AdventureStahl

+1 !

traction

I returned the shipping. He hasn't contacted me back in like 3 days, so I'm not sure if he's away or filing some complaint. Regardless, I'm willing to take it before Ebay and let them decide if that's what he desires.

In my return policy on Ebay I specified that I will not accept returns. As stated, the item is sold as is which is why he should have looked at it, because I didn't want it to be on my head like it is now (granted, my fault).

What I meant in context of "they have never given me any trouble" was that they don't come out of true often or flex. In about 6 years I only had them trued maybe 2 times. They were solid. Also to one of the above posters; negative, the spoke broke because a stick went through the wheel.

Profgumby

Good move refunding the shipping. But when you sell on Ebay, or any board for that matter, you can't "meant" anything. Be explicit. Look over the item yourself before you list it etc...and I would still call ebay/contact them myself if I were you. Explain the situation and let them know you refunded his shipping money and made an offer to cover the repairs. Ebay is generally fair but definitely slanted towards the buyer. Resolve the situation fairly but contact Ebay ASAP.

Bubba Zanetti

If I felt 100% sure I'm morally right in this situation, I would'nt be asking for other peoples opinion on the matter. Pay the 20 bucks and be done with it.

pitchpole

Buyer wants to nitpick over an old bike they bought on ebay? If they wanted a new bike with no problems they should have bought a new bike. The $40 he is asking for to true one wheel would almost cover an entire tune up at my LBS. I would like to know what bike shop this bozo is using. He had all the time in the world to inspect the bike since he picked it up. This is a classic case of buyers remorse.

You should have refunded the shipping charges sooner to strengthen your position but I still think you are in the right here. I would stop trying to reason with the buyer and start contacting ebay and paypal immediately to go on the offensive. I have battled it out with whiny buyers before and won. A negative feedback is not the end of the world.

bhop

Buyer is being a jerk IMO.

himespau 

Just contact ebay to let them know there's an issue and stay ahead of the game and tell them you offered $20 to fix the spoke. Make sure to mention he picked it up in person and had a chance to look at it. Stay on top of the situation. Some people don't like the hassle and will go away.

LemondFanForeve

Exactly!!! he couldve easily have inspected the bike, and saw the spoke/wheelset/rim issue, and probably still wouldnt have had an issue with it. Mostly on him, he's an imbecile, obviously. You could always make the claim, that once it left your place, it was out of your hands, and that you dont know if the bike incurred anymore damage, while he has it. IMO, you've been more than fair.

Doohickie

I think I would offer him something... $20? $60? Whatever, but point out that you're being more than generous. If you had shipped the bike to him, he would have a legitimate complaint. But he got a chance to examine the bike in person when he came to pick it up and he failed to do so. Shame on him.

joeprim

Have some big guys talk to him

Doohickie

"Perhaps you can work out an arrangement with my..... associates, Vito and Tony."

geo8rge

[QUOTE=traction;12447978]So I had a bike that has sat in my basement without being ridden for about 2 years. I sold it to a guy on ebay and stated that it needed some work here and there. Just some simple stuff, a tune up, new derailleur pulleys, brakes re-bled. He drove an hour to pick the bike up, no problems.

He emailed me yesterday and said that the item was not as described. As it turns out I forgot (2 years ago) that there was a broken spoke on the rear wheel. He also claims the rear wheel is bent.

I bought a Birdy for $200. It has a broken spoke that I was not informed about. I did not complain as I looked the bike over the obviously used bike and accepted it. Plus I do not complain all that much about anything. Spokes on Birdys are a pain in the butt to replace as they are way smaller than pre cut spokes. Spokes kept breaking so I ended up replacing the rim. But when I buy off CList I know what I am getting into, and do not advise others to buy used. Of course I buy used. But none of my used bikes worked out as expected.

From your description, worn out derailer pulleys, there is a lot of wear on the bike so I would expect there to be problems. The Wheel is most likely not bent (plastic deformation) due to a single spoke broken. Replacing the spoke + truing it are all that likely needs to be done. If it were me I would be a tad disappointed but would have just paid $2 for a spoke and replaced it myself. I would say replace 10 (5 groups of 2) as surrounding spokes might have been weakened. I personally would expect to have to true the wheel somewhat under all circumstances. On the other hand if he did some hard riding with the broken spoke he might have damaged the wheel rim.

If you want a judicial opinion post the exact craigslist ad and whatever representations you made.

You could bluff and offer his money back.

As far as negative feedback on ebay, ebay is totally biased in favor of sellers. I think you get to respond + they ditch old feed back. As the person lives near you your reputation in the area might suffer. There may be a way to have the dispute mediated locally or through eBay.

