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-   -   Shimanos new marketing and your wallet (https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/39784-shimanos-new-marketing-your-wallet.html)

SamDaBikinMan 10-24-03 08:46 PM

Shimanos new marketing and your wallet
 
I was talking with a well respected bike retailer local to me the other day and found out that we can look for significant increases in Shimano stuff this next season.

Seems thay are changing the marketing strategies a bit and are fixing the bottom end retail prices so that a retailer must charge X ( minimum )amount or lose Shimano product lines. And the new price list that he showed me was outrageous. I'll be looking seriously at alternatives to Shimano.

Of course it works out good for LBS in that online marketers are subject to the same minimums. The consumer loses on this deal however.

Chris L 10-24-03 08:49 PM

I've seen X-mart stores often advertising "Shimano" on their bikes, could this move be an attempt to eliminate them?

Aloner 10-24-03 08:50 PM

I thought price fixing was illegal?

Chris L 10-24-03 08:56 PM


Originally Posted by Aloner
I thought price fixing was illegal?

In this country it is, however, the law is very vague and does allow for loopholes sometimes. Basically, if Shimano could argue to a judge that there were other reasons for discontinuing to supply a particular retailer (possibly that the shop owner lacks in expertise on the product, or doesn't have the proper capacity to display it properly or something on those lines) they could get away with dumping retailers. Of course, if they start doing it too often, they may not be able to convince too many judges.

randya 10-24-03 10:39 PM

I think Shimano is overrated in the first place. My preference has always been Suntour from way back. Suntour is still available in Europe, but for some reason has been entirely supplanted by Shimano here in the USA. I say boycott the tossers if they can't be reasonable!

BigFloppyLlama 10-24-03 10:53 PM

How much did dura ace cost last year? My local store is offering 2004 dura ace minus the hubs for $1300. I was under the impression that it was just about the same price last year.

randya 10-24-03 11:09 PM

Can you line-item what exactly you get for $1300? I bought a Shimano Dura-ace rear derailleur back in about '81, and it was a piece of crap, didn't last six months. I can't imagine paying $1300 for this stuff...please, elucidate me on why this is desirable equipment at a reasonable price...

MKRG 10-25-03 01:55 AM

Holy Crap!!! 1300 is more than I paid for my bike! And it wasn't a cheap one. No wonder cycling is not popular. The average schmoe can only afford a second hand Huffy. You would think that you could get a quality bicycle for $1000

Bokkie 10-25-03 05:47 AM


Originally Posted by Chris L
In this country it is, however, the law is very vague and does allow for loopholes sometimes. Basically, if Shimano could argue to a judge that there were other reasons for discontinuing to supply a particular retailer (possibly that the shop owner lacks in expertise on the product, or doesn't have the proper capacity to display it properly or something on those lines) they could get away with dumping retailers. Of course, if they start doing it too often, they may not be able to convince too many judges.

A large retail supermarket in the UK, Tesco, was hauled into court by Levi for selling their jeans for way less than 50% of the Levi store prices. Levi argued that consumers need to be able trust the source of their products, and that the brand would be compromised by selling it in less than ideal environments. In short, the usual bullsh1t you expect from a company like that. The jeans are made in the same dirty sweatshops in Mexico and the Phillippines for a few dollars. Levi won. Consumers lost.

shokhead 10-25-03 07:04 AM

Gee,i feel better to know shimano will be the only one to raise prices,thanks for the info.

threadend 10-25-03 07:31 AM

Shimanos new marketing and your wallet
 
Marketing 101 - Price product at a cost the market will bear that maximizes profit within marketshare.

Consumerism 101 - Evaluate product using cost vs. benefit analysis when making purchasing choices.

Fail either class and suffer the financial consequences. Pretty basic stuff ;)

Ohio Trekker 10-25-03 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by Aloner
I thought price fixing was illegal?

I think price-fixing has more to do with one company getting together with another company say Shimano & Campy decide they are going to charge everyone X amount for similar products that would be price-fixing. Not so sure that one company unless they have a monopoly can be found guilty of price-fixing. That's the primary reason utility companies who have/had monopolies in markets were governed when it came to rate changes.

JCM800 10-25-03 11:10 AM

I'm curious to know how Shimano got so big. Years ago their components were found on entry level bikes and wasn't exactly impressive.

Regards.

shokhead 10-25-03 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by JCM800
I'm curious to know how Shimano got so big. Years ago their components were found on entry level bikes and wasn't exactly impressive.

Regards.

You can find them on most any bike,from walmart to tdf.

orguasch 10-25-03 04:25 PM

[I will be going full campy next year :D :D

ngateguy 10-25-03 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by JCM800
I'm curious to know how Shimano got so big. Years ago their components were found on entry level bikes and wasn't exactly impressive.

Regards.

They bought suntour and used to make really good fishing reels. I have heard that Shimano was going to crack down un un authorized sales of their parts I didn't realize they were going to make us consumers grab our ankles when they did it. I really miss suntour they made some great stuff. My first Bianchi was all suntour. My friend still owns a Nishiki with suntours I find it a joy to work on it.

ljbike 10-25-03 04:45 PM

Since the American dollar is currently worth about .87 cents compared to the Euro dollar, you are going to find substantial price increases coming from Europe. The increases began this year but will be much higher in 2004.

I believe there is a law, here in the states, that says a company can not dictate how high a price you can charge. Companies get around that by saying how little you must sell it for in order to retain your ability to stock certain products.

JCM800 10-25-03 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by ngateguy
They bought suntour and used to make really good fishing reels. I have heard that Shimano was going to crack down un un authorized sales of their parts I didn't realize they were going to make us consumers grab our ankles when they did it. I really miss suntour they made some great stuff. My first Bianchi was all suntour. My friend still owns a Nishiki with suntours I find it a joy to work on it.

I remember those 10 spds and Suntour. There was also a lot of Campy, Simplex and Huret around in the old daze. I guess I never gave much thought to Shimano,but they sure are big today. Maybe too big?

Regards.

ParamountScapin 10-25-03 05:47 PM

Shimano is the same way with their fishing equipment. You cannot find it on discount. They have used the time proven method of buying up market share and now that they have some 90% in the north American market they will use this muscle to put pricing controls on their products.

BTW, Campy Forever! It is better gear, in any event.

ngateguy 10-25-03 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by ljbike
I believe there is a law, here in the states, that says a company can not dictate how high a price you can charge. Companies get around that by saying how little you must sell it for in order to retain your ability to stock certain products.

There is a law against price fixing where more than one company in a certain market get together and set prices like what happen in the recording industry. There is a law against what I believe they call dumping which is under cutting your competitors to corner the market. But there is no law against shimano saying you have to sell our product at this rate or you can not sell our product.

ngateguy 10-25-03 05:52 PM

I might add that doesn't mean you have to buy Shimano, maybe its time to check out campy

Aloner 10-25-03 06:09 PM

Check out SRAM if you're an MTBer.

JCM800 10-25-03 09:21 PM


Originally Posted by Aloner
Check out SRAM if you're an MTBer.

I'm real pleased with the reliability of my SRAM grip shifters and just switched to a SRAM PC-68 chain,which is high quality and the power link is outasite and fast to work with. I may give their derailleurs a wirl,since I don't like big monopolies which is what Shimano has become.

Regards.

randya 10-25-03 11:09 PM

I've got Suntour shocks on the European Trek I bought last year, so Suntour is still making some components, but possibly not doing distribution anymore in the US?

kevmetric 10-25-03 11:44 PM

SunTour is fine!


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