Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Attn. Anyone Who Lusts After Rivendells

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Attn. Anyone Who Lusts After Rivendells

Old 11-24-04, 05:55 PM
  #1  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Attn. Anyone Who Lusts After Rivendells

I've wanted a Rivendell for years now, but there's just one little problem... There are still TONS of well made lugged frames with good components selling for 20-50 bucks! I understand and appreciate their design asthetics, and I personally enjoy riding bikes that are well made yet comfortable, without the "aerodynamic" posture, spandex and all that happy crappy. I'm a "young retrogrouch" if that's possible, but $2000 for a lugged frame with 105 level components? If you looked around, cleaned up a frame from the 70s or 80s, it would be a whole lot cheaper. Just my 2 bits. Just to make sure everyone knows where I'm coming from, though. I have nothing against Rivendell, and would like to own one someday, but for those of you who are poor, like me, you can still get a bike like theirs for very reasonable prices. They'll just say Nishiki or Panasonic on the headbadge!
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 11-24-04, 06:18 PM
  #2  
Istanbul_Tea
X-Large Member
 
Istanbul_Tea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 580

Bikes: 2004 Rivendell Atlantis, 2004 Thorn eXp, 2004 Bob Brown Cycles Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Agreed (to a degree... more on that below), but I must ask... what is the point of your post? Just seems odd... like there had been a ton of, "Damn, wish I could afford a Riv" posts lately and you posted this to somehow be the remedy or a solution.

Or, was this just a personal revelation?

Anyway, I agree that there are many used, good to great quality steel/lugged framesets around just begging for a new life. I would very much disagree that any of those is a substitute for a Riv. Rivendell's (as in the particular model not the overall company name) are custom. You talk to Grant Petersen about your needs and he takes that info and designs you a frameset. That info is sent off to Curt Goodrich in Minnesota and he builds it with Rivendell's proprietary lugs. That frameset is then sent to Joe Bell in California who paints it... and then Joe sends the frameset to Grant at Rivendell for final inspection/build and shipping to the customer. A Rivendell per se is a one off frameset, built essentially for each customer that orders one...

now if you meant Rivendell in general (as in the company Rivendell) then they do make limited production framesets-Atlantis, Quickbeam, Rambouillet, etc. Within these models you could find some close alternatives within some specific makes and models of older framesets. Not identical mind you, but close.
Istanbul_Tea is offline  
Old 11-24-04, 06:44 PM
  #3  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I really wasn't even talking about the relative merits of a custom frame at all, and the point of my post was not to offend Riv owners. If you go to their website, and read their "about us" section, Grant Peterson basically says that the no-nonsense purity of road bikes of the 70s and 80s were the inspiration for his bicycles. My "point" was that there are plenty of nice bikes from the 70s and 80s to be had for a song if you can not afford anything Riv has for sale. So to put it in the simplest terms possible, one may participate in Riv's design aesthetic without spending a ton of money. As far as having an earth shaker of a reason for posting, well, look at some of these other threads, Cochise. If you are a Riv owner, I'm happy that you have a nice bike and I'm glad you're financially stable enough to afford one. I did not intend to offend by this thread.
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 11-24-04, 08:34 PM
  #4  
Istanbul_Tea
X-Large Member
 
Istanbul_Tea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 580

Bikes: 2004 Rivendell Atlantis, 2004 Thorn eXp, 2004 Bob Brown Cycles Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was never offended. Just was wondering what the thought-process behind your post was, that's all.

As far as other threads are concerned... I understand your point-as this area is open to various & far reaching thoughts for posting material.

I was just asking, ok Hoss?
Istanbul_Tea is offline  
Old 11-24-04, 09:30 PM
  #5  
alanbikehouston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I have bought several 1980's steel road bikes "cheap", and then restored them to "like new" riding condition. I don't worry about looks - I put the money into rebuilding the wheels, new tubes and tires, new saddles, bar tape, tune-up, and replacement of brake levers and calipers (if necessary). The total cost of these projects bikes has ended up between $200 and $600. So, compared with a new Rivendell, restoring the old bikes has been a bargain. (The combined cost of ALL of my "Project Bikes" might have been enough for a basic Rivendell, though).

