Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!
View Poll Results: Would you buy/use a bike that used a belt rather than a chain?
Yes, I already do
2.17%
Yes, I haven't got one yet, but i plan to.
6.52%
No, I would need to try one first
69.57%
No, Never
21.74%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

Belt drives

Old 11-20-07, 11:39 AM
  #1  
Strathclyde_Uni
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Belt drives

I'm trying to guage the opinion of the more serious bikers on belt driver v tradtion chains.

There's a lot of development right now in trying to create a commercially successful bike belt and pulley system.

Any comments would be greaty appriecated.

Here's a couple of links incase you don't know much about it...

https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/news/28798/...e-transmission

https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/news/28981/...ith-belt-drive
Strathclyde_Uni is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 11:44 AM
  #2  
edzo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
nope.

belts rob energy vs a steel chain on metal cogs.

nuff said.

belts are quiet and strong,
but 1% or 2% energy loss is still energy loss
edzo is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 12:05 PM
  #3  
CaptainCool
``````````````
 
CaptainCool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: san jose
Posts: 763
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by edzo View Post
belts rob energy vs a steel chain on metal cogs.
read the links
CaptainCool is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 12:14 PM
  #4  
edzo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by CaptainCool View Post
read the links
I did read the links and it is just 'Claims' that the belt is as efficient as a chain,
but no data no proof and the belt is not even in production


so I stand by what I said.

chains are better
---
and I don't care if they have a belt that is 99% efficient...whatever transmission
it will have to connect to will rob far more energy than a chain and cogs

only a singlespeed belt would be any good IMHO

so...go ahead dream of a belt drive. if it is multi-geared or have ratios,
it will never, ever be as efficient as a chain and cogs
edzo is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 12:34 PM
  #5  
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 12,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If the technology works it could be versy useful for muddy off roading and mucky winter commuting with a hub gear. Could also be good for cleaner folding bikes. I doubt it will make a dent in the racing or performance market but there are other types of riding.
MichaelW is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 01:02 PM
  #6  
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Murica
Posts: 2,275
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 9 Posts
What happens when the timing pulleys get clogged with dirt?
colombo357 is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 03:41 PM
  #7  
Svr
Senior Member
 
Svr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The belt drive idea has potential, but it will have to endure real world testing by being on the market for 5-8 years before I'd consider buying into it.
Svr is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 04:12 PM
  #8  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,759
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 26 Posts
The proof is in the pudding. People would use barbed wire for a chain if they could go 0.1 mph faster. Assuming you don't have significant drawbacks such as breakage, slippage, clogging, etc.

One problem is that chains are already fairly efficient, so it's hard to improve on them. Having something "as efficient" means it's not any better, so you've got to have some other selling point to move it. Coming up with something more effiicient is hard because there's not that much room left before you hit 100%.
StephenH is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 04:12 PM
  #9  
CaptainCool
``````````````
 
CaptainCool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: san jose
Posts: 763
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by edzo View Post
only a singlespeed belt would be any good IMHO
Naturally. Or internally geared.

I'm not exactly signing up to preorder, but there's nothing in those articles that makes me dismiss this out of hand. I don't see how the rest of the powertrain would necessarily be worse than the rest of a chain-driven system.

Looks like https://www.gatesprograms.com/carbon/ has a white paper if you register.
CaptainCool is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 04:39 PM
  #10  
DieselDan
Senior Member
 
DieselDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
Posts: 8,521

Bikes: Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shill!!!
DieselDan is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 05:15 PM
  #11  
CaptainCool
``````````````
 
CaptainCool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: san jose
Posts: 763
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by DieselDan View Post
Shill!!!
Yeah, I wish.
CaptainCool is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 05:23 PM
  #12  
Bruce_B
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would be interested. They have been using belt drives on motorcycles forever, so why not a bicycle?
Bruce_B is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 05:48 PM
  #13  
Trengot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 7

Bikes: Specialized Stumpjumper 2005

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bruce_B View Post
They have been using belt drives on motorcycles forever, so why not a bicycle?
The belt doesn't have to move on a motorbike does it (sideways). So its effectively a singlespeed.
Trengot is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 06:14 PM
  #14  
Ornery
Senior Member
 
Ornery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 215

Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Belts make a LOT of sense on bikes I'd ride, which would exclude any archaic derailleur system. Belt material has advanced as much as tires, and they don't suffer from stretching or wear the sprockets. They're used in extreme conditions in machines and auto engines, and are priced competitively when in high production. It's conceivable they could weigh less than a chain system, so I imagine weight weenies would be all over it!
Ornery is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 06:56 PM
  #15  
Bruce_B
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Trengot View Post
The belt doesn't have to move on a motorbike does it (sideways). So its effectively a singlespeed.
https://sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html
Bruce_B is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 07:02 PM
  #16  
CommuterRun
Conservative Hippie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wakulla Co. FL
Posts: 4,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'd have to try it first, but wouldn't just write it off out of hand. I don't race, so the energy loss would most likely be immaterial for commuting and utility purposes, over ease of maintenance.
CommuterRun is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 07:48 PM
  #17  
Velo Dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 3,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm not particularly opposed, but this seems like one of those answers to questions nobody has asked, like electric shifting. Drivelines are already quiet, efficient and easy to maintain; there just doesn't seem to be any NEED for a belt drive. I'd certainly try one if they were available, but it would have to be spectacularly good to convince me, and I don't know that there's much room for improvement.
Velo Dog is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 09:32 PM
  #18  
halfspeed
Senior Member
 
halfspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Posts: 12,275

Bikes: are better than yours.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Bruce_B View Post
I would be interested. They have been using belt drives on motorcycles forever, so why not a bicycle?
Because inefficiencies in a motorcycle drivetrain can be compensated for by a few extra pennies at the pump while the cost of inefficiencies on a bicycle can only be compensated by increased output, reduced performance, or greater fatigue over the same distance.

Somebody, quick, start an airless tires thread!
halfspeed is offline  
Old 11-20-07, 09:55 PM
  #19  
Bruce_B
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
Because inefficiencies in a motorcycle drivetrain can be compensated for by a few extra pennies at the pump while the cost of inefficiencies on a bicycle can only be compensated by increased output, reduced performance, or greater fatigue over the same distance.

Somebody, quick, start an airless tires thread!
According to the article, their belt can match or exceed the efficiency of a chain. Not that it would necessarily replace chain drives, but we can have more than one option can't we. A belt drive could offer some advantages that might make it worthwhile for some.
Bruce_B is offline  
Old 11-21-07, 06:07 AM
  #20  
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Velo Dog View Post
I'm not particularly opposed, but this seems like one of those answers to questions nobody has asked, like electric shifting. Drivelines are already quiet, efficient and easy to maintain; there just doesn't seem to be any NEED for a belt drive. I'd certainly try one if they were available, but it would have to be spectacularly good to convince me, and I don't know that there's much room for improvement.
Nope, don't need belt drive. Don't need pneumatic tires either. Just think of the efficiency loss having to overcome all the deflection in the carcass as the wheel turns!

I see an upside to belt drive. No clean & lube, longer service interval on both the belt and the drive/driven units. The possibility of an infinite ratio CV transmission.

Remember... "No one will ever need more than 256k of RAM."
__________________
Stacey is offline  
Old 11-21-07, 06:20 AM
  #21  
dynaryder
PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes
 
dynaryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BicycleSPACE warehouse in SW Washington DC
Posts: 6,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Belt drive bike:
https://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=69

I'd get one if it was more than a 3sp.

I've used belts for years on my Harleys. Much nicer than chains. No lubing/mess,less noise,fewer adjustments,longer life. They make alot of sense for IG hub applications.
__________________

C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
dynaryder is offline  
Old 11-21-07, 10:20 AM
  #22  
deraltekluge
Senior Member
 
deraltekluge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,195

Bikes: Kona Cinder Cone, Sun EZ-3 AX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
I'd get one if it was more than a 3sp.
How about a belt drive CVT (continuously variable transmission)? Wouldn't that be the next step?
deraltekluge is offline  
Old 11-21-07, 10:46 AM
  #23  
GeoLes
Black La Lane
 
GeoLes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 317

Bikes: EPX 303 (You probably never heard of it)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It seems to have great potential. I know they have been used on motorcycles for years. I don't know much about motor bikes, but it seems that there is little "lateral" movement on the part of a motorcycle belt. The bike chain is part of the transmission system on a bike and the chain has to move side to side in order to change gears. I wonder how reliable the belt will do in shifting. I can imagine shift failure due to lateral belt flex, which you don't find with a metal chain.

It would work well if the deraileur system is replaced by some sort of internal transmission system system. Unfortunately, internal systems tend to be heavier and bulkier, hence not suitable for performance bikes. But, we never know what the bike industry will be able to produce.
GeoLes is offline  
Old 11-21-07, 09:42 PM
  #24  
geo8rge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,015
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Belt drive is not mature yet.
__________________
2000 Montague CX, I do not recommend it, but still ride it.
Strida 3, I recommend it for rides < 10mi wo steep hills.
2006 Rowbike 720 Sport, I recommend it as an exercise bike.
1996 Birdy, Recommend.
Wieleder CARiBIKE (folding), decent frame.
geo8rge is offline  
Old 11-21-07, 11:59 PM
  #25  
Thor29
Senior Member
 
Thor29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I ride a single speed mountain bike. For that application it would be awesome - long life and no chain-lube. However, there are some serious limitations - 1. Can't retrofit it to my bike (the belt is a continuous loop so you need a way to get it inside the rear triangle. 2. There would need to be quite a few stock sizes of belt and cog sizes. This would be a hassle for dealers who stock the system, and a pain in the neck if you wanted to change your gear ratio. (This is one reason they aren't more common on motorcycles - if you wanted to change your final drive ratio by changing sprocket sizes it's no big deal, but I seriously doubt that any of the belt driven motorcycles even have that option).
Thor29 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.