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have you ever head a fellow cyclist, shout, wear a helmet

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have you ever head a fellow cyclist, shout, wear a helmet

Old 07-02-04, 09:27 PM
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was out riding my bike with just my Skull Cap Bandana, when I was caught in a red light, and this cyclist said, How come you can afford to buy all those expensive stuff, and not afford a helmet. I was dumbfounded, what can I say, I just told myself, I am sorry, I am stupid...... I should have know better
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Old 07-02-04, 09:49 PM
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Yup....some can take offense if they like, but I really don't see much of an excuse for not wearing a helmet. It's cheap, easy, and can save your life. I normally leave adults alone, but when I see parents with their kids and their kids are riding without helmets, I tell them to buy helmets for their kids. Sometimes, the parents get pissed (are you telling me how to raise my kids? why yes, I most certainly am), but I'll brave the steam if it means the kid gets a helmet.
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Old 07-02-04, 10:14 PM
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Why weren't you wearing a helmet... ? Left it at home?
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Old 07-03-04, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Some dude
How come you can afford to buy all those expensive stuff, and not afford a helmet.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Didn't you just recently have an accident? I thought you'd have learned from that. Tell me it was a mistake.
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Old 07-03-04, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by orguasch
was out riding my bike with just my Skull Cap Bandana, when I was caught in a red light, and this cyclist said, How come you can afford to buy all those expensive stuff, and not afford a helmet. I was dumbfounded, what can I say, I just told myself, I am sorry, I am stupid...... I should have know better
in the transactional analysis theory in psychology this is a classic Parent-Child transaction. According to this theory there are three basic parts to a persons personality- the Parent (a collection of recordings of what a person´s parents did and said when the person was small); the Adult (the data processing logical part) and the Child (an internal recording of a person´s feelings as a child). The Parent and Child are fixed during childhood and cannot be changed later. By not wearing a helmet you attracted this other cyclists Parent. The other cyclist then replayed their Parent recording and admonished you for not wearing a helmet (just as the cyclists own real parents would have).This then pushed you into the Child part of your personality where you felt sorry and stupid for not wearing a helmet just as you did when your parents told you off for being naughty when you were a kid.

Without wanting to start another helmet thread it is your decision whether you wear a helmet or not. Use your Adult and make the decision.
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Old 07-03-04, 01:46 AM
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Personally I don't have any time for self rightious pricks like that. Doctors and cops seem to be the worst offenders on a general basis(always exceptions of course) both in number of offenders and the fact that they often do their best to make sure a law is passed that forces(safety nazi's) everyone to live a certain way even when ridiculess (like chugging up hill). Hence many peoples dislike of those in otherwise very respectible occupations.

Originally Posted by orguasch
was out riding my bike with just my Skull Cap Bandana, when I was caught in a red light, and this cyclist said, How come you can afford to buy all those expensive stuff, and not afford a helmet. I was dumbfounded, what can I say, I just told myself, I am sorry, I am stupid...... I should have know better
No your not stupid, you said "hey I feel like riding without a helmet today" and accepted the slight increase in risk associated with that desision in exchange for the benifits. Its not like you were pushing the laws of physics on a casual ride if you were raceing or going for a personal best that would be a little different, but still your desision. Yelling at somone for not wearing a helmet is the same as yelling at somone in a restuarant because they ordered there eggs sunny side up(not cooked enough to kill possible salmonella) or their steak rare. Maybe they like sunny side up and don't mind the slight increase in risk.

