What kind of urban bike should I get?
 

Hi. I've been mulling over the purchase of an urban (ie. hybrid) bike on the second hand market for a few weeks now. I'm turning to experts now (aka bike enthusiasts) to help me give me some guidance - info. The bike should be light, because I have to haul it up the stairs at the end of a trip when I am most tired. But it should be comfortable going over rough bumpy city streets and not real expensive (ie. over $500). It's mostly for riding in the city, to work or along bike paths (sometimes up steep streets). But on the occasion, I may want to use it for touring in the country areas (ie. longer distance riding). I can only get one bike, so is there a bike that has all these capabilities? I can't try them out, so any info would be appreciated. Here are some models that seem like good possibilities:

- GIANT Cypress DX: (it has front shocks but is a bit too heavy though)
- GIANT Cypress DX or Trek 7000 WDS for women: (these models look identical and are very similar. But they don't have front fork shocks. I know this will impact the comfort, but does it have a significant impact on the weight? What about the lack of a top bar, does that significantly reduce the weight as well?)
- GIANT Farrago DS (aluminum frame): This has both front and rear shocks so it should be super comfortable, but it might be even heavier than the DX model because of the rear spring)
- GIANT Cypress EX: This is supposed to have a lighter frame I think, than the DX. Except it appears to be more of a "cruiser" style, due to some sort of unusual 7-speed gearing system. Does this mean it does climb hills very easily, with only 7 speeds?
- SCHWINN Circuit XT: I like this for its lightness and good quality parts. But its built more like a racer with mountain bike handlebars. So without the upturned handlebars, thin tires and the lack of suspension, its probably not going to be comfortable riding in the city. Also, it's an 18" frame, but it seems too small for me (maybe its the way it was adjusted, i dont know).

I am 5'6. What size frame should I look for?

Anything else I should be looking out for that might be more suited to my needs and budget, than the bikes mentioned?

Giant Transend fits all your criteria, even brand new, and is better than the bikes you listed, again by your criteria.

Best thing to do is go to a bunch of shops and test ride as many bikes as suit you.

Did you know you posted this same thread 3 times?

How do you know any of those bikes are available second hand?

Consider a folding bike like downtube.com or Dahon. If you want "cheap" try craigslist, or the trash, and repair and replace until you have a bike you like. See if there are courses on bike maintenance given near you.

Ummm... because I checked?

Thanks, but I'm not looking for a trash bike, nor a folding bike (and I already know how to maintain my bike). I gave a few examples of bikes that resemble what I'm looking for. If there are any opinions on the models I did mention, that would be helpful. I know where to find the bike, so that's not what I was asking about. I'm looking for general information on what to get or look for, with respect to my stated needs (light but with suspension for comfortable urban riding). The GIANT Trans Send suggested is an excellent one (thanks), except for the fact that new bikes are out of my budget, and it does not appear available at any local GIANT dealers (I'm in canada, may be why). I'm still in the dark on the questions I raised:

Q. I am 5'6. What size frame should I look for?

Q. It's mostly for riding in the city, to work or along bike paths (sometimes up steep streets). But on the occasion, I may want to use it for touring in the country areas (ie. longer distance riding). I can only get one bike, so is there a bike that has all these capabilities?

Q. they don't have front fork shocks. I know this will impact the comfort, but does it have a significant impact on the weight? What about the lack of a top bar, does that significantly reduce the weight as well?

Q. Does this mean it (Cypress EX) does not climb hills very easily, with only 7 speeds?

BTW, I can not test ride bikes. My local shops won't let me take their new bikes outside, and dirty them up. They get nervous when I just take them off the rack by myself (fear of scratching them). The best I can do is just look at them real hard. And besides, as mentioned I have no plans of buying one new from a store, so it wouldn't be ethical to waste their time.

For a hybrid and your height - probably a 17.5" frame. But find out for sure by mounting the bike and finding where you are then. Some people have long legs. Some shorter.

