thatguy512

i heard good reviews but im really pissed right now because they said there were low stock on the bike i wanted to buy and i had to complain to them to make them put it at OUT instead of low stock.

jbtute

I would say the same thing. I also don't consider my $1500 BD cheap. I'll put it next to any bike at any LBS in the same price range. I have a Ti/Rival lechamp. Although I've only put a few hundred miles on it as it's pretty new, it's an excellent bike. The build quality is as good as I've seen. The parts/spec list is also very good value. The fact that I bought it close to the price an LBS shop pays for a similar bike doesn't bother me in the least.

My wife and I also have BD 29er MTBs. Mine has well over a thousand miles on it and has also been an excellent value. It's an XT bike and performs as well as any other XT 29er. It just costs a bit less, but comes with no service. I'm ok with that.

Although we like to dream that there is all this really complex engineering in our rides, the reality is that bikes are very simple machines. A much much more complex motorcycle can be purchased new for less than many bicycles. A bicycle can be entirely assembled from a pile of parts in a few hours (except the chain if you had 500 pieces...). There are relatively little material costs. The profit margins in bicycles are HUGE. When you have a product that requires roughly $150-200 in raw materials $100 in labor and sells for $5k+, there's no reason to think a half priced bike can't be built with the same quality.

rogerstg

You probably should deal with your LBS instead of BD or any other on line merchant if simple stock status issues are going to disturb you that much.

thatguy512

lol it's not that............well i guess it is that but i been waiting for awhile to get a road bike.Spent countless hours online and on here trying to soak up as much info as i can and while doing all this i kept checking to make sure it was in stock which i assumed it was because it said low inventory not out of stock.Not to mention i went from basically no knowledge to a pretty good amount.Came time to get the actual bike and it still said low stock and not out of stock.I went to check out and it told me there was none in stock.I would also go and support my LBS but i just dont get as much as i can.Come a bike with 105 rear derailleur and tiagra shifters and front derailleur for 600.

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/lt2300_x.htm

Ron Harry

[QUOTE=wahoonc;13037739]Bikes Direct...sells Direct. You get a bike that needs work.

Buy a bike from your LBS, it costs a bit more, however it should come set up, adjusted and ready to roll.
<snip>
Yes can save a few dollars, it is your decision as to what your time is worth and your skill level.

"a few dollars"? I smile;

I've been studying the ads for months now. BD offers bikes with components that would be through the stratosphere in price at a LBS. The savings are not just a 'few bucks', but at least 50% on just about everything they offer [some substantially more].
In my 'price range' (what I can afford), I could never even consider a dura ace bike...or with top notch Kysrium wheels to boot...but automatically be led to the 105's with triplecoque CF and manufacturer hubs at the LBS (and even they costing an arm and leg).

I want to support my LBS...I really do. But BD allows me to dream upon things otherwise out of my reach. At the kind of prices BD offers, I find it hard to justify anything else...with service, fitting, or warranty etc. You're talking thousands of dollars of difference for a top performance level bike. Is 'service, fitting, and warranty' worth 'thousands' of dollars? And of course, there's the name game [brand name]. But by everything I've read, there is nothing lacking in Motebecane or the other bikes BD sells [like Kestrel], but only 'name recognition'.

Not sure why I'm hawking BD's virtues here, since I haven't even ordered from them. I guess I'm appreciative of the 'inclusive feeling' I get [that I can now afford, and thusly dream upon, bikes I formally had no business even thinking about]...and also a bit of resentment in realizing the markup that name brand bikes apparently recieve at our 'expense'. I always like the comparison some make that bikes today cost more than a car, ha. Brings it home you see. Ever wonder why you can buy cheap auto tires for what you pay for bike tires? Markets are what they are I suppose; but it don't add up IYAM.

Still, I want to support my LBS. But not to be stupid about it either.

SilverStretch

BD.com vs. LBS doesn't really have to be an either/or proposition - I had my Motobecane Sprint shipped directly to an LBS...they charged me $50 or whatever to assemble and test...I ended up buying shoes, cages, bottles, and so forth there in the store. They missed out on a low-margin bike sale but made solid margins on goods and services, and my bike has been trouble-free in the year since - the LBS even tuned it up for free this past spring.