... I normally leave adults alone, but when I see parents with their kids and their kids are riding without helmets, I tell them to buy helmets for their kids. Sometimes, the parents get pissed (are you telling me how to raise my kids? why yes, I most certainly am), but I'll brave the steam if it means the kid gets a helmet.
Would you do the same if they let there kids order undercooked eggs?
Most small kids can't ride over 10mph on the level, I can run that faster than that, should we see all the joggers out there troting along with helmets on? Oh and how about the jungle gym better slap one on there too. Maybe a few elbow and knee pads and don't forget the wrist braces and spine protectors. Better yet lets put them in a paded spherical room so there's no corners.
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Old 07-03-04, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by royalflash
in the transactional analysis theory in psychology this is a classic Parent-Child transaction. According to this theory there are three basic parts to a persons personality- the Parent (a collection of recordings of what a person´s parents did and said when the person was small); the Adult (the data processing logical part) and the Child (an internal recording of a person´s feelings as a child). The Parent and Child are fixed during childhood and cannot be changed later. By not wearing a helmet you attracted this other cyclists Parent. The other cyclist then replayed their Parent recording and admonished you for not wearing a helmet (just as the cyclists own real parents would have).This then pushed you into the Child part of your personality where you felt sorry and stupid for not wearing a helmet just as you did when your parents told you off for being naughty when you were a kid.

Without wanting to start another helmet thread it is your decision whether you wear a helmet or not. Use your Adult and make the decision.
I like this reply.
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Old 07-03-04, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by capsicum
Would you do the same if they let there kids order undercooked eggs?
Most small kids can't ride over 10mph on the level, I can run that faster than that, should we see all the joggers out there troting along with helmets on? Oh and how about the jungle gym better slap one on there too. Maybe a few elbow and knee pads and don't forget the wrist braces and spine protectors. Better yet lets put them in a paded spherical room so there's no corners.
Am I there to see their (note the spelling) kids order undercooked eggs? No, I am not.

Does it matter how fast kids are riding? Not a ******** bit. Kids get older, if you haven't noticed, and the older they get the faster they ride. When they're 15 they're going fast enough to kill themselves on their bikes. Helmet warranted then? Yes, I think so. Start the habit early. Like I said before - it's cheap, it's easy, it can save you from death or permanent brain injury.

Furthermore, if someone decides, at age 25+ to ride without a helmet, fine. It's their choice, and at that point, as stupid as it may be, it's their choice to make. At age eight, can you expect a kid to have the life experience and knowledge necessary to weigh the risks against the (perceived) benefits and choose to not wear a helmet as a rational decision? Hell no.

Are you mentally challenged that you can't see the reasoning behind wearing a helmet? Maybe you've crashed without one a few too many times. The benefits are there, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. I pity your children and their brain-damaged future.
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Old 07-03-04, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave
Am I there to see their (not the spelling) kids order undercooked eggs? No, I am not.

Does it matter how fast kids are riding? Not a ******** bit. Kids get older, if you haven't noticed, and the older they get the faster they ride. When they're 15 they're going fast enough to kill themselves on their bikes. Helmet warranted then? Yes, I think so. Start the habit early. Like I said before - it's cheap, it's easy, it can save you from death or permanent brain injury.

Furthermore, if someone decides, at age 25+ to ride without a helmet, fine. It's their choice, and at that point, as stupid as it may be, it's their choice to make. At age eight, can you expect a kid to have the life experience and knowledge necessary to weigh the risks against the (perceived) benefits and choose to not wear a helmet as a rational decision? Hell no.

Are you mentally challenged that you can't see the reasoning behind wearing a helmet? Maybe you've crashed without one a few too many times. The benefits are there, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. I pity your children and their brain-damaged future.
Yes you are there to see them order the eggs thats the whole hypothetical point. So are the parents who do have enough life experiance etc. to make that decision, thats why I say the parents let them.

Yes the kids can go fast enough to kill themselves but what is the probability of this happening. You could get run down crossing the street just the same. heck I knew a guy that had a semi literaly park his trailer on his car and they needed to cut him out, is this reason enough for everyone to reenforce their cars against 50 foot trailers being parked on them?
I do see the reasoning behind this invention and acknowledge the beifits and detractors in full, however one must take into account the situation as the probabilities of various severity levels of accidents varies considerably and non uniformly.
For instance slowracing while drunk carries a high probability of a low severity crash but almost zero chance of a severe crash and a very low chance of hitting your head(about the same as walking). Sober on a wide smooth road carries a very low chance of crashing but a moderate chance of it being a severe crash. A downhill MTB race has a very high chance of crashing and of it being severe.