Yet, I am quite sure that if I won the lottery and had LOTS of money to spend, high on my list of new "toys" would be a Rivendell. It would be terrific to be able to talk with Grant Peterson, discuss which steel tubes would be the best for my weight and riding needs, maybe convince Grant to go with the slightly short top tube than he would chose, and have the bike built to my exact specs. Maybe get contrasting colors on the lugs, and some other little things. So, anyone know what the winning lottery number is going to be next week?
alanbikehouston is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 02:45 AM
  #6  
redfooj
pluralis majestatis
 
redfooj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: you rope
Posts: 4,210

Bikes: a DuhRosa

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well, go find a 56cm panasonic/nishiki/bridgestone/miyata that i can use as a rain bike and ill give you 20-50$
redfooj is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 06:56 AM
  #7  
Istanbul_Tea
X-Large Member
 
Istanbul_Tea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 580

Bikes: 2004 Rivendell Atlantis, 2004 Thorn eXp, 2004 Bob Brown Cycles Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
I have bought several 1980's steel road bikes "cheap", and then restored them to "like new" riding condition. I don't worry about looks - I put the money into rebuilding the wheels, new tubes and tires, new saddles, bar tape, tune-up, and replacement of brake levers and calipers (if necessary). The total cost of these projects bikes has ended up between $200 and $600. So, compared with a new Rivendell, restoring the old bikes has been a bargain. (The combined cost of ALL of my "Project Bikes" might have been enough for a basic Rivendell, though).

Yet, I am quite sure that if I won the lottery and had LOTS of money to spend, high on my list of new "toys" would be a Rivendell. It would be terrific to be able to talk with Grant Peterson, discuss which steel tubes would be the best for my weight and riding needs, maybe convince Grant to go with the slightly short top tube than he would chose, and have the bike built to my exact specs. Maybe get contrasting colors on the lugs, and some other little things. So, anyone know what the winning lottery number is going to be next week?
Good luck on getting Grant to do contrasting paint on lugs! Remember the saying, "You pick the color... Grant approves it!" Seriously though, every Riv owner I've spoken to is 100% happy but Grant has very firm opinions on paint and the look of the cycles leaving his shop. He's always happy to do cream highlights in lug cutouts and on the headtube though.
Istanbul_Tea is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 06:58 AM
  #8  
Istanbul_Tea
X-Large Member
 
Istanbul_Tea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 580

Bikes: 2004 Rivendell Atlantis, 2004 Thorn eXp, 2004 Bob Brown Cycles Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by redfooj
well, go find a 56cm panasonic/nishiki/bridgestone/miyata that i can use as a rain bike and ill give you 20-50$
Bingo! They're sought after frames and not exactly cheap nor easy to come by.
Istanbul_Tea is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 07:15 AM
  #9  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,254

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
I think that sometimes the whole exceeds the sum of it's parts. Ever watch a really "clicking" athletic team? They will almost always beat a team composed of individually superior players who, for whatever reason, just don't have it. If you don't believe me, ask the US Olympic basketball coach.

I think that bikes are the same way. When they're done right, every part works in concert with every other part and, if you change anything at all, you'll probably have to change everything on the bike to bring the Yin and the Yang back into balance. I've got some reasonably nice personal bikes. A couple of them have it and a couple don't. Incidentally, my most expensive bike happens to be a don't.

Now you can certainly buy an old steel frame, mess with the rear triangle and put together a bike that the left side of your brain tells you has all of the features of a modern Rivendel bike. I doubt it will compare favorably with a bicycle that starts with seat tube, top tube and head tube lengths and angles that were designed to match your style of riding. That's the real difference between a $500.00 bike and a $2,000.00 bike. A few people get it, most people don't. That's why Walmart does so well.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 07:16 AM
  #10  
shokhead
05 Roubaix Comp Double
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,665

Bikes: 2012 Trek Madone 6.2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Istanbul_Tea
Agreed (to a degree... more on that below), but I must ask... what is the point of your post? Just seems odd... like there had been a ton of, "Damn, wish I could afford a Riv" posts lately and you posted this to somehow be the remedy or a solution.

Or, was this just a personal revelation?

