Rude LBS Owner
 

I was at my LBS today and had an unfortunate experience with the owner. I went to get a rear wheel replaced that was ordered two weeks ago, and in the short time I was there -- the owner was extremely rude. I'm wondering if this sort of experience is common. I'm also relatively new to bicycle commuting, if it matters.

The rear wheel that was being replaced was bent due to the poor road conditions on my commute, and I think from carrying too much weight on my rear rack. I carried 45 pounds of groceries on my last trip and by the time I got home the wheel was extremely bent (which I think was pretty foolhardy of me). I've also had issues with the spokes popping out on every other ride, which is probably tied to the weight I put on the back.

Every time I've been to the LBS to get the spokes replaced, the owner treats me like an idiot, and always blames me; claiming that the broken spokes couldn't be caused by the road conditions. Today: he blamed me for the wheel (even though I was there to get it replaced), accused me of lying about how my rear wheel got so bent, that I was full of crap. He also got especially snarky when I asked him if it was possible to patch my inner tube because it had gotten a flat on my last ride, and that it was impossible for the rear wheel to be so warped from a grocery run or from the weight that I had put on it. He also let me know that I should just get a moped since (obviously) bicycles are far too much for me to handle.

All in all, this is the worst experience I've ever had while in a STORE. I am wondering, though, if there is any merit to what he says regarding the warped wheel? I really don't want to repeat the same mistake(s).

Thanks,

Your fault or a fauly wheel doesn't matter. Were you paying for the repairs/replacements? If a shop owner talked to me like that we'd have some serious words and there might be a wheel flying across the shop. He would also NEVER get my business again and I'd do everything within my power to disuade others from going there, such as posting signs and calling the Better Business Bureau. An editorial in the local paper, local news, etc might work also.

I agree there's no excuse for rudeness.

As to whether it was your fault or not, obviously there are limits to how much weight different wheel are designed to take. You don't say how heavy you are, what sort of wheels they are etc. etc. I use heavy-duty mountain-bike wheels on my touring bike so that I don't have to worry about being fully loaded, but I wouldn't expect my road bike wheels to stand up to similar punishment. having said that, I wouldn't expect them to just collapse if I put on some weight, either.

vote with your dollars...somewhere else.

I don't tolerate rudeness or slovenliness. I used to shop a couple of different LBS's to help out the local economy. Last time I popped in the one to purchase some cables for a road bike the owner made a smart ass comment about not carrying parts to fit bikes for the likes of me( I primarily ride IGH city bikes)...how soon they forget. I had spent over $1000 at that store in the previous year. His loss.



Aaron :)

Move on, find another LBS, it sounds like the one you are using does not deserve your business.

What is your objective?

If your objective is not to have spokes constantly breaking, you need a stronger wheel. To a degree it doesn't matter how your wheel happened to become warped. Whether it's due to the roads that you ride on, the loads that you carry, or your riding style doesn't really matter because that's the enviornment the wheel has to contend with. You probably need a pretty good hand built wheel so don't expect it to be cheap.

If your objective is to punish the shop owner for being rude to you, that's easy. Find another shop.

Your wheel problems are unusual.

What kind of bike and what kind of wheels? How many spokes? How much do you weigh? Are you jumping curbs? Are spokes "popping out" when you aren't carrying 45lbs of stuff?

It sound like you need stronger wheels and learn to ride more carefully.

You wanted the LBS to patch a tube? If so, that's really odd. They don't do that since what they would charge would be about the price of a new tube. It's something that you should be able to do anyway,

===============

We are only hearing one side of the story.

Given that your problem is very unusual, I would not be too surprised that your story is missing important details.

Weinmann AS23x on a Haro Callahan (700c, 36 holes, single wall). I weigh 180 (male, 6'1), I don't jump curbs and I usually go out of my way to avoid them. And yes, they were popping out even when I wasn't carrying anything extra; while going uphill, and once while I was going downhill. I bought the bicycle in late May, and started experiencing problems in early June. The first time that a spoke popped out was while on a ride to my college (still not using any extra weight). After that trip to the college, I took it to the bike shop and the owner noticed that wheel was warped. Before that point, I was probably carrying 20-30 pounds of weight on the rear rack.

When I bought the bike, I was given a free year of tune-ups. I can assume that since he believes I'm at fault for my bike's condition, he considers any time spent on me a waste since he's not being paid for repairs. I asked him earlier yesterday how much weight I could put on my rear rack, and he refused to tell me -- saying that it wouldn't matter. However...I did nothing but ride two miles back with my groceries and by the time I got home -- the wheel was really bent. Here's a photo I took of the bent wheel: http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/SSPX0003.jpg

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of that. I'll know that for the future at least.