IMHO, the problem with BD isn't value (folks frequently criticize their frames on BF, but never present anything in the way of evidence); it's their seemingly random supply chain management. Their stock situation for popular-sized bikes can be so hit-or-miss that it comes across as a bait-and-switch (that is; the $900 Aluminum-carbon-105 bike is advertised but sold out except for 48cm, but hey, while you're here, the $1900 carbon-Dura-Ace bike is fully stocked). It's not really an apples-to-apples shopping experience when I can go get whatever Trek I want today at the LBS, but for the BD bike I need to get on an email list and then wait / hope / pray for some inventory.

That said, my Moto was exactly what I hoped for and I continue to love to ride it...

Joemess

And likewise I always suspect that the posts that praise BD are shills for the company.....

ricebowl

People used to look down on Giant as a step below becaues of their price point or where they were made. Not me mind you, I appreciate the value both companies offer. Have you seen many owners complaining about the quality of their BD frames?

Don't own one but by next bike might be from BD either a CX or touring bike.

cyccommute 

Be aware that there are trade offs. I purchased a BD bike as a donor bike with no intention of riding the bike. I just needed the parts. It really didn't save me any money to purchase the bike that way since many of the parts that I wanted weren't all that great. I used the Ultegra shifters and derailers as well as the wheels and that's about all.

The fork was a carbon fiber but it had a steel steer tube. A straight up aluminum fork would have been lighter and I'm not sure a steel fork wouldn't have given it a run for its money. The 'carbon' post was a carbon wrapped aluminum post that was heavier than most cheap posts. The brakes weren't anything to write home about and the crank bearings were so tight in the bottom bracket that I had to use a pipe wrench to take them off, destroying them in the process. I couldn't find compatible replacement bearings for the crank and had to get an entirely new crank. The bars were okay but not really to my liking - Ritchey Biomax bars aren't all that comfortable. The stem was too short so I need a new stem. The headset wasn't anything to write home about either and I hadn't planned on using it anyway.

Basically, my 'donor bike' parts cost me $800 which is a chunk of change to pay for a set of Ultregra shifters, Ultegra derailers and a set of wheels.

As a complete bike, I wasn't all that impressed either. Nothing really all that special and certainly not worth the $1600 they claimed the bike was worth.

Steely Dan

maybe it depends on the BD bike you buy. my Le Champ SL Ti seems like it was a pretty good deal on the components.

below are google search prices, better deals can of course be found through sales on the interwebs, but this is what came up in a 2 second search.

Mavic Ksyrium Equippe wheel set - $450
vittoria rubino pro III tires - $80
ultegra 6700 crank - $250
ultegra 6700 cassette - $60
ultegra 6700 chain - $40
ultegra 6700 FD - $50
ultegra 6700 RD - $90
ultegra 6700 brifters - $230
ultegra 6700 brakes - $150
105 SPD-SL pedals - $70
ritchey WCS ergo bars - $70
ritchey WCS stem - $50
ritchey WCS seatpost - $70
ritchey pro saddle - $65
FSA IS2 headset - $50


so that totals up to $1,775. i paid $2,000 for the bike, so i got a beautiful Ti frame and full carbon fork for ~$225. not too bad, especially considering that the bike came 90% assembled. others have said that BD's frames are cheap and crappy, but i honestly don't see it in the frame i have. as i said before, the only thing my frame lacks is snob appeal. snob appeal is CRITICALLY important for many riders, but i just can't be bothered to care about that kinda stuff.

and more importantly, there's just no way in hell that i could have bought a complete Ti bike spec'ed out with all of the above from an LBS that comes anywhere close to $2,000. if your LBS is selling Ti bikes with full ultegra drive trains and Ksyrium equippe wheelsets for 2,000 clams, then i want to start going to your LBS.

