lewt539

I am looking to get a steel frame for single speed/fixed gear build, possibly into a multi-gear longer distance touring bike (if it has horizontal dropouts). Most new bikes today are TIG welded; many lugged frames costs more than their welded counter-parts. Many people go for the lugs for the looks, others say that they are built stronger, and are more easily repaired. I think lugs are nice looking, but I don't care too much about the looks though.

Can I justify myself in paying more for a lugged steel frame over a welded one? How many of you have actually gotten a frame repaired (replacing a tube or something related to repairing a lugged frame), where it is not ideal on a TIG welded frame?

I have read that repairing a lugged steel frame is only practical on an expensive high end frame, whereas you would more than likely just replace the entire frame of a low end bike. Roughly, how much does it cost to repair a frame, and how expensive of a frame would it take for you to actually have it repaired for?

tatfiend 

Not sure about repair advantages but I much prefer the look of lugged steel frames. Enough justification for me

I already have three lugged steel frames, an old Japanese Duracycle track style frame with road geometry, a 1983 Colnago with Super Record gruppo and a 1990 Trek 950 MTB. I also just ordered a Steelwool Tweed frame. With it's vertical dropouts and eccentric bottom bracket it is a very versatile frame that can be built as a SS/FG/IGH or Derailleur setup.

alpacalypse

I don't have numbers, and I think the costs vary greatly depending on the damage and the quality of the repair.

However, the cost of repair almost always exceeds the cost of replacement. The only time repairing a lugged frame makes any sense beyond sentimental value is when the frame is one-of-a-kind; either rare or custom. Not only are rare and custom bikes extremely expensive to replace, but often they cannot be replaced at all. This is why a huge number of custom-built bikes are lugged steel; they're relatively easy for a framebuilder to customize, and they're repairable which makes them extremely long-term investments.

I love lugged steel and I'm not afraid to admit that I'll pay a little extra for the aesthetic of it in a factory bike where it makes little rational sense. However, unless you're investing a lot of money into a custom job, repairing a lugged steel frame will never put you ahead financially.

Wordbiker

Your perspective is from a collector's POV.

One other situation that makes sense is when a rider is on a long tour. There are many more people available that can weld or braze a steel frame than repair an aluminum, titanium or carbon frame while on the road. In those situations, getting back on the road is priceless.

Nightshade

The reason Lugged is so much better than tig welding is......strength. It's kinda like you wearing
a brace on a strained knee....extra strength.

"The end of the tubes are inserted into the lugs and are then brazed together with a silver or brass filler metal. The lug greatly increases the strength of the joint by distributing the molten filler metal over a larger surface area via capillary action."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugged_...e_construction

tatfiend 

That repair can depend on where you are in the world. In many areas a welder will have no experience working with more exotic steels such as thin wall chrome moly, 531 or even more exotic items such as Reynolds 753. They can be ruined by poor welding or brazing.

One supposed advantage of Tubus racks is their chrome moly steel construction allowing repair if damaged on tour but I have noted a report of additional damage being caused by attempted repair in rural Africa by a local welder.

illwafer

weird thread.

tig welds are generally on aluminum frames.

i also like lugged bikes as well, and fortunately they are cheap and abundant. you can get an ace lugged frame for around $100.

if you wanna get crazy, you get your cheap, lugged steel frame and you bring it to a frame builder. he can tweak it however you want. let's say it costs you $200 (high). then you paint it for $200 (high). you got yourself a custom frame and fork for $500.

pwdeegan

i've got tig welds on my steel frame. it rides just like my lugged steel frame, for all intents and purposes. it might be one-billionth easier to clean than a lugged frame, owing to the nice round beads of the welds, but they're both strong enough for all conventional uses. ultimately, if you're spending time doting over your welds or lugs, then you're probably missing the point of riding the bicycle.

mlts22 

I say go for the lugged steel, mainly because the cost difference over the bike's lifetime isn't that much, plus from what I read, you likely will get more enjoyment from a lugged frame that looks better to you than the other one.

Components come and go (for the most part), but frames last a long time.

