Smish

Hello!

This is my first post on this forum, though I have been reading it for several months now.

About 8 months ago, after a yearly physical, my doctor informed me that I was as close as someone my age would like to get to a heart attack (I’m only 20). My weight was about 225, which is a lot, but I didn't consider the possibility that I was putting my self at much risk. It was my cholesterol that was really out of control (260 ish i believe).

So I stepped into action, changed my diet and started biking almost everywhere I went. Sadly I only had a $130.00 department store mountain bike, which was much to small, and all my riding was on paved surfaces.

After a few months of listening to knobby tires on asphalt, and starting to feel some pain in my knees that I eventually attributed to my bike being too small, I hit my LBS and bought a brand new road bike.

Almost instantly I loved it, it was so much more agile, light, and I felt it fit me better, but the pain in my knees was still there. At this point I assumed they needed more time to recover from possible damage sustained on the smaller bike. So I took 1 month off from biking.

When I resumed riding the pain was back immediately, within 5 miles. So I went to the doctor. He did a physical exam, X-rays, etc., and was unable to determine anything. So he sent me to a physical therapist. He treated me for 4 weeks, and was unable to alleviate the pain, nor discern its cause.

The pain is very isolated, in approximately a 2 inch area, just do the inside of, and slightly below my knee caps. I would say its a 4 on a scale of 1-10 in terms of pain, and it almost never seems to feel different, never worse, never less.

Now to the point of the mater. I am thinking that my LBS has sold me a bike that is much, much to large. I am 74 inch tall, barefoot, with a 36 inch inseam (floor to crotch) barefoot.

The bike I purchased was a felt F-75, and the LBS measured me, and selected the frame size to be 63cm, and at the time I knew almost nothing about bikes, and went with it.

I have tried a very large range of saddle heights, fore/aft positions, cleat positions/angles, etc. and nothing seems to make it better or worse. As well, my knees do not bother me when walking, nor running.

And if it is not the size of the bike, do you all have any additional ideas on what could be causing my pain.

Smish

Ps sorry for the long post

late

Hi,
Here is an article
you might want to read.

https://www.rivbike.com/html/rr_raisestem.html

You clearly have issues with that bike, call around to other bike shops
and arrange to have a fitting done. They will also be able to tell you
if the bike is too big.

Lastly, I would question the wisdom of a person just getting back into
riding using a racing bike.

Nicodemus

^^ agreed. Get a second opinion, try to find a good bike shop where they really seem to know their stuff. It can be tricky if you accidentally get advice from someone undertrained.

Off the cuff, it sounds like that bike may be a bit too big, but again go get yourself check out proper-like.

As for the knee, in my experience almost every injury has required me finding just the right person who really knows what they're talking about. Check with sports physiotherapists, try and find one or two other opinions on what's exactly causing it.

For me, I had similar pain but other side and above the knee. The first doctor just told me to rest it. He was wrong and I'm glad I went to someone else - I was lucky to find someone who knew exactly what caused it and gave me just the right exercises to fix it. I find that there is a good correspondence of quality of knowledge and level of qualification (e.g. osteopath vs. physiotherapist vs. chiropractor vs. neurologist). But sometimes there's a bit of luck involved. Good luck in your search.

Smish

Thanks for your replies. I will go tomorrow to the LBS in the next town, as we only have one in this town, and it is very small, with only 3 employees, and only 2 of them sell/deal with bike stuff.

One other thing I will mention, the only thing that has any effect on the pain is if I really really kick my knees out, through the whole pedal stroke, this drastically reduces the pain

Smish

zonatandem

To check and see if you have correct standover room, throw leg over the bike, put both feet 'flat' on the ground with feet slightly spread apart. Is the top tube hitting you in the crotch? If it does, bike is way too big. If you have 1 to 1 1/2 inches of space between crotch and toptube, standover height is correct.Then come issues of saddle height and stem length, which can be fixed/adjusted without buying a new bike that fits.

neurocycler

Hope the knee pain issue will be resolved soon (sounds like a bike fit issue as mentioned above). Congrats on getting out there and doing something.

turtle77

Have you had the bike properly fit to you? Size of the frame is usually not such an issue as long as it's ballpark, which it sounds like yours is. The problem usually comes from having the seat too high/low (more common) or forward/back (less common). I'm only 6'1" and I ride a Cross-Check that is the largest frame (I think) that Surly makes which is 62cm. Many people have told me that the frame is too big. I disagree. It's very comfortable for me. If you look at the bikes from past eras, they were always bigger than they are now. Standover height is important but by the same token, I mean, honestly, when was the last time you had to actually jump forward off of your seat and straddle the top tube? I NEVER HAVE and I've been riding for decades. I'd be willing to bet that most people haven't.