Rataan

I got a "bargain" mail order bike a few years ago. Remember Ibex? The parts alone were almost worth the asking price, so who cares if the frame is mediocre? Well, it was a MTB and that frame broke eight miles from the trail head in a national forest an hour before dark. Not my happiest time in the great outdoors. After getting my money back from Ibex, I bought a Titus that cost 50% more, but rode better, looked better, etc. I think you get exactly what you pay for with these bikes and others like them. I did a head to head comparison between the BD $2000 CF Ultegra model and my $3000 Giant OCR C1, which I paid $2700 for new. It is highly debatable if the savings amounts to much at all in this case. Granted, my Giant is a 2007 model, but the current equivalent is very similar and lists for $3200. My Giant came with better wheels and has the most comfortable road frame I have ever ridden. How much is that worth? I've bought and sold a few high end bikes, and I can tell you that the name means plenty if you ever decide to sell it.

It's all in the parts, eh? A frame is a frame...Really? Those frame designs are all from 10 years ago or more, and that says nothing about the quality of manufacturing. It doesn't make much sense to wax ecstatic over the parts when the main part is a complete generic of unknown quality. What about warranty? Does it matter? If the company isn't around for the long run, the warranty is just so much more marketing.

billyymc

Weird. I have two IBEX bikes - one Ignition that I built myself, just got a good deal on the frame when they went out of business for a while. I ride it hard on some pretty technical singletrack here in the east, and I'm a clyde. No problems. My daughter is on a IBEX Alpine 500, ridden much easier, but no problems there as well.

IBEX had a pretty decent following on mtbr - despite issues with the Ignition frame design that resulted in the front derailler hitting the chainstay when the shock bottomed out. There are ways around that, and I rarely have the problem wiht mine.

IBEX is back in business with different owners, some new bikes, some of the same lineup as before.

BTW, I ride with a guy who broke his very expensive Titus frame at the dropouts. Same trails my IBEX is on, so all makers have problems. I believe IBEX frames are fine, same with Titus frames, same with BD frames.

Steve B.

So to support the local LBS I buy a Fisher mt. bike, made by Trek and with GF pretty much not involved. Or a Trek with Bontrager wheels ? and is Keith really involved as well ?. I did buy my Lemond frame at my LBS, but Greg's entire road geometry concept was long gone at that point. It replaced a Klein, also purchased at the LBS, with Gary gone as well.

And how about a Schwinn ?. That's not a mail order, yet also hasn't been owned by a Scwinn family member in a decade ?. They all went and started Waterford.

Just sayin' and I do support my LBS, but I know what I'm buying.

jbtute

I've personally seen a broken Madone 5.2 that my buddy ownes - owned... Trek did replace for free, but it still left him walking. Treks are all crap! I've never had a problem with any of the 3 Motobecanes I own, which have made many trips around the slickrock trail - which is a graveyard for lots of bikes - as well as many trips around the northern Utah mountains with a 200+ lb rider. I've never seen a broken Motobecane frame.

By this logic Motobecane >>> Trek.

A LOT of mountain bikes come out of Kinesis factory. If you've never done so, get on the Kenisis website and build your dream frame. You can just pick from a bunch of pre-drawn options for practically every part of the frame. It seems kinda hard to believe that a lot of cost goes into aluminum mountian bike frames when there are about 3 factories in Taiwan that produce 95+ percent of aluminum frames. Basically a buyer can just select from a set of pre-drawn forms. You pick a material, extrusion size and/or formed tube shape for your top, down, and seat tubes, Then you select your stays: , A bottom bracket, head tube, and some dropouts and order it up. IIRC large orders get you to around $30-50 per frame.

Then you choose a fork and groupo or a mix of various components and you've got yourself a bike.

Or they offer a list of pre-made options. I kinda like this one:

Are all mail-order bikes the same? Probably not. Just like all bike shop bikes vary. I'm simply not buying the idea that there is some type of secret technology or costs that bike shop bikes are using that are unique. While I agree that there is value to be offered by LBS, I don't buy into the argument that bikes should be as expensive as they are or that you cannot buy a high quality bike from an online seller.

springs

One thing about BD is that they don't offer a relaxed geometry frame, like say a Roubaix, RS, Synapse, etc., or if they do it's hard to tell from the published specs. At least the Kestrels spec stack and reach, but Motobecanes don't.

