-Oakland border at Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The sculpture consists of eight foot high letters spelling out the words "HERE" and "THERE" in front of a ramp that carries the BART rapid transit tracks from its elevated section in Oakland to the underground section in Berkeley."
See here
The new handlebars look good (that's a nice saddle too
). I ended up ordering some north road bars this week (the wald version) that will likely replace my dove bars.
02-11-07, 06:52 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by here and there
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
The new handlebars look good (that's a nice saddle too). I ended up ordering some north road bars this week (the wald version) that will likely replace my dove bars.
The new handlebars look good (that's a nice saddle too
). I ended up ordering some north road bars this week (the wald version) that will likely replace my dove bars.I'm thinking of replacing the short, high angle stem with the original which is maybe a 10 degree rise and 110mm (current stem is about 45 degree rise, 65mm long). It's also a bit narrow for me, maybe I can get my hands on something an inch wider. And it's not a wald as I speculated; just something from a early 80's schwinn or some such. Same deal though.
My impression was that I was substantially more upright ... I could take my hands off the bars and early sit upright with no real work. Probably should be a bit more forward, but I can't get my seat further back to counter balance a bit so I'm not going to mess with it beyond returning to a shallower angle, longer stem. Great short ride today, finally a break in the rain.
Worked on it in the Missing Link bike shop in Berkeley ... they have a room just for people to work on bikes with loaner tools ... and what loaner tools! They have everything including work stands and good lighting. I was really happy to find chain grease and proper cable housing cutters, saves tons of time and makes for a much better end result. I'll be back there again and again.
Now, to find some food ... and on that note I've lost 19.8 lbs since january 3rd! Yip!
Last edited by jbrams; 02-11-07 at 06:58 PM.
02-13-07, 12:05 PM
#29
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jbrams:
Congratulations on the weight loss. I've lost 50lbs in the past 1-1/2 years.
A note on the bar position relative to your posture: Be aware that the old Brit 3-speeds were very short in the cockpit compared to more recent bikes. Not only did they have very short stems, but they had short top tubes as well. That means that your present posture is not as upright as you may think - it just feels that way because of the sudden change. If you stretch out the setup, you may negate the advantages of a more ergo bar by actually putting the weight right back where you didn't want it. You'll likely find that the single hand position on NR's works against you.
My setup is an adjustable stem, but it is set at about 80mm, which puts the middle of the grips in a line crossing thru the quill. My spine is about the same angle as the seat stays - not bolt upright
Congratulations on the weight loss. I've lost 50lbs in the past 1-1/2 years.
A note on the bar position relative to your posture: Be aware that the old Brit 3-speeds were very short in the cockpit compared to more recent bikes. Not only did they have very short stems, but they had short top tubes as well. That means that your present posture is not as upright as you may think - it just feels that way because of the sudden change. If you stretch out the setup, you may negate the advantages of a more ergo bar by actually putting the weight right back where you didn't want it. You'll likely find that the single hand position on NR's works against you.
My setup is an adjustable stem, but it is set at about 80mm, which puts the middle of the grips in a line crossing thru the quill. My spine is about the same angle as the seat stays - not bolt upright
02-13-07, 02:30 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jcm
jbrams:
Congratulations on the weight loss. I've lost 50lbs in the past 1-1/2 years.
Congratulations on the weight loss. I've lost 50lbs in the past 1-1/2 years.
Originally Posted by jcm
A note on the bar position relative to your posture: Be aware that the old Brit 3-speeds were very short in the cockpit compared to more recent bikes. Not only did they have very short stems, but they had short top tubes as well. That means that your present posture is not as upright as you may think - it just feels that way because of the sudden change. If you stretch out the setup, you may negate the advantages of a more ergo bar by actually putting the weight right back where you didn't want it. You'll likely find that the single hand position on NR's works against you.
Originally Posted by jcm
My setup is an adjustable stem, but it is set at about 80mm, which puts the middle of the grips in a line crossing thru the quill. My spine is about the same angle as the seat stays - not bolt upright
That being said, do you know if the shifters and brakes that come on the Jamis coda's flat bars will work on the North Road or similar bars?
02-14-07, 01:03 PM
#31
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"...do you know if the shifters and brakes that come on the Jamis coda's flat bars will work on the North Road or similar bars?"
Can't say for certain, but I have used my bar-ends on my Trek 520 along with a set of Avid SD-7 brakes levers on the Wald bars. Perfect fit. The bars are .875" (7/8" or 22.2mm) on the outside and about .781" (25/32" or 19.8mm) on the inside.
