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Originally Posted by mp123
(Post 7152923)
People that exercise their rights with no thought to their obligations are a problem wether they are on bikes or in cars.
Share the road... |
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I think the important thing is to remember to abide by laws which were not written with cyclists in mind, and carefully do nothing to either advocate for change or bring those laws to the attention of policymakers. Under no circumstances should effort be taken to make riding safer for commuters and persons running errands. Cycling should remain if at all possible either a recreational activity for the wealthy or a dangerous activity pawned off on those of lesser means.
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Originally Posted by Rob_E
(Post 7159382)
I've been doing our local CM ride for a few months now. It's a lot of fun, and I think our group does a good job about trying not to be too disruptive. The route is often mainly on multi lane roads, and we try to stick to the right lane to allow cars to pass. If the head of our pack gets to a light that is red or yellow, we stop. But we do continue on through lights that change while we're in the process of going through them. I have mixed feelings about this, but I tend to go along with it. I realize we are breaking the law, but I also realize that, as far as disrupting traffic goes, several small groups of bikes with cars trapped in between them probably creates more hazards than one big group. And several cyclists stopping after an intersection to wait for their group to catch up with them would also be disruptive to traffic and illegal. Since the purpose is to ride together, and the consequences of breaking up the group are at least as disruptive as running the light to stay together, I've made my peace with that aspect of CM.
On the other hand, I disagree wholeheartedly with the OPs generalizations that CM participants believe they have a right to ride illegally. I think they have a right to assembly, and the traffic violations are a side effect of exerting that right. And I don't find that the Critical Mass ride does anything to encourage people to ride illegally in other situations. When riding solo or in a small group, I always obey the traffic laws as much as possible (there's always a few lights that won't change for me, and I do admit to going by stop signs if I can see that no other vehicles are going to be in the intersection at the same time), and I routinely see other cyclists doing the same. It may be that it's different in other areas, but my feeling is that when someone sees a cyclist breaking the law, it sticks in their mind, and when someone sees a cyclist obeying the law, they have nothing to get upset about, so the incident does not stick in their mind. As I cyclist, I notice all the other cyclists and notice whether they are law-abiding or not. I find that the vast majority are behaving as they should, but even with me, the girl on the road bike who seemed perfectly comfortable riding in traffic and waiting at the stop light this morning will soon fade from memory, but the idiot riding in the bike lane going to wrong way and making me swerve into traffic to avoid him last month will stick with me. So I can easily see how the idea that cyclists are mostly law-breakers could get started, but I also don't think that it's actually true, and it would be great if cyclists in particular could try to avoid spreading that particular myth. For me, Critical Mass is about asserting our right to be on the road and about making the public aware that a sufficient number of cyclists are on the road. It's not about breaking the law, but that's not to say that an occasional law does not get broken. Also it's just a fun ride. |
Originally Posted by Kimmitt
(Post 7165170)
Under no circumstances should effort be taken to make riding safer for commuters and persons running errands.
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Originally Posted by goldfishin
(Post 7167487)
sarcasm?
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I HATE critical *ass! What are they protesting anyway? Seattle cyclists are the worst. They don't comply with helmet laws. They don't stop at traffic lights or stop signs. They ride at reckless speeds on the sidewalks (I'm sorry but if you can't ride on the roads, you shouldn't be biking). Then Seattle's critical *ass decides to block the flow of traffic in the Capital Hill district?!? F-you critical *ass. I'm glad some of you were hit by a car. Obey the 'effing law and quit blocking traffic once a month and I bet you get hit by cars much more infrequently. I've almost been hit while on my bike by Seattle cyclists running red lights! I watch Seattle cyclists break the law everyday because it's convenient for them. Just the other day a cyclists blew through a light I was waiting at on my bike and justified it by saying to me that the light wasn't recognizing us. Thirty seconds later, once the light changed, I starting cycling again. What I'm trying to say is that you CM peeps (and others) can use any excuse you want for breaking the law, but you are still breaking the law...
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It just may be we are contributing to Critical Mass and their agenda when we should be ignoring them? My last post on this issue.
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Originally Posted by NeoGeek
(Post 7172966)
I HATE critical *ass! What are they protesting anyway?
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I don't support CM because, excluding the proverbial exceptions which don't disprove the general rule, it strikes me as an exercise in hypocrisy. You don't earn respect from others by intentionally sending out disrespect to those same people. You can't induce more lawful driving awareness by motorists by participating in a demonstration of unlawful cycling behavior, e.g. ignoring red lights, 'corking' intersections, hogging all available lanes, etc.
In an A&S thread on this same topic, someone made the incisive observation that, paraphrasing, what CM participants think about CM doesn't really matter because ultimately it is their actions which will count to the non-cycling target audience. Intentions are invisible; motorists will remember only being unduly delayed by an intentionally disruptive 2-wheeled mob disregarding traffic laws and/or common sense & courtesy. I believe pushback is coming. I hope too many people aren't surprised when it arrives. |
Originally Posted by ferd_miller
(Post 7174205)
You can't induce more lawful driving awareness by motorists by participating in a demonstration of unlawful cycling behavior
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CM..a bunch of misguided turds giving cyclists everywhere more to worry about while riding..
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Originally Posted by cg1985
(Post 7152435)
I somewhat like the idea of holding up regular traffic. "cycloning" and "corking" and "Die-ins" For safety purposes it is almost necessary when dealing with large amounts of people. The message can have mixed interpretations, though for me, it's a demonstration of awareness to cyclists, and also by stopping traffic, you are holding them up, perhaps a show that we don't need to get everywhere so fast, and what slowing down can save not only cyclists, but pedestians and other motorists. It's a general lifestyle message.