Rataan

Actually, it isn't weird. I was told by the infamous Jack from the original Ibex that they recalled the Apogee frames because of a manufacturing issue. Mine was just one of many.

billyymc

Ok - must have been an early model or something - don't recall that being on their website when I bought bikes there. Don't know who bought them, but hopefully they'll do better this time around.

Rataan

Holy obfuscation, Batman! What does any of that prove about BD? Show me where the equivalence point is between BD frames and any brand you care to choose. Are we supposed to believe that these are the best frames in the world? They have the latest designs, zero defect manufacturing, and the last word in fit and finish? They certainly don't look it.

CNY James

I've had 2 BD bikes... the first was my first road bike (2002 Fuji Finest AL) which I actually bought on craigslist... I probably over paid but I was new to cycling, eager to have a bike, a little clueless. overall though, the bike served me well and i passed it on to my brother for what we felt was a fair price.

the second is a 2010 Dawes SST-AL. I bought it last year and love it. It rides nice and has been solid. All the crap that the naysayers bring like the rims coming out of the box with loose spokes and out of true and stuff needing major adjustment was not true in my case. It was my primary bike in 2010 (hence me selling my Fuji to my brother) and I put many miles on it. I haven't ridden it as much this year b/c I got my Felt and quite frankly, I haven't ridden any bike much at all this year. It definitely took the backseat to the Felt (difference between a $2k bike and a $370 bike) but it still has its place and each time I ride it is just as fun as the first time I rode it.

I'm no BD spokesperson but I don't hesitate to tell people that I had a positive buying experience and really enjoy the product that I got. The price was right, the bike is exactly what I was looking for, and if my Dawes disappeared tomorrow, I'd have another on order before going to bed.

thatguy512

exactly,as my other post said i was ranting about inventory but a couple days later i got lucky and they restocked the size i needed.

jbtute

No one has zero defect manufacturing. The highest precision manufacturing of mechanical items is probably at an automobile plant. Even if you CT scanned every frame - like Toyota does with it's Aluminum castings which I doubt any bike maker would spend the $ to do - you would likely miss defects if there were an issue with a sheet of your carbon, or especially if you had an issue with your epoxy.

Your point? (Seriously, I have no idea where you were going with this)

I don't think they claim to have the worlds best frame... as if such a thing exists. They make - imagine this- an adequate frame for a wide variety of riders at a competitive price. That's really all that's claimed. The same can be said for the Cavalo frames and probably a lot of others.

And that's the "equivalence point" you're looking for. It performs the function that it was intended for. A bike that's adequately light weight, rides well, and is reasonably durable. The rest is simply fluff. Cool colors and fancy shapes, if your ego drives you, go for it. They don't make a bike better.

I DO know that carbon layup is not particularly difficult. Carbon fabric or roving is easy to source and is not particularly expensive. Carbon epoxies are also relatively easy to source and not particularly expensive in quantities needed to build a road bike frame.


What is somewhat humorous is that you apparently have bought into the hype that some other brand is the "best frame in the world" as you put it... without any verification of that. The reality is that you can't say your frame is better or worse than a BD frame, although you probably paid a lot more for it right? (I assume deep down you actually believe it's better - blind faith is a wonderful thing) Did the extra money increase your enjoyment? I'm sure your LBS was pleased with your choices. I hope you enjoy riding it.

jbtute

No one has zero defect manufacturing. The highest precision manufacturing of mechanical items is probably at an automobile plant. Even if you CT scanned every frame - like Toyota does with it's Aluminum castings which I doubt any bike maker would spend the $ to do - you would likely miss defects if there were an issue with a sheet of your carbon, or especially if you had an issue with your epoxy.

Your point? (Seriously, I have no idea where you were going with this)

I don't think they claim to have the worlds best frame... as if such a thing exists. They make - imagine this- an adequate frame for a wide variety of riders at a competitive price. That's really all that's claimed. The same can be said for the Cavalo frames and probably a lot of others.

And that's the "equivalence point" you're looking for. It performs the function that it was intended for. A bike that's adequately light weight, rides well, and is reasonably durable. The rest is simply fluff. Cool colors and fancy shapes, if your ego drives you, go for it. They don't make a bike better.

I DO know that carbon layup is not particularly difficult. Carbon fabric or roving is easy to source and is not particularly expensive. Carbon epoxies are also relatively easy to source and not particularly expensive in quantities needed to build a road bike frame.