Camilo

If I were the seller on this case, I'd pay for the spoke replacement and re-truing. I did not describe the bike accurately and it would be my personal choice to make it right and take pride in doing what I consider to be the right thing rather than get into a pi$$ing match over $20. I would accept the guy's repair price because other than a personal opinion to the contrary, I have no reason to think he's lyiing about the estimate he got. He's the one who has to be happy with the wheel when it's done and he has every right to expect to be made whole on this deal. Frankly, it may be true that buyer beware and that he might be expected to see this defect, but the fact is, purposefully or not, the seller misrepresented the bike and maybe the buyer really had no idea how to inspect a wheel. He counted on the seller's description which I think is reasonable.

But that's just me and my sense of ethics. OP obviously feels differntly, but I personally think he's wrong.

frantik

Tell dood to get the wheel fixed and send you the receipt. if a branch went through the wheel and broke a spoke.. and you didn't mention it, that's totally your bad.

It sounds like the buyer spent a fair amount of $ on the bike so it's understandable for him to be a bit upset when he finds out that the wheelset needs repairs, which contradicts your implied statement that they were fine. unless you had some specific language about how there may be unknown or unmentioned problems then you might be SOL with ebay.

btw, to those saying it's the buyer's fault for accepting the broken bike: on ebay the buyer doesn't have the option to "not buy" once the auction is completed. they agree to buy under the conditions set by the seller. in this case it sounds like the buyer had already paid (since the shipping $ had to be returned). if the buyer paid with paypal, they can dispute the charges, and they usually have a month or so to raise a dispute. It's not like a cash transaction.. the buyer doesn't have to inspect the item when accepting it, they can take it home and determine then if it matches the seller's description.

the other option is to take the bike back.. don't pay the guy for gas money to drive it back but offer to refund him if he isn't happy with your offer to fix the wheel

and if you offered him $20, but he wants $40, just give him the extra $ and move on with your life.

contango 

If the buyer goes to collect the item and finds it's not as described I don't see how they could be expected to proceed with the transaction anyway. If I went to collect something I'd bid on and won through ebay and found it wasn't as described I'd walk - if you expect the transaction to proceed anyway just how far away from the stated description would you expect something to be before you refused to proceed? I can just imagine someone offering a brand new bike for sale and the buyer finding it's actually a well used child's bike but being told they have to hand over the cash anyway.

As someone already said a lot would depend on the exact wording of the ebay listing and the pictures. Either way it's easy to argue that someone who turned up and collected the bike had ample opportunity to inspect it before proceeding. If they had already paid in full they could still have walked and asked for a full refund then.

Had the seller been less honest he could have claimed that there were no broken spokes and the buyer must have broken one. Since the buyer had the chance to inspect the bike and took it away, apparently satisfied that it was as described, they'd have a hard time proving otherwise.

I think this is the best way to figure if the guy is trying his luck or truly unhappy with his purchase. If he's truly unhappy with it then he'll take the refund, if he's just trying to get a free repair he probably won't.

You still have to consider at what point you tell the guy to deal with it. If you offer him the $40 but he turns around and says that now he wants $60 to cover the time he's spent dealing with it, when do you tell him to take a hike?

frantik

most of the time with ebay sales, the seller says you have to pay within 3 days or some such time period. usually the buyer pays well before ever seeing the product in person, even if they pick it up. like in this case.. the buyer even had to wait for the seller to refund the shipping money they had already paid up front.
you tell him to take a hike when he starts to be unreasonable. if he got a quote to fix the wheel at $40, that's not unreasonable to expect it to be paid to get the bike to the state it was advertised in. if he starts asking for $ for "his time" or some BS.. no way..

if you're worried that you're getting jerked around, offer to pay the repair bill after he sends you the receipt. or work with ebay. or take a negative rating. for me, i'd pay $40 to keep my 100% positive rating on ebay, even though i rarey use the site any more because of bs just like this. Local sales only for me now...

contango 

There's still a big difference between paying for something unseen and then upon seeing it rejecting it as being "not as described", and paying for it, going to collect it, having ample opportunity to inspect it, taking it away (thereby creating an implicit agreement that it is as described) and only later claiming problems with it.

Personally I find it remarkable that it would cost $40 to true a wheel. My home town isn't exactly renowned for being a cheap place to do anything and my LBS would charge me the equivalent of half that.