I'd say that the size of your bike is fine, but that you should have someone fit you to it. You may need something small like a new handlebar stem or a different size crankset, but you should be fine with the majority of your bike.

Little Darwin

The issue doesn't sound likely to be bike being too large to me.

The pain is the same on a too small department store mountain bike and a 63cm LBS road bike...

As long as you are able to keep your knee slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke, and don't feel to stretched out for the bars your bike is probably not too big.

I have two related questions. What is your usual cadence? What gear do you use on flat rides?

I would suggest if your cadence is not at least 60-70, then work up to that range or higher.

The process I used with a different pain was to pick a gear that felt right, and then shifted down one or two gears on the back... I still am not a good spinner, but as a high RPM masher, I find it is easier on my legs and knees. The trick is to pick a gear that feels like there isn't enough resistance until you get your RPM up where it should be. My cadence was in the range of 50, and now tends to be about 80...

Also, do you use clipless pedals? If so, a tweak of cleat position could be helpful.

Velo Dog

It's impossible to tell for sure without measurements, but 63cm is a plausible size for a 6'2"guy. I'm about an inch taller, and I ride a 64 or 65cm frame very comfortably. Again, it's hard to say without more information, but I'd be inclined to blame gearing, riding position or overuse for the knee pain.
I don't know much about Felt, but as I recall the F-75 is a racing, or at least race-looking, bike. If you're running standard gearing, say 53-39 in front and a 25-tooth largest cog in back, it may be too high for your weight and your present physical condition (no reason to be embarrassed by that, by the way--most people, if they'd admit it, don't need a 53-tooth chainring. I run a 46-36-26 triple and use it all). Losing weight will help, too. I weigh about 230 now, but I've been as high as 275, and I can tell you from experience that an extra 20 pounds is a LOT to haul uphill.
You might also be riding in too high a gear. Count the number of times your cranks go around in 15 seconds and multiply by four to get your cadence in revolutions per minute. If it's below 80, shift down to a lower gear and pedal faster. You'll go the same speed, but the load on your knees will be less. Aim for 80-100 rpm most of the time.
You mentioned that you've moved the saddle up and down and fore and aft. I'd recommend finding a setting and leaving it for awhile. There's been reams of stuff written about that, and you can find advice online. Basically, though, you want your legs almost but not quite straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Too low is tough on the knees.
As for fore and aft, the old rule is to move the seat so that if you hold one end of a weighted string at the base of your kneecap and let it hang down, the weight hits the pedal spindle (it's called KOPS, for Knee Over Pedal Spindle). Not everyone believes that's valid anymore (my saddle is about an inch back from there), but it's a place to start. You can adjust as you go.
Finally, it may help to take antiinflammatory drugs (aspirin or ibuprofen, not Tylenol) prophylactically for a few days, a couple every six hours or so, and ice the knees for 15 minutes after riding. Don't take the drugs for more than three or four days without checking with your doctor, but it can help get things under control.
You might also try losing the cleats for awhile and riding on cheap platform pedals with toe clips. I still use clips on my commuter Atlantis. It doesn't slow you down as much as a lot of people think, and you can move your feet around on the pedals to ease the strain.

shider

I'll add my $.02 to the conversation. I once suffered from knee pain and have found it to be relieved by two things.

1.) Up the cadence. Don't ever think push harder, just think spin faster. Shift down and don't worry about being in too low a gear until your speed is being limited by how fast you can pedal.

2.) Try different pedals. I found that pedals with "free float" are much nicer to my knees. I have eggbeaters on my mountain bike and although it took a while to get used to the float, it was instantly better for my knees.

Good luck!

slowandsteady

Causes for knee pain:

Saddle too low: leg should be almost fully extended on the down stroke.(it has nothing to do with whether or not you can reach the ground while still in the saddle!!!!)
Saddle too far forward or back: Drop a plumb line from just below your knee cap, the line should just graze your pedal spindle or be a little ways back
Cleat position: should be under the ball of your foot and angled to match your normal foot position
Q-factor: you may need the pedals to extend further from the crank https://www.bikescor.com/product/knee.htm might help

Post some pics of you on your bike with one leg at 6:00.

reverborama

+1 to all of this. Cadence should be at least 70. I think you should also look carefully at foot position and how much float (side-to-side) movement your pedals allow.

