tjwarren

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the OP has a problem with the bikes or components being produced/assembled/whatever in Asia. The problem is that the brand name *used* to stand for something, and now it clearly does not.

It's as if a stellar company SuperDuperBikes was in production for years, then sold their name to CrappyDumpyBikes. Suddenly, people who are expecting a SuperDuperBike (because that's the name on it!) are getting a CrappyDumpyBike.

Is it just the way the market works? Yes. But that doesn't make it less deceptive.


I appreciate prathman's point, though -- there's certainly nothing saying that the current management/engineers/assemblers at SuperDuperBikes would still be making a super duper bike.

Still, for the name TO mean something (which these companies clearly want), you would think that the name SHOULD mean something.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go do something else on my rebranded computer, typing with my rebranded keyboard, with my rebranded mouse. . .

Coop500

I may get off topic with this post.

I am NOT racist, but I do get discouraged so many products are made over seas. I also realize that in today's economy, that's just the way the world works.

I needed a new motorcycle helmet and tried to find one not made in Taiwan or China, just because I wanted to try and find one. AFX for example is an American company, headquarters based in Ca. But when I asked the company rep, I was told all helmets were manufactured in either of the two previously mentioned countries. In the end I still ordered one because I liked their product and they have good customer service, but I made an educated purchase and know what I am getting. Most of us don't have expendable incomes and need products we can afford. In turn, companies were forced to find cheaper solutions for manufacturing (China, Taiwan, etc).

Same with bicycles. We all can't afford $5000 (just an example) bikes, so to get cheaper bikes something has to be sacrificed and most often it's the country they are manufactured in. It's the buyers responsibility to make an educated purchase and if you buy solely on a name you used to recognize, well then shame on you. I would love to buy a new American bike for $700 like the "old" days, but it's just not going to happen. And as much I wish companies didn't brand bikes with names we all recognize but are really made in Asia, it's the nature of the beast these days. However that doesn't mean you still aren't getting a good product. Confused yet?

guadzilla

1/ Get your terminologies straight. Shell companies using branding would be if the Taiwanese companies owned the brand, and then sold the products under those names. That is different from what is happening - viz, companies are outsourcing *manufacturing* to factories in Asia, but presumably retaining design control.

2/ The days of "country of manufacture = quality" are long gone. Especially over relatively low-tech stuff like bicycles. The QC requirements of the company sourcing the manufacturing will drive quality. So thinking that country of manufacture somehow indicates the quality of what you are buying is pointless.

3/ If you think that the brand name *standing* for something is the same thing as the product being made in your home country, then more power to you.

V.

Cone Wrench

I fail to see where there is any "shell game" going on. A manufacturing facility is not a bicycle company. Most of Trek's frames and components are manufactured offshore, but the design specs come from Trek. The geographical location of manufacture would seem to be irrelevant. My understanding is that the carbon fibre frame making facilities in Taiwan are some of the best in the world. Why not use them? And there is no mistaking a Trek-designed frames (at least, the Madones) for for any other.
But, there is something to be said for the warm, fuzzy feeling I get for my Trek frame which was manufacutred in North America.

On a more wintery note, I was dissapointed to find that my new Tubbs snowshoes were not made by elves in Stowe village, Vermont, like they used to be. They were made in China. However, they are still a unique design and of the highest quality. No warm, fuzzy feeling, though.

Little Darwin

Even before the names were sold and the companies that we relied on controlled them, the manufacturing was not necessarily done by them, and was sometimes shoddy.

I forget if it was Peugeot or Motobecane that had some bikes made in Canada. If you work on Vintage bikes, who wants a French bike anyway since you have to try to figure out the threading... Is the bottom bracket French? Swiss? English? How about the headset?

If Motobecane still existed today would they be following a standard, or would they have invented another one? The Motobecane today does follow the standard component sizes... Would it be the case if the original team had passed the torch within the same company?

I have a Motobecane that was built in France... and I am afraid of the bottom bracket ever going bad, as I will have to deal with trying to figure out what standards they followed when they built it...

I also ride a Schwinn that was built in Japan... While Schwinn still existed as a company in Chicago, and not just a name owned by another company.

I ride a Giant, built by a company that built (and builds) bikes for many other companies as well.

It is a different world every time we turn around, and we need to get used to it.

BTW - I am in the over 50 age group too... and I would love to have some things the way they used to be, but I also understand that we tend to idealize our memories.

clancy98

i dont think its a shell game as much as not wanting to start a new company from scratch every time they change vendors. Its not like they are marketing them as American Trek Bicycles. Things change, and American labor is disproportionately expensive.

Machka 

Just keep in mind that one person's home is another person's overseas ... and that we are not all Americans here on this forum.

hairnet

lol My Japanese Yamaha is actually Taiwanese

JJPistols

quit being a brandwhoore and then it doesn't matter at all

stapfam

It does not matter what factory- or country- a bike is made in. Providing it meets the design and quality that the "Manufacturer" wants it to have.

So you have a design of frame that you want to make- but cost of manufacturing it yourself would price the bike out of the market. You can cut quality of the product or raise the price. But supposing you can keep the quality and cut the cost of manufacture by getting some one else to make it for you.