Definitely tilt the bars to suit. I like mine at about 3-5 degrees down, or, nearly level.
Trek 520 with Wald NR's - Avid levers- factory barcons:
Can't say for certain, but I have used my bar-ends on my Trek 520 along with a set of Avid SD-7 brakes levers on the Wald bars. Perfect fit. The bars are .875" (7/8" or 22.2mm) on the outside and about .781" (25/32" or 19.8mm) on the inside.
Definitely tilt the bars to suit. I like mine at about 3-5 degrees down, or, nearly level.
Trek 520 with Wald NR's - Avid levers- factory barcons:
11-15-07, 08:48 AM
#32
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90*?
Great post, it's very helpful but...
In comparing the Nitto north Road and Albatross, the [multiple] pictures of the Albatross on Rivendell's site very clearly show that the sweep is nowhere near 90*. It looks identical to the North Road and, in fact, Hiawatha Cycles who is a Riv dealer and deals in many things Nitto claims they cannot tell the difference between the bars. Maybe the "Albatross" design has changed? Maybe the North Road is now being sold as an Albatross at Riv?
Who knows...
In comparing the Nitto north Road and Albatross, the [multiple] pictures of the Albatross on Rivendell's site very clearly show that the sweep is nowhere near 90*. It looks identical to the North Road and, in fact, Hiawatha Cycles who is a Riv dealer and deals in many things Nitto claims they cannot tell the difference between the bars. Maybe the "Albatross" design has changed? Maybe the North Road is now being sold as an Albatross at Riv?
Who knows...
11-15-07, 09:21 AM
#33
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Since posting this I've purchased the Albatross bars and was given a some North Road bars. Here's the difference:
Basically, the shape is very similar except the curvature at the point furthest forward ... the albatross has a wider, bigger curve where you can easily place your hands in a couple different positions. The North Road has a little crook that is smaller which you can put your hands on top of or hook your thumb underneath. The picture I drew is out of scale, but it points out the main difference between the two.
If you're riding with either set of bars the feel is very similar for the "normal" hand position (at the ends) assuming all else is equal (angle relative to ground, height, etc).
I padded my albatross with gel tape which makes for a comfy riding position. This would be next to useless and harder to do on the North Roads.
I enjoy both handlebars, but the Albatross gets my pick for its satin finish and it's just "springer" than the North Roads I have ... it really bounces in a very good way that fits well with my bike and my own size/weight/issues. But the North Road can be found for much less and for most people the price difference will make the North Road a more reasonable choice unless you really prefer the different forward hand position of the Albatross.
That being said, I have the steel, 56cm Albatross bars ... there is also a 54cm Aluminum alloy version that is more well loved by the fixie crowd and some others. The feel is different, but the shape of the different metal versions is essentially the same.
Also, there were many bikes with "North Road" bars over the years and the shape, size, weight, and other factors seem to have varied a little between manufacturers and over time. So there may be a North Road bar that is different from what you've seen/ridden so if you're looking for something different it may well be out there ... somewhere.
I'll take some pictures another day to give a more accurate representation of the differences, just not this morning before work ... oy.
Basically, the shape is very similar except the curvature at the point furthest forward ... the albatross has a wider, bigger curve where you can easily place your hands in a couple different positions. The North Road has a little crook that is smaller which you can put your hands on top of or hook your thumb underneath. The picture I drew is out of scale, but it points out the main difference between the two.
If you're riding with either set of bars the feel is very similar for the "normal" hand position (at the ends) assuming all else is equal (angle relative to ground, height, etc).
I padded my albatross with gel tape which makes for a comfy riding position. This would be next to useless and harder to do on the North Roads.
I enjoy both handlebars, but the Albatross gets my pick for its satin finish and it's just "springer" than the North Roads I have ... it really bounces in a very good way that fits well with my bike and my own size/weight/issues. But the North Road can be found for much less and for most people the price difference will make the North Road a more reasonable choice unless you really prefer the different forward hand position of the Albatross.
That being said, I have the steel, 56cm Albatross bars ... there is also a 54cm Aluminum alloy version that is more well loved by the fixie crowd and some others. The feel is different, but the shape of the different metal versions is essentially the same.
Also, there were many bikes with "North Road" bars over the years and the shape, size, weight, and other factors seem to have varied a little between manufacturers and over time. So there may be a North Road bar that is different from what you've seen/ridden so if you're looking for something different it may well be out there ... somewhere.
