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Belt drive - finally?

Old 09-07-07, 02:08 PM
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atbman
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Belt drive - finally?

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/news/28798/...e-transmission

Belt drive, finally?
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Old 09-07-07, 02:12 PM
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It's been around as long as the shaft-drive. Funny how things that sound like a great idea often don't pan out. But a lot of motorcycles have belt drive these days so who knows.
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Old 09-07-07, 03:07 PM
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This new belt contruction may make a go of it. The only big problem I see is length adjustment. It's either gonna be a lot of belt sizes or a tension idler.
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Old 09-07-07, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Zumba View Post
Internal gearing has to take over first.

Rohloffs have been around for a long time and they're still not popular.
Derailleurs and chain drive are so wonderfully mechanically efficient that they set the bar real high. Whatever is going to supplant them (and I have no doubt that will happen someday) is going to have to be very mechanically efficient even during it's early development.
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Old 09-07-07, 04:35 PM
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Belt-tensioner = squandered energy.
Leaving us either:
~lots of belt sizes
~fixed chainstay (erm... beltstay) & trackbike ****gears
~internal gearing

Belt drives are wonderful for underpowered bikes like Harleys, but they haven't exactly revolutionized motorcycle drivetrains either.

-CCinC
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Old 09-07-07, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Derailleurs and chain drive are so wonderfully mechanically efficient that they set the bar real high. Whatever is going to supplant them (and I have no doubt that will happen someday) is going to have to be very mechanically efficient even during it's early development.
Actually they aren't that far apart. IIRC the total efficiency spread between an internal gear and a dérailleur was only around 3% and quite often in certain gears the dérailleur was less efficient than the IGH. And quite often there are greater losses from wind resistance, riding style, low tire pressures, etc. Those items probably contribute more to speed loss than drive train efficiency.

My biggest issue with the belt drive would be roadside repair...kind of hard to take out a broken link, adjust the wheel and keep on riding...and yes I have broken a link in a chain before.

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Old 09-07-07, 06:15 PM
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To me, this is like electric or hydraulic shifters: Even if you work out all the bugs and get them working wonderfully, how much better can they be than a modern derailleur, or in this case a modern chain drive? It's quiet, efficient, easy to work on, shifts beautifully and doesn't cost much. My road bikes are nothing special--105-level components, mostly, with XT on the Atlantis--but I wouldn't pay a dime for them to work better than they do. They're already as good as I need or want them to be.

Last edited by Velo Dog; 09-07-07 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 09-07-07, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
Actually they aren't that far apart. IIRC the total efficiency spread between an internal gear and a dérailleur was only around 3% and quite often in certain gears the dérailleur was less efficient than the IGH. And quite often there are greater losses from wind resistance, riding style, low tire pressures, etc. Those items probably contribute more to speed loss than drive train efficiency.
I'm not convinced about your statement regarding internal gear efficiency. I've read some quite different numbers but, honestly, it's not the kind of thing that interests me so I haven't studied it in any depth.

As to the greater speed losses, I fully agree. Once you get over about 12 or 15MPH, compared to the effort that's required to push your torso through the air, everything else, including drive train efficiency, is small potatoes.
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Old 09-07-07, 10:45 PM
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forget gears... CVT for bikes. They already have them for 3ton SUVs and cars, can't see how it wouldn't work for a bike.

on second thought I like having gears, and in manual.
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Old 09-08-07, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by AEO View Post
forget gears... CVT for bikes. They already have them for 3ton SUVs and cars, can't see how it wouldn't work for a bike.
Done. http://www.atcnuvinci.com/products_bicycle.php
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Old 09-08-07, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AEO View Post
forget gears... CVT for bikes. They already have them for 3ton SUVs and cars, can't see how it wouldn't work for a bike.
The issue is that the high pressures required to make today's CVTs work eat up power. On an SUV you can just stick in a more powerful motor. A bicycle, on the other hand, has no power to spare.

My bet is it's coming but it's going to take a design breakthrough to make it competitive on a bicycle.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:04 AM
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rohloff's might be more popular if they werent $1500 a pop.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:52 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Zumba View Post
Internal gearing has to take over first.
N.B., Eurobike.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bbattle View Post
It's been around as long as the shaft-drive. Funny how things that sound like a great idea often don't pan out. But a lot of motorcycles have belt drive these days so who knows.
But this one is carbon. So it must be good.
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Old 09-19-07, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
My biggest issue with the belt drive would be roadside repair...kind of hard to take out a broken link, adjust the wheel and keep on riding...and yes I have broken a link in a chain before.

Aaron
They do make kits to repair them for motorcycles.
In one of my previous lives I rode Harleys for years.
I never saw a belt break or heard of one breaking
but I suppose they must, because of said repair kit. Chains
on-the-other hand.....who hasnt broken one ? :eek"
Id like to see belts !
Weighing a bike down with 25lbs of clothes, tools, lunch etc,
Im just not at all concerned about theoretical power loss.
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Old 09-19-07, 04:27 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
My biggest issue with the belt drive would be roadside repair...kind of hard to take out a broken link, adjust the wheel and keep on riding...and yes I have broken a link in a chain before.
Aaron
You could always carry a spare belt for what is probably a very rare event (ie, only worth worrying about if you're touring).
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Old 09-19-07, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
~internal gearing
Internal gear hubs make alot of sense for commuters. Less maintenance than derailleur setups and they don't suffer the effects of weather.

Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
Belt drives are wonderful for underpowered bikes like Harleys, but they haven't exactly revolutionized motorcycle drivetrains either.


Someone's never ridden a built Harley.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:43 PM
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well the christini's have both chain and shaft drive... I think belt drive is next.
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