I tried doing research on bike height, but found it very confusing. I saw a video online that said if the top tube of a hybrid is the traditional 2-3 inches above your inseam, that's only good for riding off trail. 'Course it didn't say what it should be. Nor what to do if the model is a ladies bike with no top tube! It seems the length of the top tube is perhaps just as or more important than the height, but no clear indications of how to fit that to your body.

You should take off and nuke the bikes from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Seriously, the purpose of the first bike is to let you figure out what you like and don't like about bikes. Buy a decent one that fills your basic needs, then ride it for six months and ruminate. At the end of six months, you'll be happy.

Most people get really really excited about small changes in geometry that only affect some people. You have no idea which of these variations is a big deal for you, so buy something decent and ride it.

1. I'm just under 6 ft, use the Giant L frame (20 inch). So maybe for you M (18 inc). 2 inch inseam rule seems about right.

2. One bike is enough. Get the thinner tires 700 (not 26) - the 700 are still thick enough to make a smooth ride; front suspension not needed as reduces agility, adds, weight, and makes you pedal with more labor. The seat should have some spring in it for your purposes

Say, Captain Crockett, ya think maybe you should stop overloading on so much sugar fizz? You seem to have sprung a sprocket or two.

Thanks, that's great advice. Let's ignore all the specifics I wrote about what my needs and size is, and just randomly buy one bike after another, without any idea whatsoever if it may be suitable, at 6 month intervals, until I am either bankrupt, or have enough to open my own bike shop. Brilliant! I'm sure I'll really be "happy" following your screwy advice! Good lord. For your sake, I hope you -are- on something, and you didn't come up with that sober. I am 45, btw. What in the blue blazes makes you think I'm buying my "first bike"? I probably bought my "first bike" before you were even a gleam in your father's eye.

Uhhh... your screen name is "The Cappucino Kid". Maybe if it were something indicative of your age like "Professional Starbucks Recycler" or "Halfway to 90" we'd have a better idea.

Anyway, "Kid"... any of those bikes are good choices. It's probably better that you find a bike shop that's willing to work with you and fit you to your chosen bike. A "good" bike is like a "good" suit- no matter how expensive the materials, if it don't fit right, it ain't right.

BTW: I've got a year on you- I'm 46. I spent 12 years in the bicycle business up until the time I got a real job. I still have a bunch of bikes (see the link in my sig), and I still haven't figured out what's "right".

Of course, you could get one of these: http://www.schwinnbike.com/isl/eng/P...F1-Coffee-1spd

Bialy, I thank you for offering some relevant, useful advice. Even if it was just to introduce me to the Trans Send model, from Giant (which despite days of research on Giant bikes, I had not heard of before you mentioned it). As a result, I am happy to say I just bought a Giant Trans Send today (M). The LBS let me and my GF each ride a different size of Giant Trans Send models (with only a drivers license as security). (One of them was the personal bike of the sales staff, and had a Brooks leather saddle, along with a squeaky toy on the handlebar for a bell). We were both amazed at how well they rode and how much we liked them. I was most surprised by how much this bike was better than my 2007 Cypress DX, which I presumed before then would be very close. Shifting on the Trans Send was faultless, crisp and precise, despite having the same Alivio derailleur as on my Cypress DX. Weird that they seemed to take a second or two to go into the new gear, but did so with authority. The TS also had better brakes which were thrilling to use: even better than stopping on a dime. They felt precise and required little effort and brought the bike to a slow, graceful but powerful stop. It occurred to me this is preferable to stopping on a dime, because I felt with these brakes, I will be less likely to leap over the handlebars if I did have to stop on a dime. The small size Trans Send was -extremely- agile. Far more so than my 19' Cypress or even the M' Trans Send. Reminded me of a grown up's BMX. I was zipping around people and other obstacles on the sidewalk at high speeds, with no problem. I was going faster than the traffic on the road, and then found out the chain wasn't even on the largest sprocket in the front! Which meant I could have gone even faster if I wanted to. Overall, the Trans Send in either size, was just a dream to ride.