If you don't care to weigh the risk probabilities than you may as well lock yourself in a padded room because anything else increases the liklyhood of an accident, including a fatal hit and run as you slowly walk to the mailbox.

Perceived benifits are just as valid as real benifits in a pursuit of enjoyment, enjoyment being 100% perception.

I wear a $400.00 motorcycle helmet and a midrange($50 I think it was) cycle helmet FYI and the only times I've hit my head/helmet have been standing up to fast when working on something.
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Old 07-03-04, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by capsicum
Personally I don't have any time for self rightious pricks like that. Doctors and cops seem to be the worst offenders on a general basis(always exceptions of course) both in number of offenders and the fact that they often do their best to make sure a law is passed that forces(safety nazi's) everyone to live a certain way even when ridiculess (like chugging up hill). Hence many peoples dislike of those in otherwise very respectible occupations.
Yeah, those self righteous bastards. Can you imagine the nerve of your doctor, a man whose job it his to care for your physical well-being to suggest wearing a helmet? Screw you Doctor! I don't pay you to tell me how to care for myself! And the cops, always trying to enforce those crazy "laws." Don't they have something better to do?



Originally Posted by capsicum
No your not stupid, you said "hey I feel like riding without a helmet today" and accepted the slight increase in risk associated with that desision in exchange for the benifits. Its not like you were pushing the laws of physics on a casual ride if you were raceing or going for a personal best that would be a little different, but still your desision. Yelling at somone for not wearing a helmet is the same as yelling at somone in a restuarant because they ordered there eggs sunny side up(not cooked enough to kill possible salmonella) or their steak rare. Maybe they like sunny side up and don't mind the slight increase in risk.
No, he's not stupid at all for not wearing a helmet. Especially when you think at all those benifits he's gaining! Like for example... nothing... and... nothing! Yeah! And all he had to give up was that stupid life saving helmet.

Originally Posted by capsicum
Would you do the same if they let there kids order undercooked eggs?
Most small kids can't ride over 10mph on the level, I can run that faster than that, should we see all the joggers out there troting along with helmets on? Oh and how about the jungle gym better slap one on there too. Maybe a few elbow and knee pads and don't forget the wrist braces and spine protectors. Better yet lets put them in a paded spherical room so there's no corners.
Comparing walking to cycling is rediculous. Walking is a natural activity for humans, we were built to do it, it's beyond improbable that you will fall down and sustain serious injury by walking. Biking however, you're on an unnatural machine, going much faster than walking, higher off of the ground, with much less control. There are numerous other uncontrolable factors that can add to the danger of cycling, such as traffic (which you're often required to be in, unlike walking), bad roads, weather, etc.. That all combines for a fairly moderate risk of falling and injurying yourself. So why wouldn't you wear a helmet? It doesn't interfere with your life in anyway(Like locking yourself in a padded room), it doesn't hinder you at all, there are no negatives to wearing a helmet. It's stupid not to wear one.
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Old 07-03-04, 05:35 AM
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Negative comments seldom obtain the desired result, unless of course the person making the comment desires conflict.

I will make a concentrated effort to give positive reinforcement to a child that is wearing a helmet by complimenting them on how they look or on their choice of such a nice helmet.
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Old 07-03-04, 06:58 AM
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Curious how some people can be so rude. I wonder if the accuser goes up to other strangers and admonishes them for smoking? Or asks folks leaving liquor stores why they drink? Does he interrupt diners to ask why they ordered the fried cheese appetizer instead of the garden salad?
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Old 07-03-04, 08:44 AM
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Whoh a flame war eh?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion yes? I personally don't wear a helmet...maybe I should. There are arguements for and against. The ones for are obvious enough. It is my opinion though that there are some negatives to helmets.