Anyway, I agree that there are many used, good to great quality steel/lugged framesets around just begging for a new life. I would very much disagree that any of those is a substitute for a Riv. Rivendell's (as in the particular model not the overall company name) are custom. You talk to Grant Petersen about your needs and he takes that info and designs you a frameset. That info is sent off to Curt Goodrich in Minnesota and he builds it with Rivendell's proprietary lugs. That frameset is then sent to Joe Bell in California who paints it... and then Joe sends the frameset to Grant at Rivendell for final inspection/build and shipping to the customer. A Rivendell per se is a one off frameset, built essentially for each customer that orders one...

now if you meant Rivendell in general (as in the company Rivendell) then they do make limited production framesets-Atlantis, Quickbeam, Rambouillet, etc. Within these models you could find some close alternatives within some specific makes and models of older framesets. Not identical mind you, but close.
His point to his post as others is he doesnt have any money but wants all the stuff and "cents" he doesnt have any,its marketing hype,overpriced,rip off, yada,yada,yada.
shokhead is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 08:10 AM
  #11  
Istanbul_Tea
X-Large Member
 
Istanbul_Tea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 580

Bikes: 2004 Rivendell Atlantis, 2004 Thorn eXp, 2004 Bob Brown Cycles Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I think that sometimes the whole exceeds the sum of it's parts. Ever watch a really "clicking" athletic team? They will almost always beat a team composed of individually superior players who, for whatever reason, just don't have it. If you don't believe me, ask the US Olympic basketball coach.

I think that bikes are the same way. When they're done right, every part works in concert with every other part and, if you change anything at all, you'll probably have to change everything on the bike to bring the Yin and the Yang back into balance. I've got some reasonably nice personal bikes. A couple of them have it and a couple don't. Incidentally, my most expensive bike happens to be a don't.

Now you can certainly buy an old steel frame, mess with the rear triangle and put together a bike that the left side of your brain tells you has all of the features of a modern Rivendel bike. I doubt it will compare favorably with a bicycle that starts with seat tube, top tube and head tube lengths and angles that were designed to match your style of riding. That's the real difference between a $500.00 bike and a $2,000.00 bike. A few people get it, most people don't. That's why Walmart does so well.
Great points, all.

For some bizarre reason a lot of cyclists think the Rivendell "Philosophy" (for want of a better word) is akin to, "Hey, I put a Brooks saddle on my ______(insert brand name here) it's just like a Rivendell" or finding some rusted out clap-trap of a frame and putting Ruffy Tuffy's on it.

Aspects of that are-perhaps-part of the ideal but they miss the mark. For me, if there is a Philosophy per se it's...

Practical
Long Lasting
Proven
Tasteful
Geometry that reflects "People" not "Elite Athletes"

And to those keywords materials like steel, leather, cotton, wool & duck canvas fall into place as well as the use of lugs.
Istanbul_Tea is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 08:37 AM
  #12  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by redfooj
well, go find a 56cm panasonic/nishiki/bridgestone/miyata that i can use as a rain bike and ill give you 20-50$
This town is still covered up with nice old steel frames like this. Every roadie wants to be Lance so these bikes are still relatively valueless, so I'm kind of lucky that way.
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 08:49 AM
  #13  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Again, I never said that a production frame is going to be as good as a custom frame. However, if I find an old Nishiki, give it some TLC, put a brooks saddle on it and 105 level components on it, that IS comparable to an Atlantis or a Ramboulet, only much less expensive. If you just want to throw your money down a hole because you made an emotional attatchment to a product, e-mail me and I'll give you my address, and you can send the money to me!
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 09:37 AM
  #14  
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Posts: 6,555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by krispistoferson
This town is still covered up with nice old steel frames like this. Every roadie wants to be Lance so these bikes are still relatively valueless, so I'm kind of lucky that way.
One mans garbage is anothers treasure. Unfortunately for me, the meager population of the North Country doesn't afford a lot of cast off opportunities.
dobber is offline  
Old 11-25-04, 09:44 AM
  #15  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dobber
One mans garbage is anothers treasure. Unfortunately for me, the meager population of the North Country doesn't afford a lot of cast off opportunities.
I think the fact that in the North Country, winter and rock salt will literally EAT a steel frame probably make them even more hard to find!
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 12-15-04, 08:08 AM
  #16  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update! I found some really nice canvas bags with brass fittings at the Army/Navy store. With a little work I turned them into some excellent panniers! They look so much nicer than dayglo nylon ones, in my opinion. The "workin' man's Riv" is proceeding accordingly.
__________________
Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 12-15-04, 08:38 AM
  #17  
bhchdh 
Senior Member
 
bhchdh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hampton Roads VA
Posts: 1,788