However, the reality is that many people, particularly the critics who have long reaches in media outlets, will show that blocking traffic is a nusance, and they are causing people to be late, and disrupting city functions, and emergency vehicles. They will give it a negative spin, and because of the few cyclists who acted up in protest to citations or so on, that amplifies the negative feelings around the rides. It is my opinion that CM is using bad tactics and strategy to try and prove a point that doesn't need to be proven. Cyclists would gain a lot more respect if every urban cyclist would simply behave rationally, predictably, and courteously to those they share the roadways with. If you're trying to raise awareness toward urban cycling and cycle-commuting, it seems to me that a much more effective, pleasant, and politically savvy (because it is, after all, a political message you're trying to get across) would be to ride safely, obey traffic laws, and be friendly to motorists and pedestrians. Maybe hand out some bike maps of the city and literature for the local cyclists associations. The old saying "You catch more flies with honey" isn't just BS. People are much more likely to react in a positive manner and take up the mantle of your cause if they have reason to believe that it is a good one, and that those that support it are genuinely good people. |
Originally Posted by novacommuter
(Post 7175926)
This is the exact brand of self-important ******baggery that gives cyclists everywhere a bad name. If you can't share the road legally and with courtesy, stay the hell off the roads. There are plenty of us out there who ride predictably, obey traffic laws, and treat cagers with the exact common courtesy that we would like extended to us. It doesn't matter one whit what your opinion is about how other people live their lives. It is their right to live their lives how they see fit as long as it is within legal boundaries. Your lifestyle differs from just about everyone else's on the planet. What do you think about groups who send the message that they don't agree with people who live a *****exual lifestyle, and do so by harassing and generally making life harder on those who do?
The reason they give it a negative spin is because you have given them an opportunity to do so by behaving like petulant children, breaking the law, and broadcasting to everyone within reach that you're nothing more than self-important asshats. It is my opinion that CM is using bad tactics and strategy to try and prove a point that doesn't need to be proven. Cyclists would gain a lot more respect if every urban cyclist would simply behave rationally, predictably, and courteously to those they share the roadways with. If you're trying to raise awareness toward urban cycling and cycle-commuting, it seems to me that a much more effective, pleasant, and politically savvy (because it is, after all, a political message you're trying to get across) would be to ride safely, obey traffic laws, and be friendly to motorists and pedestrians. Maybe hand out some bike maps of the city and literature for the local cyclists associations. The old saying "You catch more flies with honey" isn't just BS. People are much more likely to react in a positive manner and take up the mantle of your cause if they have reason to believe that it is a good one, and that those that support it are genuinely good people. I am of the opinion CM has a cumulatively negative effect on people's views of cyclists. What's this "You're" this and "you're that." I don't ride with CM, and I don't necessarily believe that corking is a good idea, I was simply stating my own thoughts on society and so On. Everyone has opinions. Stop putting words into my mouth you preachy son of a *****. Did you even read the rest of my post? |
Every day my mass gets on the leather and into the traffic, it's critical.
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I used to ride to work every day. Now I think I'll drive one day a month so I can run over critical mass-holes.
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I find it silly how ten minutes of bike traffic a month can get some so upset. Yet, there are so few complaints when thousands of cars with one occupant block traffic for so much longer every day.
Stuff like this belongs in the 50's forums. |
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan
(Post 7174417)
Remember Rosa Parks?.... It wasn't quick and it wasn't easy but it proves that civil disobedience can make a difference.
Cyclists already have all the rights of use on the road that motor vehicles do - and many financial advantages, even (e.g. no recurring fees or taxes on bikes, no registration requirements, etc). So the law per se doesn't appear to be the enemy in this scenario. As for whatever stakes cyclists risk, we do so pretty much voluntarily whereas Rosa Parks et al. had no choice over their skin color. |
Originally Posted by capejohn
(Post 7176941)
I find it silly how ten minutes of bike traffic a month can get some so upset. Yet, there are so few complaints when thousands of cars with one occupant block traffic for so much longer every day.
Stuff like this belongs in the 50's forums. Fifties forum? What's age got to do with this thread. *******s are *******s, regardless of age. Any time you infringe on another's rights, you are wrong. I bet you vote for Teddy too! :p |
Hey, um, not to ad hom inappropriately, but Alpha52 has been kind enough to label his/her posts as "libertarian," thus allowing those of us who are interested in the real world to understand that he/she isn't. I, for one, appreciate the heads up.
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CM is a domestic terrorist organization. They meet all the criteria, but since the government is sympathetic to their cause, they refuse to label them as such.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABP...2008078613.jpg |
Originally Posted by Photosmith
(Post 7184512)
CM is a domestic terrorist organization. They meet all the criteria, but since the government is sympathetic to their cause, they refuse to label them as such.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABP...2008078613.jpg |
Originally Posted by Alpha52
(Post 7182412)
I bet you vote for Teddy too! :p Of course I vote for Teddy. What a silly comment. |
to get anything positive done for biking safety and more bike facilities we need the general public behind us(voters) The problem with critical mass is that they claim to want to raise public awwareness. But unless you live in a larger city the only thing the public sees is a bunch of trouble makers keeping working people from getting stuff done,or hooligans vandalizing cars as they ride by. the news will show that. but will not show 2 or 3 of the riders stopping to change a tire for a little old lady.so the public awwareness critical mass brings is negative videos on youtube of the c.m. group chanting f___you don't do us any good either . If you really want to raise cycling awareness with group rides organise ride that are orderly follow the traffic laws with teams to stop and help people weather it be changing a tire or giving kids lolipops get the right permits hand out gatoraid to the police officers stop and buy dinner. So that they local people are left with the image of who most of us really are. Upstanding citizens who like to ride a bicycle
Roy |
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