MKahrl

Ditch the cleats, clipless pedals and bike shoes. Get platform pedals and ride wearing normal shoes. When you can position your foot anywhere you want and at any angle you want you may get rid of the pain. You will not lose vast amounts of power by going with a no retention system. If you need some retention try PowerGrips.

Pamestique 

Boy I am confused... you are 6'2" and 225 lbs? That's not particularly heavy is it? Also you have a 36 inch inseam? That means your body is ectomorphic; very long legs and arms and short upper body.
Is that correct... if so I may understand your problem. The shop was probably fitting you to standover but didn't consider you may have short reach. Actually the most important distance is not the room to your crotch but the ability to sit on the saddle and reach your handlebars ad brakes comfortably, in proper riding position. If you are very stretched out and bent over you need some adjustment. If you are instead, sitting too far upright, again some adjustment is needed. \The knee pain you mentioned is classic, seat too low pain. Are you able to stop your bike and put your feet down on the roadway whikle still sitting on the saddle? If so, saddle is much too low. I couldn't put my foot down without first coming off the saddle. A 63 cm bike is very tall but not for someone with a 36" inseam.

What you need to find is someone who specializes in bike fittings. Maybe someone can recommend a fitter in your area. Fittings involve not only standover, but reach, pedal placement, etc. It really is a art to get the bike right.

Good luck - how diappointing when you are ready to ride. There is a solution, just keep at it.

Also adding: You should not be mashing but instead spinning. If you don't know what that means ask a bike shop. Mashing will cause knee pain. Also, allow yourself a 10 mile warm up before pushing hard. Good pedal with float are Speedplay X1's or 2's.

Smish

Hello, its been a few days sense I have been able to get back to reading on the forums, and posting my replies.

Some additional information that I didn't include in my original post:

225lb was my starting weight, I'm currently at 183 lb., just weighed accually.

I do have a computer, and I do my best to not go below 75 rpm, my average is 80ish.

I feel that my Inner quads(vastus medialis?) are somewhat out of proportion to my other leg muscles, and this muscle seems to end an inch or so above where the pain begins.



As far as me set goes, I think it is about right, when I come to a stop, I have to unclip one side, and lean over to get that foot to the ground.

As far as bike sizing goes, I believe that I truely have 2 problems going on here, one is my knee pain, that, after some thought, must be somewhat unrelated to the bike size, or saddle/pedal configuration, because my old bike was small, and had platform pedals, and I had exactly the same pain.

Concerning the bike, I think BCIpam has hit the nail on the head, when I get my saddle to a point that it feels right for my legs, I feel like I'm streching to the moon to reach the handlebars. Or perhaps, this is problem is one in the same, maybe because my upperbody is smaller, relatively speaking, I have been inclined to put my saddle too far forward inorder to be more confortable reaching the bars, while in the process, getting too far foward for my legs.

I haven't yet been able to get to a bike shop that does fitting, my work schedule has been packed this week, but I'm shooting for thurdays as of now.

I'll see if i can upload a pic of my on the bike in multiple handlebar positions tommorrow.

Thanks for all your info.

Smish.



PS Is it possible that this could be simple poor muscle coordinations on my part?, as in using my quads(mainly inner quads) to much, and very little biceps(back of legs?),gluts, or calfs? It seems that I was doing this, without being aware of it.

v1k1ng1001

63 cm is a size or two too large for you

As for the knee pain, I'd get a referral to see a sports medicine specialist.

I had knee pain a few years ago that stumped my general practitioner for months. On a whim I asked for a referral to sports med and they were able to diagnose my problem in 30 mins.

Don't be afraid to ask!

Smish

Hey,

Thanks for all you suggestions, I took the advise of the majority, and went to a different lbs, and was professionally fitted. They endedup moving my cleat possition way in, and way back, as well as adjusting my seat angle. The pain is almost completely gone, beside some minor residual soreness. I figure with some anti-inflammatories, and a week or so of rest, it should be gone completely.

Smish

Nicodemus

excellent

East Hill

Nothing like a happy ending, even if I didn't offer any useful advice at all (and now I am ashamed of myself ).

But Welcome to BF!

East Hill