Finally, I could pick the bike up with one hand, so even with luggage rack and fenders, it was lighter than my Cypress DX, my hybrid cromo Bianchi, etc. My biggest concern was lack of suspension; none at the front, nor under the seat (seatpost). The dealer made a good point by saying the Trans Send has a light seatpost, and that a suspension seatpost and forks would add significantly to the overall weight. So I compromised on that front. (Might switch out to a suspended seatpost anyway, if I could find one about as light as the stock post). Nevertheless, I tried going over the rougher parts of the road, and though the ride wasn't as smooth as my suspension fork Cypress, and I had to lift myself off the seat a bit sometimes over rough surfaces, it really wasn't so bad after all. Tolerable, and the sweet ride makes you kind of forget it might not be your first choice for a curb jumper. The fact that the store had a sale at $450, down from $600, clinched the deal. The store even offers 1 year free tuneups. Plus we got it in a beautiful med. olive color (with a deck of matching dark wood), which for some reason, is not even shown at all on the Giant site (all I see there is an ugly grey color). In its olive and brown wood incarnation, this is literally the nicest looking bike of its kind, that I have yet seen.

Since I wasn't planning to buy new or spend $500 on an extra bike for my GF, you can bet this had to be one damn good bike for me to buy it! It is. For urban riding, you can get lighter... but you can't get better. The only bad thing I can say about it, is the one we got didn't come with a little bell compass thingy on the handlebar. After buying it tonight, I started looking at the reviews for it, to see what others thought. One site had nothing but 5 stars out of 5 on the reviews. That would be my rating too, for the Trans Send DX.

Realizing this sweet looking ride will be like heroin for the bike thieving addict, the challenge now will be to find a lock that is tough enough to withstand the thieves, but not so heavy that it turns a Trans Send DX into a 50's beach cruiser. Maybe the small OnGuard chain lock....

I see. So no matter that I don't write like a child in my first post, people just assume I'm a "kid" because they go by the screen names, and take them literally. Just like they assumed "Billy the Kid" was maybe a 7 year old gunfighter. Or that someone looking for a bike for work or touring the country and seems to already have some knowledge of the bikes on the market and who's screen name suggests they drink cappucino, must be young kid who never owned a bike before. Because of the word "kid" in the name. Well believe it or not, I'm neither a kid, nor have I ever been a coffee drinker. (It's an homage to the guy who wrote the liner notes for The Style Council). I suppose if people here go by your screen name, then we must assume "geo8rge" is 8 years old, "Panthers007" is, well, a panther, and "Kimmitt" is probably a relative of Kermit. (The Frog). Got it! ;) I'll have to change my name to "Cranky45".

My father was a tailor, so I really don't agree that finding a bike your size requires a "good bike shop" or is anything like fitting a suit. With bikes, you just have about 3 sizes you can fit to. Small, Med. and Large. And that's if the dealer has them in stock, or the bike co. makes the model you want in the size you need. All you need to know is which frame size in general suits your body. I know I'm a M. (about 17, 18"). You don't need a tailor either, to see how close the top tube is to your inseam, or how your arms are positioned on the handlebar, and the resulting posture. Anyone can get on a bike and know that. The thing that annoys me about bike sales staff is I usually know more than they do, or can find out quicker. So usually, all they are good for is wasting my time. That's exactly what occurred today, where the young bike shop dude was making what was supposed to be a brief look-see there into a slow-grind odyssey. Where I had to humour him and pretend I really needed him in my hair, while my ice cream was melting in the car outside, and I was at increased risk of getting a parking ticket because of him. (The other dealers I spoke to there were helpful, though).

Cool Schwinn cruiser, by the way.

YooHoo!! Never mind the caffeinated-rubes in the Peanut Gallery. Okay - for size check out a 17 - 18 inch bike. See if that fits. You might have long, or short, legs for your torso. This is biology. Whoopdi-Doo. Now you have an idea of what variety of cycle you believe is right for your location. There is, indeed, some truth that this bike may turn out to be an initial test. Take that as a real possible - so you don't over-pay for something you might not want in a while. Truth.