Wordbiker

The odds are still better you'll find someone familiar with steel fabrication and repair than aluminum, carbon or titanium. Tubus also makes stainless steel and titanium racks. Next time I'm in rural Africa...I'll switch to cromoly.

bbattle

I had a downtube replaced on my '87 Fuso for $200.

Buy what you want. Today's TIG welded steel frames are quite strong and there are many nice ones out there. A lot of nice lugged ones, too. Since you don't care much about the looks, get a TIG welded frame, build it up, and go ride.

Personally, I'd get a frame for SS/FG and another one for touring.

mlts22 

Here is what I missed: Is the original poster wanting a SS/FG ride, or a touring bike?

One bike for both uses isn't going to be good. I second what bbattle states -- have one frame for SS/FG use, and another frame that is made for touring. This way, you can use the right dropouts. A SS/FG is better off with horizontal dropouts, while a standard touring frame needs vertical dropouts, assuming a derailleur system (as opposed to an internal hub like a Rohloff.)

For the OP: What do you plan on using more... SS/FG or touring as a purpose? Do you plan to do long trips, or around the city with your fixie? The thing you do more often, is where I'd sink the money, although for long distance touring, choice of metal may mean an easier ability to find repairs while on the road.

martianone

Check out sannercycles.com; a boutique maker of lugged frames- nice work for a reasonable price.

Longfemur

If you don't care about the looks, then don't bother. It won't be worth paying more for it. I prefer lugs, but I don't think they are necessarily stronger, and the repairable idea is misleading. The cost for most people would be prohibitive anyway, unless the original is a very high value hand-made frame. For touring, it wouldn't matter anyway. Repairability in that case is emergency repair -- ie. crude welding. In that scenario, it's steel that matters, not the joining method.

People these days don't realize that lugs are only of interest if the frame is a high-quality one. Most cheap lugged frames have nothing special about them, not even looks.

lewt539

For now, I want a SS/FG to ride around the city, and to commute to and from school. I do want to get into touring, but probably not any time soon and not that often. I guess having 2 bikes is more practical, I was mainly thinking of this because of the Surly Cross Check which comes in horizontal dropouts, and the idea of buying a good used road frame with horizontal dropouts which would make for a good conversion, and if it has good components, use it as a touring bike.

Why are vertical dropouts better for derailleur system? I tried to do a mini-search, but did not find much information.

MKahrl

The modern slant parallelagram rear derailleur using index shifting and a floating upper jockey pulley wants the gear cluster to be in a very precise location in relation to the derailleur in order to shift properly. With a horizontal dropout you can get the wheel too far forward or too far back from the derailleur making for less than perfect shifting.

It's also easier to remove and install the rear wheel with vertical dropouts.

Pat

Well, how often have you ever had a frame damaged that you would worry about the cost of a possible repair? I had a frame fatique fail once and one fail because of a catastrophic impact. The first would have been repairable but given that it was fatigue why do it? So in years of riding and tens of thousands of miles, I have never had a situation that called for repairing a frame.

Of course, your usage may be quite different.

But if you like lugged steel frames, get one. I mean bicycling is relatively cheap compared to some other hobbies that one can think of.

Bob Ross

Eye of the beholder, my friend! I've got a cheap lugged steel frame -- a 1985 Bridgestone that sold for maybe $300 as a fully built up bike when it was new -- and there is something just plain sexy about the look of those subtle lugged joints. Not drop dead sexy like a Llewelyn or a Columbine, but special enough. I don't kid myself that those lugs make one iota of difference in performance or feel, and I'd be crazy to think that repairing that frame (should it ever get damaged) is an economic viability. I just like how it looks.

I also think that 90% of the TIG welds I've seen are absolutely hideous. So it's all about personal taste/aesthetics.

If you like the way lugs look, spend the extra money & buy a lugged frame.

noglider 

Building bike frames with lugs is a dying craft. That's why new lugged frames cost more.

Mass produced aluminum frames are suitable for the masses of people buying bicycles (and that's not an insult), so steel frames of any type of construction are becoming rare, but lugged frames are rarer than welded frames.

I agree you may be better off with two bikes. A SS/FG bike is a bit more pleasant to play around with if it has rear-facing dropouts, and you can't have those on a derailleur bike.