Let me know if you have any other questions, please. And thanks for the responses.

My LBS owner is more than helpful, and has the notion of "old school" customer service. Goes out of his way to make sure you are getting the service and/or product you need. He ordered a bike for me, before I put a down payment on it just so I didn't lose out on the production run. Stand up guy.

I have a hard time believing the wheel taco'd like that just because of a grocery run.

Be curious to know how much you weigh. 45 lbs. is not a lot of weight to carry on a commuter.

Years ago, I had an experience at an LBS with a rude owner and and even ruder son. Wasn't just me they were a$$holes to. Owner *****ed at me for parking my bike that carried the sticker of a competing shop too close to the front door. Last straw. I left, got on the bike, never went back. Even though the other shop was higher priced, they got all my business. Hurt my teenage pride, lose my adult business. That was 30+ years ago. They've lost out on thousands of dollars of bike & parts sales as well as referrals over the years.

Some business owners are jerks because they can't be fired. Go elsewhere if possible. Your LBS owner could make a better sale by providing you with a bulletproof wheel instead of blaming you for the failure of the original wheel. He's not bright enough to see this.

*new info*

So you're 180 lbs. That's an average weight. If you're not jumping sliding, or smashing into things, the rim is not up to the task for some reason. See my above comment about upgrading. Sounds defective to me. Had it happen to me with a MTB rear rim. The replacement rim that the shop recommended lasted ten years. LBS owner could have told you nicely that it was in your best interest to have him put in a new tube. Sounds like a situation where the shop owner is a bike technician and not a businessman.

Something else is at play to make your rim taco like that.

What could cause it? I've asked the owner this, and he said from popping curbs. On my ride to the store, there aren't any curbs to hit. On my way home, though, I did hit a tiny pothole but I don't think that it could have caused the wheel to bend so badly. I only noticed a bend in the wheel while I was biking uphill to get back home, because I was getting such a bad resistance that I had to push it up the hill. I keep my bike locked up in front of the store, if it matters. It's possible that someone tried bending the rear wheel to steal it, but I didn't notice any damage when I came back out.

I only weigh 180 pounds (male, 6'1). When I first bought the bike, I think I was around or lighter than 200.

This is the crux of your problem. Please tell me this is the ONLY shop within 100 miles. Otherwise, you volunteer for this treatment. I'll make no excuse for this guy, but you should consider voting with your wallet.

I don't really know the facts or what's going on here, but the only wheel I've tacoed like that was from standing on it trying to unbend aluminum when I was a total idiot... and the only ones I've seen like that by others involved smashing the wheel into things... and I mean walls and vehicles, not curbs. Got a neighbor that really doesn't like you?

http://www.harobikes.com/mtb/bikes/Metro/32/

(Seems like a decent bike.)

It looks like you are using fairly wide tires (a good thing).

That weight doesn't seem excessive. It doesn't seem like you should be having broken spoke problems.

It's possible wheels were not built very well. Sometimes, machine-built wheels need to have the spokes retentioned.

How much pressure do you use in your tires? How often do you check for pressure? (Note that one uses more pressure for a heavier load.)

With bikes without suspension, you need to get off of the seat to absorb bumps. (Wider tires reduce the need for that somewhat.)

The wheel isn't exactly "bent". It looks like a Pringle "potato" chip. That can happen if the wheel is hit (like by a car) from the side.

Wheels have a lot of vertical strength but not much lateral (horizontal) strength. If the spoke tension isn't correct (or even), the wheel will be more prone to "taco" like in your picture.

==================================

It does seem like your wheel problem is unusual. While it doesn't excuse it, it's possible that the LBS's attitude is related to your problem being unusual.

It would seem that either (1) the wheel wasn't built correctly or (2) it was abused/damaged. What you are saying indicates the first but the LBS is assuming the second.

IMHO that rim may be on the light duty side. However I suspect that the wheel build was suspect. I also suspect that if you had spokes replaced in the past that they didn't bother to check the wheel over very carefully, probably just tossed the spoke in there and snugged it up. I have seen a wheel taco when spokes broke, especially if it was under any type of lateral load, like going around a corner.

I would A) find a new LBS and B) get a quality hand built wheel by someone that knows what they are doing. I hand build my own wheels with middle of the road components and get thousands of trouble free miles out of them. The rear wheel on a bike takes the lion's share of the load, when you pile things on a rack you add even more load to an already stressed component. It would pay to get the best you can afford.

Aaron :)

+1.