I, however, knew I wanted a fast hybrid machine. I also knew my proclivities for customizing any bike that gets into my area. So I bought something with a frame that was suitable for full-scale customizing. So, if you are like me, you may have a good idea of where you're going right off the bat(s). But do think about this. If you have any doubt whatsoever - take well into consideration that this bicycle is a temporary. So don't give your life-savings. If you KNOW what your are planning - bombs away! I hope you have deep pockets.

My original suggestion stands though. You say Giant more times than the kid with the magic-beans. Try them all! Any bike-shop worth talking to will let you ride as many bikes as you want. As long as you don't wreck 'em. Do give Trek more than a precursory glance. They are very good machines. Look at the FX-series.

Oh - I'd cross the Schwinn off the list. Schwinn now manufactures junk. Aside from Paramounts. But that's debatable.



<EDIT> If you want info on how to customize/upgrade a hybrid - pm me>

Measure your inseam. My main steed is an 18" bike and I'm 5'8.5" with a 31" inseam (I think it was 31")

Either go hybrid or road bike. I love my hybrid but she's a heavy beast and kind of a pain to cycle up the many hills in this town, you may find a hybrid too clunky and want to go light and easy to carry up stairs etc: road bike.

Do you plan on using panniers on your bike?

Wow, TCK, congrats on your excellent purchase - you made (part of) my day.

Just beware of the poster "masiman" here as he loves to take mean-spirited shots (including at me, despite my informative questions to the forum community and valued advice).

Tank yew berry mutch! Although I wouldn't call it a "cruiser"- this is a Cruiser:
http://www.schwinnbike.com/usa/eng/P...c-Seven-Deluxe
The phat tires and the swept-back handlebars are what separate "Cruisers" from, ummm... other bikes.

I'd call the Coffee a "town bike"- good for short jaunts to the market or coffee shop. It's very basic, albeit efficient, transportation. It doesn't require putting on the Lycra road warrior stuff to ride- usually it's blue jeans and tennis shoes. I built my own version: http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/letour/index.htm

I disagree with your assertion that bikes only come in Small, Medium, and Large. Just like a tailor hemming a pant leg or taking in a sleeve to make a suit fit right, a bike can have different saddle positions (fore-aft to accomodate leg proportions), different handlebar stem lengths (to accomodate different torso lengths), and different saddles (different fits for different butts). Good fit can change a bike that's barely tolerable to one that's all-day comfortable. A good bike shop will help you figure this out- I have a feeling that you haven't found a good bike shop yet.

Ok, thanks, but I can handle masiman, or anyone that wants to take shots at me. Water off a duck's back, AFAIC. And yeah, I think you are a valued member of this community. I was doing a google search on bikes today, and some thread from 2008 on this forum was one of the most relevant, useful hits for me.... so a very interesting read, and I noticed your name and contributions to that thread were really good.

I was teasing my GF today, by showing her what we could have bought for 5 bills on Kijiji (second hand). ie. "Oh look, there's a Devinci Amsterdam, there's a Specialized Crossroads, there's a Rocky Mountain hybrid....". She wasn't interested at all, and I agreed that nothing else was really any more enticing. Maybe one of them might have carbon in the fork or something, but the test trial at the LBS spoke louder than specs. Every bike has its own feel it seems, which I'm basing largely on the frame geometry and construction, and it'd be a crapshoot to think you could duplicate the feel of the Trans Send with a completely different bike. Let alone better it (assuming you like the way it rides). So she had no regrets and for once, neither did I. It's nice occasionally to buy something that you know within 20 seconds you're going to be happy with it, and have no regrets whatsoever later! (The only thing is, I went back to the dealer today because the bike was missing the little bell. They installed a black OEM one for me, but it obviously wasnt the Trans Send bell, 'cos it didn't have the compass. So I felt kinda "cheated" a bit, and went back again, asking if I could have the original bell, saying I might need it some time. They said it wouldnt matter, as the compass doesn't work; it always points to North. But I was ready to ignore that and still wanted, so they installed it. And yup, they and the reports on the net were right: the compass doesn't work!).