What is somewhat humorous is that you apparently have bought into the hype that some other brand is the "best frame in the world" as you put it... without any verification of that. The reality is that you can't say your frame is better or worse than a BD frame, although you probably paid a lot more for it right? Did the extra money increase your enjoyment? I'm sure your LBS was pleased with your choices. I hope you enjoy riding it.

Rataan

Here's where I'm going with this: you want us to believe that BD is giving us a free lunch, and I'm here to say that I strongly doubt it. It's not because my Dad told me there are no free lunches, or that I'm old enough and experienced enough to have bought and sold a variety of things over the years. It's because BD is a business, which, like any other business, offers a product at a particular price point, and there is no business sense in making that product any better than it needs to be.

In the case of BD, there are some distressing reasons to suspect they don't need to be very good. They have no tradition, reputation, or legacy to uphold. What assets do they have to lose if lawsuits are brought against them? If things start going south for them from warranty claims, bad word of mouth or whatever, what happens? Do they just dry up and disappear?

Let's just say for the sake of argument that their frames don't break any more often than average, although I doubt that anyone knows for certain. So what? My brother hasn't broken his lower end $299 Trek MTB either, but that doesn't make it an enthusiast level bike. And that is the crux of the problem I have with these "bargain" bikes. People like you would have us believe that just because there is an Ultegra derailleur, you are getting an integrated Ultegra level bike, and I just haven't seen any evidence of that. What I can see is that in spite of your vague and unconvincing arguments for their manufacturing quality, the frame designs are straight out of Yesterday.

Next you are going to tell me that BD is doing us a favor by cutting out middle men. Prove it. How, pray tell, does one sell Chinese made frames with Japanese made parts in the USA factory direct? You don't. It's marketing. The very idea is a non sequitur. When I bought my Turner MTB frame, I spoke with the dealer, and they spoke with Turner. Since we don't call the Far East to inquire about BD bikes, it's obvious that BD isn't selling bikes any more direct than many others.

While we are at it, I might as well mention that you obviously haven't read my other posts. I've done the math comparing BD bikes with my own bikes. The best I can say about BD is that you get what you pay for, if you are lucky.

Jimi77

That's an interesting statement considering your whole arguement was "you get what you pay for...."

My experience was good. I got a GT Nomad for ~$270, that bike was going for ~$400 at the LBS. I could have probably talked them down to $350, so I saved $80 by going thru BD and putting the bike together my self. It was worth a few hours of my time.

I seriously doubt you're getting a $2000 bike for $1100, but that's how all sorts of stuff is marketed. What do Trek, GT, et al do - the give us an MSRP that is always inflated, so we can feel like we got a deal at the dealer. IOW Bikes Direct is far from alone, but I do think there are deals to be had there, just like there are deals on Craigslist or the LBS.

jbtute

So you have no basis for claiming that a BD frame isn't better than your bike? Got it.

Could you explain what has changed in carbon technology in the past 10 years? You have a "modern" looking frame that you have no basis for claiming is better than another design, but since the company you bought it said it was good, you bought it? Ok. If that makes you happy, I say go for it. To put down another model because it doesn't look as "modern" as yours? That's kinda silly IMO when you have no basis other than it doesn't look cool.

Next, where is it exactly that you think the components are put on the frames? In America? Guess again. Do you know how far Taiwan is from Tokyo? Google earth it. (Are you really arguing that because components come from a different factory than assembly that the assembly factory is the "bike factory"? If you had a GM shipped to you from a warehouse would you not consider that factory direct if the a/c compressor was built in Ohio? Odd argument but we'll go with it.)

How do you save money? I'm not sure I really need to spell this out, but here goes; how much do you think a brick and mortar bike store costs to run? Where do you think this money comes from? How do you think bike stores run 20-30% off sales at the end of the year and still make money? Do you think it's possible that bike shops mark up the bikes they buy and sell them to you at a profit? I suppose if someone put them in a warehouse in Texas and shipped them directly to the buyer they might be able to save some money.

Maybe not. Maybe BD is making a killing on cutting out the LBS?