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LBS Rant
I don't know if this is the right forum, but I've got to vent a little.
I believe is supporting the local guy. I believe this for a number of reasons however suffice it to say that I will even go out of my way to support a local shop; any local shop. That being said, I am, fortunately or unfortunately, in an area where there are not a great deal of competition when it comes to bike shops. There are two here, which are both owned by the same person. They have worked on my bike and that has not been the problem; it's there CS that's the problem. I ask them about ordering clothing items to see the fit (jackets). I was told that I would have to pay for it and if it didn't fit, tough or I would have to pay the shipping BACK to the manufacturer for a different size. If the manufacturer didn't make a size that fit, I was SOL and should keep the tags on it and sell it on ebay. Next, I currently have a set of tires on my bike that was recommended to me by the owner. They are Specialized Pros. Well I have been unimpressed with their performance to the point that I don't know I would use them again. I called him and asked for another recommendation. He told me he doesn't want to give me one as the last time it didn't work out (for me). I told him there was more than one way to skin a cat. He told me my opinion of the tires was just that, my opinion, and he sells a number of them with no complaints so I must be wrong. I don't know if I was spoiled because the last shop I dealt with were so great, they are the standard by which CS is judged, of if my expectations are too high. As much as I hate to do it, I may have to become my own mechanic and mail order for everything. I really don't think this guy is going to get any of my business again. Rant off. |
Maybe it's a good time for you to consider opening a good bike shop in your area..?
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Don't ever accept "take it or leave it" attitude. Most of the major retailers would be long gone with that attitude.
You buy it your stuck with it. I don't think so. Screw him! |
If you need recommendations for tires, the best place to find such information is online. My LBS was raving about a particular bicycle when I was shopping for one; well when I went online and surfed around it became apparent that the bike was a bad choice. So I bought another bike... When it comes to size though; I just buy my stuff online... You have 3-4 choices, small, medium, large, or XL; when you find a product you like call up / visit the companies website to figure out the recommended sizing; ie my under armor tights are XL, though all my other clothes are of the size large.
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Sizing is not too difficult if you consult the charts and search for reviews. Most reviews comment on size or your can private mail the poster. Most brands follow European sizing so they run small. If you get a little experience with the brands, you will know how to order. Some brands I require a large and others I take xlarge. Shoes are the exception. I recommend trying them on and purchasing locally. I tried on several brands and models and found one that fit like a glove and I liked much better than any of the others. I have been extremely happy with my purchase. Shoes and pedals are critical purchases and IMHO you need to try them.
Regarding tires, if you are that discerning you will just have to try some until you find the ones that you want. If someone recommends a high quality product and you do not like it, then you are on your own. Anybody's guess is as good as anybody else's, so it might as well be yours. I personally can't tell one tire from another. My criteria is that they don't lose grip or flat and last a reasonable number of miles. Other than that they are pretty much the same. Regarding the clothing ordering, his terms are the same as everybody else's. It helps if you have realistic expectations. |
If this is the ONLY shop and you want the option of buying local, you could always contact a representative of the products you like that are in this one LBS. They'll talk to the guy and if they're concerned that he's not representing their brand properly, they'll educate him or pull products.
I know, it's convoluted and not really worth the time, but it's an option. And yes, too many brands will not care, but there are plenty that are extremely concerned. |
Originally Posted by MPR
(Post 5882362)
I ask them about ordering clothing items to see the fit (jackets). I was told that I would have to pay for it and if it didn't fit, tough or I would have to pay the shipping BACK to the manufacturer for a different size. If the manufacturer didn't make a size that fit, I was SOL and should keep the tags on it and sell it on ebay.
More info @ https://www124.americanexpress.com/c...ection2003.pdf -or- http://tinyurl.com/2yuj27 ◄this link redirects to the AMEX site, the real URL is over 200 characters long. From their website: •No More Shopping Regrets - Return Protection offers guaranteed product satisfaction on designated items purchased entirely with an eligible American Express® Card. •If you try to return an eligible item purchased in the U.S. within 90 days from the date of purchase and the merchant won't take it back, American Express will refund the purchase price. •Up to $300 Coverage - You are covered for up to $300 per item, excluding shipping and handling, up to $1,000 annually per Card account. I have never had to use this feature but it does offer peace of mind when dealing with a shop like you described. *I have no affiliation with American Express other than as a card member |
Every story has two sides.
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Who do you think should pay for shipping an unwanted item back to the manufacturer?
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Originally Posted by supcom
(Post 5883831)
Who do you think should pay for shipping an unwanted item back to the manufacturer?
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Originally Posted by MPR
(Post 5882362)
I ask them about ordering clothing items to see the fit (jackets). I was told that I would have to pay for it and if it didn't fit, tough or I would have to pay the shipping BACK to the manufacturer for a different size. If the manufacturer didn't make a size that fit, I was SOL and should keep the tags on it and sell it on ebay.