He should be able to get something quite sufficient for reasonable amount of money. That is, "the best you can afford" sounds expensive but doesn't have to be.

The first bike shop within twenty miles, but you're right. I'll try finding another store, even if it means going out 30-40 miles.

Interesting. My seat can be uncomfortable, and I do stand on the bicycle a lot. That wouldn't have any effect on the wheel, would it? That said, I don't stand when I'm carrying a lot of weight.

There was an incident where a driver was forcing me off the road, and I got levered straight into a wide telephone pole. I don't remember the bicycle hitting the pole, but I put my right foot down to stop an impact and it resulted in my foot being fractured. If the bicycle did go into the pole, wouldn't it have only done something to the front? That's really the only incident that I can recall.

I'm hoping that this wheel will last, and that the prior was just poorly constructed. I can say that the owner is at least a good mechanic, but he certainly lacks interpersonal skills. A positive is that he let me know that the rear wheel was still in-warranty, so that was nice of him when he could have easily just tricked me into buying a new rear wheel.

Hm. I see. I'll definitely check to make sure the spokes are properly adjusted, because I didn't see him adjust the spokes at all, though he may have done so before I arrived. I also check the pressure in my tires about every other week.


Thank you for the responses everyone's given. They've been helpful.

The incident would have taco'd the wheel immediately (at least, that the usual course of events!).

Unless you have experience building wheels and/or have a tensiometer, I'm not sure how you would check.

So, you got a new wheel?

What you might consider is taking to another shop and (pay to) have them go over the wheels (both of them). The place you go to should have a good reputation for building wheels. (It might cost you $25/wheel.)

Good luck.

My vote is the problem is from a machine-built wheel with the wrong tension and likely not having a proper final truing done by the LBS.

The LBS should have checked the spoke tension and done a final truing of both wheels before turning the bike over to you. The shop owner should have figured out the problem as soon as the first spoke broke so soon after the NEW bike went out the door. This LBS owner does not deserve your business.

Bad roads and heavy loads take time to wear a wheel down. LBS owes you a new wheel for free.

Some LBSs will patch a tube for you and likely teach you how to patch your own tubes at the same time. Some LBS teach maintenance classes. Those are the type of shops you want to do business at.

Do get both wheels checked at a different LBS.

Oh, yes. I meant that I'd take it to another bike shop to have it checked. Sorry, I should have clarified.

I'm leaving now to get my groceries, so I'll respond to anything I haven't when I return.

Thanks,

I work at an LBS, and no matter how wrong a customer might be, they should be treated diplomatically. There's no reason to go back there if they have that sort of attitude.

Moving on to your wheel problems... to make a long story short, I suggest getting a better rear wheel, one that uses

1. a freehub rather than a freewheel, which eliminates bent/broken axles
2. a stronger rim, Weinnman ZAC19 is one of the best strength-to-cost options
3. top-quality spokes, either DT Swiss or Wheelsmith, which are fatigue-resistant
4. stick with 36-spoke for this type of duty
5. Velox rim tape
6. and built by hand by someone who values your business and is a good wheelbuilder


I shop with my bike too, and if I could get 45 pounds' worth of groceries into my panniers, I wouldn't think twice about hauling that much by bike. However, I'd also use a front rack and put as much weight as practical on the front wheel. I'm partial to lowrider front racks, they stabilize the bike and handle heavy loads with less top-heaviness.

Anyway, get a front rack and bags, and put your front wheel to work. It's much stronger than the rear because it's not dished, and has a very easy job.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...Bgon/022-1.jpg

Complete newbie here (and if I'm wrong, please correct me), but if your bike is brand new, your LBS guy sucks at putting a bike together or the company put on sucky rims/tires. Your bike should be under warranty. I weigh in at 216lbs and out of the several bikes I own have never had a problem with the tires/rims. I haven't tried putting racks or 45lbs of groceries on a bike, but I would think most bikes could handle that otherwise the touring bikes would never make it. And those of us under Athena/Clydesdales would never be able to ride a bike if the rims busted out under weight.

I would take your bike to another LBS(s) and see what they say about your problem. If it's a manufacturing defect and all the rims are that way, I'd have some new ones from another company put on by another shop.

Hmm..another thought after looking at the pic and the other posts, I wonder if a car hit/backed into your bike w/o you knowing it while at the store.

Ok so screw that bike store. It doesn't matter how wrong you are. No excuse to insult you or treat you like you are second class. There are always other resources that you could turn to rather than spend your money there. Why would anyone pay to be insulted and belittled?

It's your turn now to tell him that [I]HE[I] was wrong to treat you that way and get your bike fixed somewhere else.