I'll take some pictures another day to give a more accurate representation of the differences, just not this morning before work ... oy.
11-15-07, 10:32 AM
#34
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Thanks Jbrams...
That really helps. Is the "crook" on the NR really as sharp as in your sketch? I'd love to see photos if/when you can find the time - I'm trying to decide which of these bars to buy - leaning towards a NR in 54 cromo.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
11-15-07, 11:36 AM
#35
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Kinda, it's that sharp but it's not that long ... it doesn't stick out that far in front of the handle bars. Too hard to describe, I'll try for pictures tonight or this weekend.
11-15-07, 02:30 PM
#36
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Some images I've posted before but relate to this thread.
Flat, Albatross, North Road
Albatross on top of an On-One Mary
North Road on top of a Mary
Flat, Albatross, North Road
Albatross on top of an On-One Mary
North Road on top of a Mary
11-15-07, 06:52 PM
#37
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Have an Albatross bar on my 1x9 all purpose CrossCheck. At first i didn't like it, as the handgrips didn't seem to be a comfortable angle. I fiddled with the bike fit, seat and stem changes. Then i angled the
rear of the Albatross slightly upward, so the bar ends were a cm or two above the intersection with the stem. The handle bar is just above seat height, This has worked out to be pretty comfortable, wrapped
bar tape around the U-shaped sections which i lean into for climbing or on a windy day. Now I'm pretty happy with the set up {or just use to the set up}.
rear of the Albatross slightly upward, so the bar ends were a cm or two above the intersection with the stem. The handle bar is just above seat height, This has worked out to be pretty comfortable, wrapped
bar tape around the U-shaped sections which i lean into for climbing or on a windy day. Now I'm pretty happy with the set up {or just use to the set up}.
11-16-07, 12:13 AM
#38
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?
Allen G-
Whats the width on your A-bar and NR bar? The NR seem quite a bit narrower - I know the A-bar is available in 56 (as well as 54) and the NR in 54 but there appears to be a bigger discrepancy in size between the 2 bars in your picture.
I'm wondering if the NR bars you have are the second model offered by Nitto, sometimes sold as a North Road and sometimes labeled the "Allrounder". This bar is about 50cm c-to-c and has a significantly different shape than the North Road bar I have been asking about.
Links here might clarify what I'm describing:
North Road 54cm:
https://tinyurl.com/24scjo
Allrounder AKA North Road AKA 50cm:
https://tinyurl.com/2fdmw5
Thanks!
Whats the width on your A-bar and NR bar? The NR seem quite a bit narrower - I know the A-bar is available in 56 (as well as 54) and the NR in 54 but there appears to be a bigger discrepancy in size between the 2 bars in your picture.
I'm wondering if the NR bars you have are the second model offered by Nitto, sometimes sold as a North Road and sometimes labeled the "Allrounder". This bar is about 50cm c-to-c and has a significantly different shape than the North Road bar I have been asking about.
Links here might clarify what I'm describing:
North Road 54cm:
https://tinyurl.com/24scjo
Allrounder AKA North Road AKA 50cm:
https://tinyurl.com/2fdmw5
Thanks!
11-16-07, 12:51 AM
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OK, I'm still confused...
After comparing lots of pix and numbers, I'm still not entirely clear so...
Can anybody tell me definitively which bar has more sweep - the A-bar or the NR?
I'm looking for the bar which puts the grip area closest to parallel to the top tube.
Thanks!
Can anybody tell me definitively which bar has more sweep - the A-bar or the NR?
I'm looking for the bar which puts the grip area closest to parallel to the top tube.
Thanks!
11-16-07, 02:27 PM
#40
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That "North Road" is the same as the Allrounder in the link you posted, 50cm.
The "NR" has less sweep, but the bend is smaller and sharper. The Albatross's bar ends are more parallel, but the "bends" at the front of the bar are larger and more suitable to use as alternative hand holds.
The "NR" has less sweep, but the bend is smaller and sharper. The Albatross's bar ends are more parallel, but the "bends" at the front of the bar are larger and more suitable to use as alternative hand holds.
01-22-08, 01:55 PM
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When it comes to the types of bars discussed so far I've got time on the Jones H-Bar, the On-One Mary and the 56cm Albatross, and I've also imported the Black Sheep Ti Mountain Moustache Enduro bar (https://www.blacksheepbikes.com/) for a customer and had the chance to compare it directly with my Albatross bars. The Ti bar is wider and doesn't sweep as much as the Albatross, and the curves have more distinct placements, providing flatter, more sharply demarcated hand placement areas.