There is no choice- and providing the production quality in Taiwan or Outer Mongolia or where ever it is made- is up to your standards- there is no problem. And that has been proven over the last few years- along with their cost of manufacture.

And look at a typical bike- What is made in the Country of origin of the manufacturer? Groupset? Frame? Tyres? Wheels? Handlebars? ??? If you are lucky- the bar tape and the saddle may be but not much else.

varminter

Yup, that's the primary reason why the countriy is in the condition it is in, the majority doesn't care nor has country pride anymore.

joe_5700

Like a previous poster said, we are consumers.... Manufacturing is dying out in this country due to labor unions, the EPA, gloabal competition and other reasons. After using the cheapo pens at my work, I decided to find one that was made in the United States....it was a no go. The closest I could find was made in Japan. It was a good pen, but it is sad that you cannot find something as trivial as a pen being made in your own country.

varminter

To bad you feel that way. not being nasty nor am I British or anything, but alot of Fine British companies have gone out of business and LOTS of jobs lost because of thinking/actions like what you have displayed there.
I can name many but the latest that i know of is Webley and because of lack of consumers pride, the company has sold to and are made in turkey only existing off the history of the company and they have ruined the Webley name by producing a far lesser of a quality product at the same price. One good thing though, it created many a jobs in Turkey

tatfiend 

Do not be too sure of that. Historically the vast majority of Italian bikes have been cheap and heavy bikes for utility and commuter use. They just have never been imported here. We got the top end bikes which skews our perceptions of what an average Italian bike is.

JohnDThompson 

Indeed. If you go to Italy, you'll find Bianchis ranging from gaspipe frames with crimped dropouts to high-end aluminum and steel frames -- with the vast majority being gaspipe. Not only that, but there are several different Bianchis "Eduardo Bianchi" (the only ones marketed in North America, AFAIK), well as Roberto Bianchi, Gian Bianchi, &etc.

StephenH

Take a look at the car industry if you want to get confused. You see all these names like Lincoln, Cadillac, Buick, etc., each of which used to be some separate company. But now you have essentially the same vehicle sold as a Plymouth, as a Dodge, as a Chrysler. Then you have it assembled in one place, but the components were made all over, so you have a "domestic" car that's 60% foreign and a "foreign" car that's 60% domestic. If you stepped out of the auto world for 30 years and came back, it'd be confusing. If you're used to it all, no problem.

Names DO mean something now- only it's different names, not the names from 40 years ago.

By the way, you can get American-made bicycles for less than $500- look at the industrial market. Specifically, I think Worksman, Emory, and Mohawk all make frames for industrial bikes here in the US. Of course, a lot of the components on them will be off-the-shelf items, which are generally going to be foreign.

Trakhak

If you want a "French" "Motobecane," they're now called cycles MBK.

https://www.mbk-cycles.com/

Probably made in China, though.

stapfam

The reason I think like this is that there are no "Home-Made" products any longer. Well there are- but I cannot afford to buy them. They are more expensive and "Are they Made in England"? But I do have a quality that I want so in the case of Webley-which used to make a great product- I would no longer buy the product if it became more expensive and the quality went down in comparison to the competitors. I would go for the Manufacturer that gives me the product I want at a price that is competitive.

And look around the US. Car manufacturers are going through a rough time-Why? Because the Americans are buying NON- American cars in preference. Can't really blame them as the perception is that you get a better car- cheaper by buying a Toyota- or a Nissan- or a Kia. Just a pity that it is no longer a Jaguar- A Rover or a Lotus.

Kimmitt 

Taiwan is really different from China, too -- Taiwan has far better worker protections and overall standard of living. I'd be much more comfortable buying from Taiwan than China.

willhub

I'm sure CAAD9's from Cannondale are still made in the USA, I know my silver CAAD9 says Handmade in USA on the back.

Yan 

CAAD9's will no longer be made in the USA starting this year (or possibly next year).

willhub

Does that mean current ones like mine will actually go up in value?

varminter

Yes, it is a pity that the majority have evolved into a throw away society.
I just KNEW cars were going to be brought up. Yes,"better" is a perception and nothing more .
Cheaper? Although maybe not as efficient, My 40 year old American car is cheaper to own, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to operate and quite a bit quicker than 99.9 perent of the Toyota's, Nissan's etc and that is not a perception, but facts.

varminter

Yes, it is a pity the majority have evolved into a throw away society.
I just KNEW cars were going to be brought up. Yes,"better" is a perception and nothing more .
Cheaper? Although maybe not as efficient, My 40 year old American car is cheaper to own, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to operate and quite a bit quicker than 99.9 perent of the Toyota's, Nissan's etc and that is not a perception, but facts.

zonatandem

Almost impossible to buy an American built bicycle.
Frame may be made here (Co-Motion, Serotta, Seven come to mind) but tubing can come from anywhere.
Components . . . great majority are not made in the US.
Are you sure the label saying "made in the USA" was actually made/printed in the US???
Welcome to the new world economy!