They can be restrictive, both to your view and your comfort. Both factors could conceivably lead to an accidient. Also lethargy can set in, that is to say you might get the 'I have a helmet so I'm invincible' syndrome. Ultimatly I would probably still advocate the use of a helmet especially where children are involved but it is up to the individual (adult) to decide wheater pro's > con's or visa versa. When commuting I use powerful lights and a high vis jacket, as well as being for my own safety I feel this sets an example for others. I swear that where I live when I started wearing a high vis the usage among the population exploded, coincidence?...I don't know, do you believe in the butterfly effect? This of coarse leaves me with a conflict of conscience about wearing a helmet.

There are conflicting views out there, for example check... https://www.cyclehelmets.org/ and in particular https://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html#1013

Above all you want to be as safe as possible, with the interest of sustaining your life for as long as possible. It's a matter of assertaining what that path is. Incidentally I have never been told to 'get a helmet' while on the road but there have been near misses which resulted in me telling people to 'get some lights!'

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Old 07-03-04, 10:53 AM
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Don't wear a helmet.

Good for you. Buy one for someone who wants one but doesn't have one for whatever reason.
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Old 07-03-04, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by supcom
Curious how some people can be so rude. I wonder if the accuser goes up to other strangers and admonishes them for smoking? Or asks folks leaving liquor stores why they drink? Does he interrupt diners to ask why they ordered the fried cheese appetizer instead of the garden salad?
Yes, I'd like to see him interrupt a Hell's Angels rally and admonish everyone there for not wearing a helmet.

Anyway, it is unlikely that unsolicited advice like this will accomplish anything other than annoyance or even anger. How many people are going to make a lifestyle change because some random stranger told them to?

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Old 07-03-04, 01:20 PM
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I will never forget this experience.

I had recently moved to a large city and met up with a really cool guy while out riding and he invited me to a club ride with a very large, well known club. I met this guy and we rode to the ride together, both helmetless. This was back when hard shells were still fairly new and they were often just styrofoam shells.

Anyway, we were at the ride, just leaning on the bars and chatting, waiting to roll off, when the club president(a fairly well known national and world champion rider by the way) came over and literally started screaming at the top of his lungs at us that we should have a helmet on and he wasn't going to take responsibility for anything that might happen, and on and on for roughly 5 minutes trying to get us to leave even though maybe 50% of all the riders there didn't have helmets. I looked at my friend and he just kinda signaled to ignore the guy and all the other riders were snickering and looking embarassed.

It turns out this prez was willing to do all the administration work to keep the club functioning and so everyone just put up with his intimidation.

I have never had that experience since.
 
Old 07-04-04, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by capsicum
Yes you are there to see them order the eggs thats the whole hypothetical point. So are the parents who do have enough life experiance etc. to make that decision, thats why I say the parents let them.

Yes the kids can go fast enough to kill themselves but what is the probability of this happening. You could get run down crossing the street just the same. heck I knew a guy that had a semi literaly park his trailer on his car and they needed to cut him out, is this reason enough for everyone to reenforce their cars against 50 foot trailers being parked on them?
I do see the reasoning behind this invention and acknowledge the beifits and detractors in full, however one must take into account the situation as the probabilities of various severity levels of accidents varies considerably and non uniformly.
For instance slowracing while drunk carries a high probability of a low severity crash but almost zero chance of a severe crash and a very low chance of hitting your head(about the same as walking). Sober on a wide smooth road carries a very low chance of crashing but a moderate chance of it being a severe crash. A downhill MTB race has a very high chance of crashing and of it being severe.

If you don't care to weigh the risk probabilities than you may as well lock yourself in a padded room because anything else increases the liklyhood of an accident, including a fatal hit and run as you slowly walk to the mailbox.

Perceived benifits are just as valid as real benifits in a pursuit of enjoyment, enjoyment being 100% perception.