Jeff Jones is definitely cool with Titec having licensed the H-bars. They become more affordable, so more people can enjoy the benefits of them, he gets justly compensated for his intellectual property and it doesn't take time from work that demands his personal attention. I've yet to try the Titec versions, but they have three main differences as compared to his originals:
1) They are bulged to require a 31.8 stem. Jeff's originals used an unadorned 25.4 center crossbar stock to fit with any standard removable-face MTB stem. His favorite when he started out was the Thomson Elite stem, but he has subsequently switched to the Thomson X4 31.8mm stem, so he has designed a custom shim that is machined for him at Paragon that is an exact fit for the X4. This combination provides a number of benefits including extra stiffness and durability as well as lower weight.
2) The crosspiece on the Titec bars sweeps up and forward. This allows most to use stems of the same length and rise that they would use for a standard riser MTB bar. The Jones H-Bar, having a flat, straight crossbar works best with a longer stem with more rise than one would use with a standard riser bar.
3) The Titec bars are aluminum and relatively affordable. The Jones bars are Titanium, cost a ton and, as I mentioned above, often require investment in a new stem as well.
So how do they work in practice? The rearmost position on the Jones and Titec H-Bars is very similar in angle to the normal position on the On-One Mary, but the Mary has less fore-aft range, so if the rearmost positions are matched for reach the forward-most position on the H-bars may feel too far forward for many. I prefer to adjust stem length to match the center control position on the H-bars with the normal position on the Mary. This gives me useful positions both farther forward and narrowly aero than I can get with any of the other options discussed so far, but as far back as anything short of the Albatross, at the same width and sweep as the Mary. This wide and back position is great for descents (much better than the Albatross because of the better bracing angle) but also useful for both more relaxed cruising and various unweighting maneuvers (manuals, bunny hops and such).
I like the angle of the Mary, but it isn't anywhere near as versatile as the others. The positioning is nice, but no matter how nice the trick they are a bit of a one-trick pony when compared to the Albatross, the Moustache (Nitto or Black Sheep) or the H-bar variants.
Jeff Jones is definitely cool with Titec having licensed the H-bars. They become more affordable, so more people can enjoy the benefits of them, he gets justly compensated for his intellectual property and it doesn't take time from work that demands his personal attention. I've yet to try the Titec versions, but they have three main differences as compared to his originals:
1) They are bulged to require a 31.8 stem. Jeff's originals used an unadorned 25.4 center crossbar stock to fit with any standard removable-face MTB stem. His favorite when he started out was the Thomson Elite stem, but he has subsequently switched to the Thomson X4 31.8mm stem, so he has designed a custom shim that is machined for him at Paragon that is an exact fit for the X4. This combination provides a number of benefits including extra stiffness and durability as well as lower weight.
2) The crosspiece on the Titec bars sweeps up and forward. This allows most to use stems of the same length and rise that they would use for a standard riser MTB bar. The Jones H-Bar, having a flat, straight crossbar works best with a longer stem with more rise than one would use with a standard riser bar.
3) The Titec bars are aluminum and relatively affordable. The Jones bars are Titanium, cost a ton and, as I mentioned above, often require investment in a new stem as well.
So how do they work in practice? The rearmost position on the Jones and Titec H-Bars is very similar in angle to the normal position on the On-One Mary, but the Mary has less fore-aft range, so if the rearmost positions are matched for reach the forward-most position on the H-bars may feel too far forward for many. I prefer to adjust stem length to match the center control position on the H-bars with the normal position on the Mary. This gives me useful positions both farther forward and narrowly aero than I can get with any of the other options discussed so far, but as far back as anything short of the Albatross, at the same width and sweep as the Mary. This wide and back position is great for descents (much better than the Albatross because of the better bracing angle) but also useful for both more relaxed cruising and various unweighting maneuvers (manuals, bunny hops and such).
I like the angle of the Mary, but it isn't anywhere near as versatile as the others. The positioning is nice, but no matter how nice the trick they are a bit of a one-trick pony when compared to the Albatross, the Moustache (Nitto or Black Sheep) or the H-bar variants.
05-07-08, 08:20 AM
#43
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05-07-08, 07:48 PM
#44
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Great thread with lots of information...I may have a unique situation however.