BTW, I'm curious about something, and was wondering if someone could elaborate on this: when I first (and later) tested the Trans Send, I noticed that going quickly on the harder gears, I was really not out of breath. Whereas I would have expected to be more so on one of my other hybrids, such as the Cypress DX. I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining this effect. As it may be the lightest bike I've ridden, I thought it might have something to do with that, or to do with the mysteries (to me) of gearing; ie. the specific gearing used on this bike, and the effect all of it has on the lungs.

Umm, hmmmm... bike testing is pretty tough to break down into objective cause-and-effect "chunks". Even the bike magazines (especially the bike magazines) don't do a good job at objective testing.

I have to ask a couple questions about your comparison:
Were the bikes set up the same? Same size, seat/handlebar adjustment, saddle position?
Did they use the same tires? Were the tires inflated to the same pressure?
Did you test them under identical conditions? Roads? Weather? Time of day?

I once talked to a professional bike fitter- he ran an experiment with a couple friends. He set up a couple bikes- one with premium components, but the fit adjustments were all wrong. The other had middle of the road components and weighed 5 pounds more than the first, but the fit was right. When his friends compared the bikes, they rode faster and farther on the cheaper bike. That's how important bike fit is, and probably the difference in the bikes you rode.

Anyone who reads Bicycling Magazine - and believes their testing - is objective. So objective, in fact, that they can't even see the river of money flowing into their wallets for 5-star type rating. That rag used to be a respectable magazine years back. Now it read like Richie-Rich's Toy Catalog.

It's not even fit for lining a birdcage with.

A true urban bike's biggest danger is being stolen. I'm a big fan of rigid mountain bikes with street tires. They're cheap on craiglist, strong & easy to keep running. Found a nice Bridgestone MB6 for $30.00. New tires & a general lube & tighten was all it needed. Had the ugly-ass early 90s purple & white surf punk paint scheme as well as mucho chips and scrapes. Rode like a dream. The frame was a little small for me, otherwise I would have kept it.

Buying used means keeping an open mind. Accept the fact you will never find the perfect bike at the best price.

I think mon compass works. I'll pay attention next time. I wouldn't have a cow over the whole bell thang - <=10 bucks to get another. Enjoy riding.

It is true that the great fear is getting it stolen so you can never really relax and lock it up when you're on the road and go.

Like I said, the Trans Send in olive with dark wood rack is the nicest looking bike I've seen. Which probably means thieves will be killing themselves to steal it. We talked about that, and the solution was to get a second bike, a beater bike to ride to work, and leave it out all day (although they encourage employees to bike to work, hypocritically, they won't allow theirs employees to bring bikes in the building "for security reasons"). This way at least the spanking new Trans Send with its snazzy "aluminum frame" decals will only be used for errands and occasional transportation around town. This still means it could sometimes be locked up for a few hours, in a large city downtown. I spent two days thinking of and researching a "lock strategy" for these occasions (that didn't use locks so heavy, it would turn the Trans Send into a Huffy). Which settled on this: the OnGuard Brute Mini, used Sheldon Brown style on the rear wheel only.

For the front tire, it will be an OnGuard cable locked by the Mini, plus a small and very light aluminum dollar-store u-lock for the front wheel, as an additional deterrent. (Flimsy yes, but it has an unusual key slot that can't be picked by a Bic pen, and would probably be hard to pick any other way). Plus pipe clamps around the QR levers, to deter the ill-equipped casual thief. Plus another cheap dollar store cable lock, to deter the casual thief from making off with the saddle (they can still get the seatpost though, if they have a screwdriver). At least the seatpost doesn't have a QR lever, but any thief with a set of allen keys can make off with it. Or the bike rack, or especially the cool bunjee cords it comes with, or a lot of the individual parts that make up the Trans Send, I imagine. (I have researched locking skewers and all that, and concluded they are not worth the exhorbitant price, as they can be easily defeated by anyone but a total crackhead).

We're crossing our fingers and hoping this strategy will be enough, 'cos carrying an extra chain lock around for the front wheel defeats the purpose of a lite bike.

This thread is just a waste of ****ing space.

You can get a perfectly good brand new commuter in the size the OP wants, with full rack and fenders that isn't a total **** bike for less than $500. You really don't have much choice with a limited budget like that.