Originally Posted by MPR
(Post 5882362)
Next, I currently have a set of tires on my bike that was recommended to me by the owner. They are Specialized Pros. Well I have been unimpressed with their performance to the point that I don't know I would use them again. I called him and asked for another recommendation. He told me he doesn't want to give me one as the last time it didn't work out (for me). I told him there was more than one way to skin a cat. He told me my opinion of the tires was just that, my opinion, and he sells a number of them with no complaints so I must be wrong.
I don't know if I was spoiled because the last shop I dealt with were so great, they are the standard by which CS is judged, of if my expectations are too high. As much as I hate to do it, I may have to become my own mechanic and mail order for everything. I really don't think this guy is going to get any of my business again. Rant off.[/QUOTE] |
You want the LBS to special order a jacket that they do not carry and if it does not fit, you want them to cover all the shipping cost.
Makes me wonder who is being unreasonable. Edit: Maybe you should try a clothing store and see if they will order it for you under the conditions you demand. |
Originally Posted by MPR
(Post 5883854)
The manufacturer or the store, not the consumer. The manufacturer should eat the shipping. It's a small price to pay for an eventual sale.
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Originally Posted by CB HI
(Post 5883921)
What guarantee did you provide them that you would eventually buy a jacket from them?
But let's say hypothetically that I gained or loss a great deal of weight. Let's say I moved two sizes. I don't know what size I "need", I only know I want that model. I'm going to buy the item, but want the correct size. If a bike store does not want a high overhead and inventory to carry every size and every color (which is reasonable), then he should be willing to accommodate those customers that fall outside the middle of the road. That's the price of doing business. On a side note as a response to an earlier post about tires. BearSquirrel, I'm not a "demanding" customer, all I was asking for was option #2. There are dozens of tire manufacturers out there and I would expect a shop owner to have more than one option available. So I believe his response to my "I don't care for these tires because of x, y, z," should have been "I'm sorry to hear that. Why don't we try a, b, or c as I have had very good reports of those brands. Then I would have said great, let's try b. I guess I'm lucky I don't get gun shy with my customers if they don't like my first idea. |
I think it depends on how the interactions have actually gone to determine who's unreasonable. An example - my favorite LBS owner is a decent friend of mine. He is a love him or hate him type of guy, and he knows it. So, his dealings with customers are either considered great or abrasive. I know people who either won't go to another shop or won't step foot into his shop. He doesn't care. In fact, he has asked people to leave if he thinks they're more of a pain than they're worth.
Personally, I often hope that the LBS doesn't stock something - gives me an excuse to buy cheaper online. However, I have seen him go ahead and order something that I asked about, eventhough I had offered no intention to buy. Also, I don't know that I get too bent out of shape over someone's recommendation, especially over something like a tire that I can replace easily. I've had my friend make suggestions that went against things I read online; usually I do a little research before getting anything. In any case, I wouldn't bother to ask for a second recommendation for a tire if I wasn't too happy with his first one. |
OK OP, let me get this straight. You want the shop to order you a jacket based on what you read in a magazine, catalog, or on the internet. Now its something the shop dosent normaly order and your not sure of your size but you think that the shop should pay the postage and the cost of the jacket that may or not fit you. Did you offer to pay for the jacket in advance? No?
Do you think that the vedor is just going to send the jacket to the shop with out the shop paying for it? I think the owner of your LBS is entirely within his rights. Why should he get stuck with something in his shop that you wanted (or thought you wanted) but after it came iin you decided you dint wnat or that it didnt fit? With this attitude i dont think I would recomend a tire to you either. Did you bother to tell him why you were less then impressed with them? Were you getting dropped on rides because you thought the tire wasnt right? Sorry to tell you thats the engine not the tire. Were they prone to flats? Maybe you were using them purpous for other then the purpous that they were deisigned for/ As in you were trying to use a race type tire on roads that were better designed for the use of an all purpous tire. For example around here. N.E. Ohio when winter hits everyone of us pulls our nice little racing slicks off nad replace them with things lie conti gatorskins or the likes. Most pf us evan run cross bike with cross tires on the roads from November till March. I gusess now is the point to add that I recently ordered a jacket from my local shop. He did not ask for payment up front nor would he take payment before it came in. BUT he know evan thouhg we went with the best guess on size( i tried his on it was to small so we went from there). Were not talking a cheap jacket either were talking about something that was evan custom printed(Our team does not normalyy have a wither jacket done witht the team design but I wanted one for racing cross in.) But He knows that evan if for some reason it dose not fit I will pay for it and resell it at my loss or gain.And yes If there was a shipping charge on the bill I will pick that up as well. Because that is the way it should be done. You wnated some special so you sould be willing to pAY FOR IT. |
Originally Posted by MPR
(Post 5883854)
The manufacturer or the store, not the consumer. The manufacturer should eat the shipping. It's a small price to pay for an eventual sale.