I still reckon the way to flush out a guy who's jerking around is to offer a full refund for the bike, on a "take it as is or leave it" basis. Given the guy apparently had chance to inspect the bike and took it away he can't possibly ask for anything fairer than the chance to reject it despite having previously inspected it and accepted it.

frantik

in ebay-land, receiving the item is NOT an implicit agreement that the item is as described. it's not like craigslist. as a buyer you have to pay within 3 days no matter what. Most of the time on ebay you pay long before you get the product. picking it up in person is no different from getting it in the mail.. just because you took it home doesn't mean that the transaction is over. Ebay allows you 45 days from when you pay to file a dispute. If you pay with paypal, you can file a dispute with them within 45 days as well.

it doesn't matter if the guy picks it up and says he's 100% happy, it's perfect, whatever.. he can still dispute the sale within 45 days

i dont think that will "flush out" anything. Sure, it's a legitimate response, "oh just return it for a refund", but it still favors the seller. It causes the buyer to have to spend money to return a product, when it's the seller who misrepresented the item. It's basically an easy way for a seller to weasel out of minor mistakes; If the buyer returns the bike for a refund, the seller would be out no $ except listing fees, while the buyer is out the gas money and time for 2 trips.

if you sold a wheel that had a branch go through it and didn't mention it, do the right thing and pay for the wheel to get fixed. the guy is being anal and probably should have expected wear like this, and if he had an ounce of mechanical know-how could repair it for $5 or less.... but that is why you make damn sure your listing is 100% accurate!

contango 

If I were the seller and someone collected the item, presumably inspected it before taking it away, and then later claimed it wasn't as described I'd immediately tell ebay that they inspected the item first. From the page you linked (emphasis mine):

If you received an item and it doesn't match the seller's description, you can open a case right away. You must open a case within 45 days of making payment.

"You received" suggests a passive process to me, in the sense that the buyer received it in the mail rather than collecting it. Obviously if something is mailed you don't get the chance to inspect it at all. There's a huge difference between being sent something unseen and having the opportunity to inspect it. If you've handed over the money before inspecting the goods (which, as you say, is entirely possible) then if you aren't happy with the goods the most obvious thing to do is request a refund right there and then, pointing out the difference between the description and the reality. Again, from here if the seller wanted to be unscrupulous he could easily have claimed there were no broken spokes when the buyer took it away and so the buyer must have broken one in transit.

It will flush out the kind of dodgy buyer who notices something but doesn't complain until later figuring he can demand something from the seller. It does allow the seller to get out of minor mistakes. It also protects the seller from a stitch-up where the buyer describes a problem, gets his friendly LBS to true both wheels and invoice as if the cost was for truing one wheel and then demanding the seller pays the bill. $40 seems hugely high to true a single wheel.

This comes back to reasonable expectations. If you buy a bike that's been sitting unused for two years you check it over. The mechanical know-how on the part of the buyer isn't relevant - to true the wheel for $5 you'd need to have the tools to remove the cassette, ideally a truing stand etc. If I was paying $40 to have a wheel trued I'd expect exotic dancers to entertain me while I waited.

frantik

think about if you were the buyer. i was a buyer and read "wheels haven't given me any trouble" and then AFTER I tell the buyer, hey there is a spoke missing, i find out that it's been through some major stress, i would be upset and want a new wheel or the existing wheel fixed. i don't think it's unreasonable to ask the seller to make it right.

from what it sounds like, the buyer guy is a jerk, but what he's asking for isn't unreasonable for an ebay transaction

it's not only entirely possible, it's what happened in this case. the guy paid for the bike within 3 days of the aucton ending. he has 45 days after he pays to file a claim. this isn't craigslist or the flea market where all sales are final.

it doesn't matter if you see a difference between shipping and picking it up, it matters if ebay and paypal see a difference. i suspect they don't. i wouldn't waste me time dealing with the stupid ebay/paypal dispute resolution bs just to save $20, especially if i made a mistake on the listing.

i'm pretty sure ebay will allow you to offer a refund if he brings back the bike.. not 100% sure. i still think that it's lame on a seller's part to do that, but i think it's within the rules of ebay. i would still just tell the guy to send me the receipt or talk to the LBS myself

cervelo4me

this is why i dont get involved with strangers selling things.id rather let a bike shop buy it off me and take a little less or just give it to some kid who cant afford a bike.were talking low amounts of money here anyhow so its not worth the hassle of some nut job pulling his nonsense on me.

mas-az

+1 he had an opportunity to look at the bike and he accepted "as is" the moment he loaded in his truck/car. It isn't like you shipped the bike and then he found the issues.

rumrunn6

good reason to sell on CL. can you give the buyer negative feedback?

Cipher

If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe you (seller) can leave negative feedback anymore. (Eprey policy change).

Oramas

beware of a buyer using a "not as described" claim with pay pal. The seller always loses! I just got ripped off in a transaction involving a rare pair of Nike's from 2005. The buyer claimed he received a "different" pair of shoes not the $300 ones I sent. Pay Pal reversed the charges putting me negative and the buyer sent me back a pair of shoes that were some generic Nike's. I appealed and Pay Pal kindly informed me that there is no seller protection in this type of claim. I explained to them that their policy is facilitating fraud in that anyone can claim they received a different item and just send back some random thing in return.