Bikes: '07 Trek 520, '09 Gary Fisher Triton, '04 Trek 8000, '85 Trek 500, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 510, '88 Trek 660, '92 Trek 930, Trek Multitrack 700

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Pictures please.
bhchdh is offline  
Old 12-15-04, 09:19 AM
  #18  
FXjohn
Senior Member
 
FXjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 12,953
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2960 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by krispistoferson
This town is still covered up with nice old steel frames like this. Every roadie wants to be Lance so these bikes are still relatively valueless, so I'm kind of lucky that way.
Let me know if you come across an older Sam Benotto, early 70's.
I love those bikes for some reason.
I gave away a Sam B to a friend, cuz the frame was a little too small (I'm only 5'8-9"ish).
I have a Lambert now for my vintage machine.
FXjohn is offline  
Old 12-15-04, 10:15 AM
  #19  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FXjohn
Let me know if you come across an older Sam Benotto, early 70's.
I love those bikes for some reason.
I gave away a Sam B to a friend, cuz the frame was a little too small (I'm only 5'8-9"ish).
I have a Lambert now for my vintage machine.
I saw the thread with the Lambert, VERY nice machine. I'm fixin' to go see THE KING of retro grouches, and I'll ask him. If he don't know, no one will.
__________________
Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 12-15-04, 12:12 PM
  #20  
seely
The Rabbi
 
seely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For about $450 total investment I have a lugged Paramount with new paint and Ultegra/Tiagra/105 9spd, so its possible to get a deal if you look around. The bike itself was only $125 complete when I got it. So I agree with the original poster on this one. I can't see paying huge money for a lugged steel frame honestly.
seely is offline  
Old 12-15-04, 12:33 PM
  #21  
KrisPistofferson
Immoderator
Thread Starter
 
KrisPistofferson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630

Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I found out the bike I do have was made in the exact same Japanese factory where Riv's new "Quickbeam" bike is made, the frame costs $1300! I WILL get a Paramount before they get too darn expensive, as a matter of fact, I've typed the word "Paramount" into E-bay's search engine so often, those letters on my keyboard are starting to fade.
__________________
Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
KrisPistofferson is offline  
Old 12-19-04, 12:47 AM
  #22  
croshaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 67

Bikes: Rivendell Romulus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I love my Rivendell Romulus. Enough said.
croshaven is offline  
Old 12-19-04, 04:12 PM
  #23  
sydney
Senior Member
 
sydney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Istanbul_Tea
Bingo! They're sought after frames and not exactly cheap nor easy to come by.
Gimmie a break. There are a dime a dozen around here at garage sales,and usually end up in an old pickup going to Mexico or the landfill.
sydney is offline  
Old 12-19-04, 04:41 PM
  #24  
Mark4
Got Lugs?
 
Mark4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sydney
Gimmie a break. There are a dime a dozen around here at garage sales,and usually end up in an old pickup going to Mexico or the landfill.
Which will only make them harder to find as time passes... Many are of high quality, and if they become scarce, they'll only become more collectible.

That said, if anyone would like to trade their new 58 cm Rivendell for my Nishiki, please let me know. Perhaps something can be arranged
Mark4 is offline  
Old 12-19-04, 08:30 PM
  #25  
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like the freedom an old bike gives you. My new bikes are not taken in the rain, snow or just left outside locked to a pole. On the other hand, my used beaters go out much more than my new bikes and it has me debating on whether to ever buy new again! I would hate to leave a Rivendell locked to a pole. I ride in all neighborhoods and a new bike brings unwanted attention but a used scrached up bike gives you freedom. That's the beauty of a used bike.
Dahon.Steve is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.