I wear a $400.00 motorcycle helmet and a midrange($50 I think it was) cycle helmet FYI and the only times I've hit my head/helmet have been standing up to fast when working on something.

omg.....what are you mentaly challanged......so your saying that people shouldnt wear helmets just because they have the same chance of getting hurt in some freak accident as they do on a bike...............you cant lock yourself in a padded room and avoid all risks but you can pull your head out of your A$$ and think im about to get on a bicycle, if i fall of even at 8 miles a hour and hit my head on the pavment i could kill my self, .....is it worth the risk
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Old 07-04-04, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Spider
Yes, I'd like to see him interrupt a Hell's Angels rally and admonish everyone there for not wearing a helmet.

Anyway, it is unlikely that unsolicited advice like this will accomplish anything other than annoyance or even anger. How many people are going to make a lifestyle change because some random stranger told them to?
Or even confront a father while the child isn't present, I'm sure that the presence of a child is the only thing thats kept some of these people from receiving a few head injuries of their own, unless he's only yelling at women and children. I know around here you wouldn't yell at to many folks before finding somebody that pops you one for being an a$$hole.

Originally Posted by Nelf
Yeah, those self righteous bastards. Can you imagine the nerve of your doctor, a man whose job it his to care for your physical well-being to suggest wearing a helmet? Screw you Doctor! I don't pay you to tell me how to care for myself! And the cops, always trying to enforce those crazy "laws." Don't they have something better to do?
I was refering to the ones that take it upon themselves to go to the state capitol and try to get laws passed forcing people to live a certain way. Giving advise when you go to them for advise is quite a bit different than having the attitude that their way is so grand and perfect that anyone with another opinion is a moronic peon and their liberty should be taken away for making such different choices, its the same attitude that anyone of the wrong religion is a heretic and should be saved from their beliefs by any means nessesary.

It's a cops job to enforce laws not to try and over ride the wishes of the people in a subcommity hearing. Yes I've been to a number of them as well as many other government functions and I've seen police make such blatent lies (its ok, its for the children, after all what are a few trampled rights here and there if it makes people live the 'correct' lifestyle) that the whole room, minus the senators and police, erupted in laughter. Of course non of that mattered because the subcommity head had the sole ability to keep the bill from being voted on by the legislature, talk about to much power.

Originally Posted by supcom
Curious how some people can be so rude. I wonder if the accuser goes up to other strangers and admonishes them for smoking? Or asks folks leaving liquor stores why they drink? Does he interrupt diners to ask why they ordered the fried cheese appetizer instead of the garden salad?
At least somone got my point about sunny side eggs.

Originally Posted by ChAnMaN
...if i fall of even at 8 miles a hour and hit my head on the pavment i could kill my self, .....is it worth the risk
hmm marathon runners average over 10mph better slap a helmet on, and you can choke on even a slice of bread so always think "I'd better not eat this solid food alone".
That reminds me of the people who state things like "It only takes 8 pounds of force to break a bone" yes a small hand bone under ideal force vectors, in reality each femure and tibula receives close to a ton(2000lbs) of force on a regular basis and I can support over 10lbs with my pinky for a short time.

Can I die from an 8mph tumble? Yes.
Is it more likely than slipping and falling on a knife in the kichen or a sharp stick while hiking? No, and I'm not about to get a kevlar vest, though I would be more cautious if the ground is wet.
And I've low sided my motor cycle at about 20mph with nothing more than a small bruise on the side of my butt that first touched down, not even a mark on my clothing other than a bit of dust that wiped off easy enough.

--------------------------------------------------
This thread isn't about the benefits of helmets anyway, its about jerkoffs looking to try and shove their ways down others throats. My opinion is, ready; It's non of your damm business so leave people alone.
I'm done with this thread so don't expect a reply though I may still read it.

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Old 07-04-04, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by orguasch
was out riding my bike with just my Skull Cap Bandana, when I was caught in a red light, and this cyclist said, How come you can afford to buy all those expensive stuff, and not afford a helmet. I was dumbfounded, what can I say, I just told myself, I am sorry, I am stupid...... I should have know better
Yes, I've yelled at fellow bikers to wear a helmet. But the way I figure it is, if your brain is worth less money to you then the cost of a helmet then don't buy one...and you did say you were stupid, so there you go, your brains are not worth the cost of the helmet!
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