Some of my bikes have kickstands...

The old cruisers and three speeds all have them as I don't like leaning them against stuff and risking having them crash... the road bikes and mountain bikes don't have them since they are both a hindrance and a hazard.

Double legged kickstand is the way to go in my humble opinion. Whatever suits you though

http://www.bikefront.com/images/products/705/705_1.jpg

those pictures cycocommute posted of the touring bikes lying on their sides made me ponder.... what if he needed the stuff on the down side of the bike?

kickstands are not for 'noobs' operator, but derision of kickstands is a symptom of cycling sophmorism.

You never realize how uncomfortable an upright bike is until you ride something that isn't.
~

My kickstand works great with heavy loads.
I did have to build it myself however:
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...n/general.html

The bike came with a clamp-on stabilizer but that didn't allow loading the grocery baskets or rack very well. (I also had to build the rear rack for this bike, because normal ones wouldn't fit properly)

I found that to work ideally (that is--flip up and down by spring tension) the kickstand would need a pivot that was located rearward of the rear axle and there was no way to do that without welding on the frame, which I was not willing to try yet. Holding the kickstand up with a carabiner is a bit of a hassle, but doesn't much interfere with loading or unloading and won't ever come undone while riding. And even if it did fall down while riding, it would just get noisily dragged along behind, it wouldn't likely cause any catastrophic event.

Mine handles wide loads pretty well I think, I can put two gallons of paint in one of the side baskets with the other side basket empty, and the bike won't fall over. I haven't got any touring bags to try on it.

While I will agree with the reasons for not having a kickstand on a MTB, the rest of it is rather debateable.
If kickstands have never served you well, then it may be that you have never witnessed an effective kickstand.

My other bike, a Cycle Genius Falcon, came with a kickstand too! Mebbe if one bemoans the lack of kickstands, one should start considering buying only bikes that come with them.....
~

quote from Bekologist:
"what if he needed the stuff on the down side of the bike?"

i'm going to take a stab in the dark and say he would take three seconds to pick up the bike.

in any case, cyccommute, i agree with you. A kickstand seems to be completely worthless once you get used to not having one. There will always be something to lean your bike next to, or (G-d forbid) ground to lay it down on.

oh, and those are some nice bikes.

[edit] ... one more thing for 'Yates' ... motorcycles and bicycles are not the same thing.

and what if he wanted things from both sides of the bike, wanted to balance the load, or wasn't sure what side he'd stashed something?

A kickstand is not a 'worthless item' for touring bikes once you get used to not 'having one'

cycocommutes' photo of the bikes lying on their sides is really pretty sad.

much nicer, when you want to dig in your bags for a snack, take a leak, find a shirt, to just stop and...put down the kickstand. hardly 'worthless' for loaded touring.

quote from bekologist (as are the others):
"and what if he wanted things from both sides of the bike, wanted to balance the load, or wasn't sure what side he'd stashed something?"

This is honestly what you worry about? do you lose sleep over this? don't you think he would just turn his bike around? or lean over it to reach the other side?

quote:
"A kickstand is not a 'worthless item' for touring bikes once you get used to not 'having one'"

in my opinion they are. notice how i said "in my opinion".

quote:
"cycocommutes' photo of the bikes lying on their sides is really pretty sad."

no ... not sad ... not even a little.

quote:
"much nicer, when you want to dig in your bags for a snack, take a leak, find a shirt, to just stop and...put down the kickstand."

phooey ... i can do all that stuff without one.

Newsflash: Not everyone uses their bicycles the same way or for the same purpose.

Hence kickstands are essential for some and useless for others.

I'd rather no bike came with them and they instead can be selected as an accessory. Allows for less waste and end user being able to get exactly what they want.

Al

bekologist, i'm saying what noisebeam said with 110% more sarcasm.

So what's the consensus? Are we adding not having a kickstand installed on your bike to the list of things that make you a wannabe pro bike racer or not??

hehe ...

what kind of bag is that? (avatar)

Let me just interject with:

*thumping chest* "I Be Mechanic in Bike Walhalla, The NetherLands"
*pointing wildly* "I sell many kickstand, most new Dutch Bikes come with kickstands, We Dutch know bikes and we make many excellent kickstand!" "Bikes good, bikes with kickstand better!"

Translation: Kickstands seem very useful to me and the vast majority of Dutch cyclists, with the exception of the racer types which is a real minority here. Kickstands are IMHO a very useful and practical product providing they are of a good design (such as the double collapsible Pletscher or the wide one that one posted a picture of) and they are the proper length. A bad kickstand is worse than useless. But there are many great kickstands about. Some of them are even rather light. YMMV.