You are "considering" buying a single jacket...the manufacturer sells tens of thousands of them, they could care less about that single sale. And in many cases does not accept returns unless it is a defective product. We special order items all the time. Depending on the customer; are they are good customer, repeat customer, PITA customer, etc, is the item something we might be able to sell to someone else? Based on those criteria we may special order something and not require a non refundable deposit. If we ordered everything everybody thought they wanted and then didn't take we would have a store full of odd merchandise that we would have to discount to get rid of, causing us to lose money and no longer be there for our customers. I have no idea how the Amex thing works, we no longer accept their cards in our store. Aaron:) |
First off, You MUST become your own mechanic. It's not that tough with the help of a good repair manual available at most bookstores. Second, you will soon get the hang of tuning your drivetrain, and forevermore, it will always work really well. Not that LBS tuning is bad, but you can adjust it whenever it gets even slightly off. Third, the money you save on LBS work will pay for the tools in no time. Fourth, if there is trouble on the trail, you will know your bike intimately, and most likely, can do a limp home fix right there. What could be better than that? bk
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First Milice I want to thank you for posting and giving me your opinion. However, I've got to point out that you are making WAY too many assumptions. Let's look at a couple and see if what I have said gives you a different perspective.
Originally Posted by Milice
(Post 5886335)
OK OP, let me get this straight. You want the shop to order you a jacket based on what you read in a magazine, catalog, or on the internet. Now its something the shop dosent normaly order Wrong here. It is an item the store normally carries, just not in "my size. and your not sure of your size but you think that the shop should pay the postage and the cost of the jacket that may or not fit you. Did you offer to pay for the jacket in advance? No? You may not have seen or read my above post where I stated I would pay for the jacket in advance.
Do you think that the vedor is just going to send the jacket to the shop with out the shop paying for it? I think the owner of your LBS is entirely within his rights. Why should he get stuck with something in his shop that you wanted (or thought you wanted) but after it came iin you decided you dint wnat or that it didnt fit?See above: Jacket = already paid for With this attitude i dont think I would recomend a tire to you either. You and I didn't speak, nor do you know the entire story so making a judgment on my "attitude" is a little premature here. The conversation was very amiable from the standpoint of both parties Did you bother to tell him why you were less then impressed with them? Yes, in specific detail why I was not happy. Were you getting dropped on rides because you thought the tire wasnt right? Sorry to tell you thats the engine not the tire.This last statement borders on the ridiculous. First, I mentioned nothing about being on a group, ride, or race where the tires "performance" lent itself as an excuse for my shortcomings. Please elaborate where you got that impression. Were they prone to flats?Yes, along with rapid wear. Maybe you were using them purpous for other then the purpous that they were deisigned for/ As in you were trying to use a race type tire on roads that were better designed for the use of an all purpous tire.No, I bought training tires to put a lot of miles on ridden on roads that may not be stellar. That was the criteria I spoke with him about before the initial purchase. For example around here. N.E. Ohio when winter hits everyone of us pulls our nice little racing slicks off nad replace them with things lie conti gatorskins or the likes. Most pf us evan run cross bike with cross tires on the roads from November till March. I gusess now is the point to add that I recently ordered a jacket from my local shop. He did not ask for payment up front nor would he take payment before it came in. BUT he know evan thouhg we went with the best guess on size( i tried his on it was to small so we went from there). Were not talking a cheap jacket either were talking about something that was evan custom printed(Our team does not normalyy have a wither jacket done witht the team design but I wanted one for racing cross in.) But He knows that evan if for some reason it dose not fit I will pay for it and resell it at my loss or gain.And yes If there was a shipping charge on the bill I will pick that up as well. Because that is the way it should be done. You wnated some special so you sould be willing to pAY FOR IT. As I said earlier, I was willing to pay for it up front. Now as I mentioned in a previous post I don't expect any vendor to stock every item made. But I don't think ordering an one additional product in a line he regularly carries and sells is out of the question, especially given the fact that there is a 100% possibility of a sale as long as the criteria of fit is met. Clothing is seasonal but I don't think necessarily goes out of style. I believe it would not be a big gamble for the storekeep. Thanks everyone for your input. |
Anytime I've ordered anything in from my LBS that they normally don't stock, I owe them shipping up front. If I decline the item when it arrives, then they keep the shipping. I've never found that unreasonable, because if I order something online and decide to exchange it...well...I end up paying shipping.
Depending on the nature of the item and if they decide to keep it and sell it, they may order a different one in a different size and not charge me shipping the second time around. It all depends on the circumstances. Edit: Obviously, if it's an item they normally stock, they simply order it...if I don't buy it it goes on the shelf. |
Originally Posted by bkaapcke
(Post 5887758)
First off, You MUST become your own mechanic. It's not that tough with the help of a good repair manual available at most bookstores. Second, you will soon get the hang of tuning your drivetrain, and forevermore, it will always work really well. Not that LBS tuning is bad, but you can adjust it whenever it gets even slightly off. Third, the money you save on LBS work will pay for the tools in no time. Fourth, if there is trouble on the trail, you will know your bike intimately, and most likely, can do a limp home fix right there. What could be better than that? bk
As far as the clothing goes I can sympathize somewhat with the LBS . If they can't move clothing on the rack they often have to sell it below cost at the end of the season. As for special orders, having a no return policy or a return fee isn't that unreasonable, most every small retailer has this policy. Some will offer to resell the item for you on consignment. You are better off with the mail order houses usually on clothing since they often have liberal return policies. |
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