I would like to change my mountain handlebars from risers to more of an upright bar for touring...like the Nitto Promenade or similiar. I would like to use my ultegra barcon shifters and the currently installed Tektro v-brake levers. Will any bar work? Suggestions if otherwise? Currently has grip shift installed...
I would like to change my mountain handlebars from risers to more of an upright bar for touring...like the Nitto Promenade or similiar. I would like to use my ultegra barcon shifters and the currently installed Tektro v-brake levers. Will any bar work? Suggestions if otherwise? Currently has grip shift installed...
06-02-08, 12:00 PM
#45
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Resurrecting an old thread on handlebars:
Has anyone tried the Pyramid Touring North Road Alloy Bike handlebars? Will grip shift and brake levers fit? I'm looking for a narrower width than cruisers. My bike is a Giant Suede with riser bars that seem to have 0 to miniscule sweep back. It's a 7 speed, (derailleur) so need room for the shifter and brakes. My other bikes I rode back in my youth were 3-speed and a Schwinn Suburban with tourist type bars.
Thanks.
Has anyone tried the Pyramid Touring North Road Alloy Bike handlebars? Will grip shift and brake levers fit? I'm looking for a narrower width than cruisers. My bike is a Giant Suede with riser bars that seem to have 0 to miniscule sweep back. It's a 7 speed, (derailleur) so need room for the shifter and brakes. My other bikes I rode back in my youth were 3-speed and a Schwinn Suburban with tourist type bars.
Thanks.
11-15-08, 05:35 PM
#46
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thanks for all the info re: bars. does anyone know if the crmo albatross bars will fit the tektro inverse brake levers? it says the levers fit bars with internal bar end diameters of 19.6 to 20.6mm. i don't know the internal dia. of the crmo albatross... any help would be appreciated! thanks!
11-30-08, 08:22 AM
#47
Senior Member
thanks for all the info re: bars. does anyone know if the crmo albatross bars will fit the tektro inverse brake levers? it says the levers fit bars with internal bar end diameters of 19.6 to 20.6mm. i don't know the internal dia. of the crmo albatross... any help would be appreciated! thanks!
I've been thinking the same thing! Fortunately, I've kept my old Riv catalogs, and one from 2003 lists the internal diameter as 20.0..... so it will be OK. Considering the Alabatross is made for bar-ends, any shifter or brake lever meant for the ends of bars should work.
The Tektro levers look like nice.... the reach is adjustable too. Velo Orange has them in all siver in case you were not aware.
Using these levers with the Albatross let's the whole grip be used ...... nice. I'll probably stick the thumbshifters near the middle .
02-01-22, 01:30 PM
#48
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[QUOTE=jbrams;3805747]
(C) The Wald #8095 (such a sexy name!) seems to be more generic/common cromolly version of the North Road (actually most that you see are probably Wald) though a bit wider than the Nitto or Soma versions ... sites say 22" or 23" (which is just over 58cm). From the comments:
"Touring Bars are the classic form of North Road bars. These are steel, 22" (not 23" - they may vary a bit), not heavy at all - besides, what's a few oz's?"
I have a set of these from a friend:
I'm pretty sure that is NOT a picture of a Wald 8095, but of something else.
The hand grips on the 8095 are at a more intermediate angle
(C) The Wald #8095 (such a sexy name!) seems to be more generic/common cromolly version of the North Road (actually most that you see are probably Wald) though a bit wider than the Nitto or Soma versions ... sites say 22" or 23" (which is just over 58cm). From the comments:
"Touring Bars are the classic form of North Road bars. These are steel, 22" (not 23" - they may vary a bit), not heavy at all - besides, what's a few oz's?"
I have a set of these from a friend:
I'm pretty sure that is NOT a picture of a Wald 8095, but of something else.
The hand grips on the 8095 are at a more intermediate angle
02-02-22, 09:33 AM
#49
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Trying to correct the historical record of info on BF? You've got a big job ahead if you are going to add to all the other threads that are 14 plus years since any activity.
02-02-22, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,856
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
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More that when researching something of current personal interest, I found something that seems to be misleading.
BF has a tradition of making new threads for older, already existing topics, but a lot of the Internet works the other way, extending old posts and threads so that the information that already exists doesn't have to be recreated from scratch each time someone is interested in it.
BF has a tradition of making new threads for older, already existing topics, but a lot of the Internet works the other way, extending old posts and threads so that the information that already exists doesn't have to be recreated from scratch each time someone is interested in it.
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