I have the greenfield rear mounted kick stand on all my bikes except my Mondonico. I can't bring myself to do that. But... I sure wish I did. Seems like I am always out in the middle of a road, with corn all around me. My choice is to climb down the ditch and lean my bike against the corn stalks, or lay the bike on the ground. The look of my Mondonico laying on the ground is so painful, I feel like I've violated the bike somehow. Kickstands are wonderful conveniences. I've used them since I was 11 years old.

As violated as clamping to a beautiful paint job?

whatever happened to the chainstay kickstand brace?

I STILL think those pictures cycocommute posted of the loaded touring bikes laying on their sides, handlebar bags open to spill contents out onto the pavement is sad. what a sad picture. Losing the chapstick, spare change, water dribbling out of the bottles, loads shifting....

for those of you that haven't toured with heavily loaded bikes, once one is over on its' side, it's not like picking up a road bike...

and what if you've got a load like this on the back of the bike? going to lay it down and risk getting things run over?


call me an optimist, but anecdotal evidence has it that kickstands actually work.

Giants still have them, on the kickstand appropriate bikes.

Having mastered the zipper, spilling items has never been an issue(Or clamping the beans and franks :) )

I could pick up my Kz1000(600 plus pounds) when I dropped it and only weighed 130# at the time.

Don't lay your bike down in the street and it will not get run over.

+1. I find kickstands immensely useful. My "best" bike doesn't have one, and I actually miss it at times. As for my beaters, I can't imagine taking kickstands off them ever.

Sure, just like all the bikes currently offered without fenders or any serious methods for their attachment. Too wasteful, and no Real Cyclist would want 'em, and of course the consumer is getting a better deal too, eh?

The lugnut who compiled this page seems to think it's an Amsterdam "trend" to have them! We're the ones careening from balloon bikes, to English racers, to banana bikes, to mountain bikes, to BMX, and on to hybrids, recumbents & more! Hell, we go back & forth like a tennis match. Even Mr. Mountain Bike has come full circle, kickstand & all!

YEP YEP YEP... true about fenders, lights, etc... that used to come on bikes...

now they leave'm off and make us buy'm iffen we want them...

i usd to take them off anyway when i was a kid...

but now i use them... esp. the fenders and kick stand...

I never said there should not be an attachment point, just not the kickstand or fenders. (except for some specific models, as exists today I can buy a bike with fenders and kickstand at most of the LBSs round here)

I bought a bike with fender attachment points intentionally, but I don't use fenders. No need here in AZ. But there may be a time I do need them.

If I wanted a kickstand I'd want a good one, unlikely to come with the bike. If I don't want a kick-stand I don't want to pay for it and its wasteful.

I'd rather by bike didn't come with a front reflector either. I have a collection of them - waste. But its the law for selling the bike (which is odd as it doesn't meet legal requirements to ride the bike at night)

Al

If I need anything out of the bags, I'd take it out before I had to lay the bike down or I'd lean the bike against something. Most all of the stuff I need while riding isn't in the panniers anyway. Riding stuff...ride food, camera, tools, patch kits, glasses, wallet, etc...is carried in my handlebar bag or my Camelbak. And I seldom have to lay my bike down...which was the point.

I also have not derided anyone's use of kickstands. I, personally, have not found them to have utility.

Once my bike is loaded (weight balanced and put on the bike), I always put things back in the same bag. I have a specific location for things I use on the road and in camp. For example, the left side is for things I would have no conceivable need for while riding. Cooking gear...pots, stove, fuel canisters, etc...go in the left front bag. Extra riding clothes...shorts, socks, sleeping/cooking clothes, some toiletries...go in the left rear. Extra food, some toiletries, utensils, some snacks (extras) go in the right front. Cold and foul weather gear and writing/reading material go in the right rear. My logic is that if I have to get something out, like rain gear or more food, it's on the right side of the bike away from traffic.

I've used kickstands with loaded bikes. I just never found them useful. I spent more time picking up the bike than I liked. Additionally, Colorado has never been that generous with their shoulders. Often a shoulder ends at the point the asphalt ends and, often, the drop to the bar ditch is 2 to 3 abrupt feet. Kickstands don't do any good there. If the bike is going to fall over or have to be laid down anyway, why carry something extra?

No need for you to be sad about the contents of my handlebar bag. I don't put stuff in my handlebar bag like change or Chapstick (I don't use that anyway;)). My water bottles don't leak. If they did, I'd replace them. I seldom lay my bike down. In that 800 mile trip, I did it maybe twice. Picking up the bike has never been a problem. And, in my experience, having a bike crash to the ground because the kickstand failed to hold the bike up is far sadder than just laying it on the ground in the first place.

And, as others have pointed out, once you get used to not having them, you don't miss them. They don't work on certain bikes. Mountain bikes? A liability if you are riding rugged trails and there isn't that much room for them in an area of the bike that already gets lot of smutz. Tandems? Not likely. They might fit but their utility would be limited. And some bikes are just too weak in the area where you need to clamp them.

If you own enough bikes that don't need them, you find that you don't need them.