Hey there MightyLegnano!

You should be ashamed of yourself! Globs should NOT be permitted!

- Slim :lol:

What's the name of that thing the police uses on protesters head then :p
Baton maybe?

The problem with the bikepaths are the same reason I couldn't get the animal control to do something with all the jerks with no leash or off leash dogs. The paths go through to many different districts. There isn't a all in one dog catcher and I guess the police would go down there for a mile before they are not in their city any longer. That said, I've never send cops on bikes there, ever.

Those of us that may use the SART can assure you we appreciate the heads up. The last time I was down there I noticed many homeless camps under the street overpasses. Because of that I would caution riding the SART close to dark anyway. But if I were in the area and had the same work hours as your husband I would have been happy to join him on his rides. But I would also encourage an alternate route that late in the afternoon. There are parts of the SGRT I might consider a different route on even during the day.

For any Pennsylvania riders looking at this thread.
You might want to find a copy of PA Senate Bill No 273 that is now law and also known as the Castle Doctrine.

Sections dealing with car jacking of occupied vehicles.

The definition of a vehicle in this law is:
A conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property. That would include a bicycle if you are sitting on it, straddling the top tube or simply holding the handlebars (occupied vehicle). Under PA law the bicycle on a public street, road, or recreation trail is viewed as being the same as a motorized vehicle.

Could you give a brief explanation of what the Castle doctrine is? A lot of folks may not know anything about it. I have a very good idea, but I live in Forida which has a Castle doctrine also. Ours may be dfferent than yours.
Basically, you have the right to protect yourself with deadly force under certain circumstances.

I've had worse attacks while cycling. I was only outnumbered 7 to 1, by two different gangs at once. The police station was two blocks away, but they refused to get involved.

I can only hope that those three stopped after Larry, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't stay there until they had gotten a bicycle.

The best therapy I could suggest is for Larry to round up some good friends and perhaps people who live in the area and flush out these guys. A strong offence is the best defense. But take time to plan and take care, just going in for a confrontation would be the stupid way. Just making them uncomfortable may be enough. Go cut down the bushes they hid behind. You'll figure out something.

Under the previous PA castle doctrine you had no duty to retreat in your own house if the intruder engaged in a felony break and enter. You could use deadly force if you were in fear of "grievous bodily harm or death". Otherwise you were expected to leave the house and call the police. If confronted outside of your house you were required to back away and do everything possible to escape before resorting to the use of deadly force. You could not resort to deadly force if you were the victim of a car jacking. You were expected to bail out, beat feet and then call the police.

The new PA castle doctrine is still not as liberal as is seen in states such as Texas.
Also. In the new PA castle doctrine law the wording has been changed from grievous bodily harm to serious bodily harm.
Now if you are outside of your home but still on your property there are circumstances which allow you to resort to the use of deadly force.

My interest in this stems from an incident I witnessed 10 years ago. A 70 year old man was attacked on the grade school sidewalk about a block away. Everyday he would do 10 laps around the school to keep fit. One evening he was jumped by three youths. They did not rob him as he had nothing of value on him. They concentrated their blows to his head. I heard the yelling so I strapped on the "hardware" and headed up there. The man was sitting on the pavement trembling violently. blood streaming down his face. When the police asked him questions he could not give his name, home address or what had happened to him. He never came home. Went from the hospital into a nursing home. Suffering from dementia brought on by the beating to the head. At that age you are more easily injured with blows to the head and there is little chance of any recovery. I asked myself if that would be me at that age. I am now at that age. I am starting to see the early signs of Alzheimer's after 35 years of high level exposure to TCE and PCE.

I can't give you a link to the new PA law but you might want to try Google with PA Senate Bill No 273. Along with that I am looking at a copy of PA Title 18. Crimes and Offenses. Chapter 5, General Principles Of Justification. If you get into a position where you must resort to deadly force one slip can get you in jail or at the very least a hefty legal bill to get out of a charge. And here in this county our new DA is starting to set a pattern of taking cases into court far short of enough evidence to get a conviction. The idea being that if they can't stick you in jail they will break you financially.

don't turn this into a politcal bigotry discussion. Gangbangers is not synonymous minority. It's as much my country as it is yours.

-A hispanic minority member on a bike

I used to have pepper spray for things like this. I lost it, though. Maybe I should replace it. Also, I never ride on MUPs after dark. That's where all the transients live and they're more likely to be inebriated after dark. Then again, my sister's bike was jacked on a MUP in the afternoon. Luckily, she wasn't on it. She let a friend borrow it to meet the track team up ahead on the path. They were drunk teenage gangsters.

The trails we ride sometimes have "transients" around the trail. So far no problems with any of them. Some homeless had a camp along our local trail and several were actually nice. Talked to them when I was doing brush cutting along the trail. Next trip over I gave them a few microbrews and snacks. Two were old Nam vets that just could not fit back into society as we know it. not druggies. Just liked their beer and a free life.

I use pepper spray as my first line of defense. Can't go winging .380 Hydra Shoks around a trail where there might be innocent people not in direct sight.
Keep in mind there are two kinds of pepper spray dispensers. One will throw a stream. The other simply creates a fog only a few feet in front of you.

I bought a sleeve that goes around the top tube and has snaps on it. Then an elastic sleeve with snaps goes around the pepper spray container. I clip a 3 oz. stream sprayer on that. In one of my shirt pockets I will carry a 2 oz fog sprayer.

You don't want to use the fog type in any sort of wind. Position relative to the attacker and the wind is critical. The fog type work on calm days. The stream sprayers I buy at a police supply store will project a thin stream out about 20 to 25 feet with a minimum of droplets outside the stream. Not nearly as sensitive to wind.

I have used the fog type once when a group of youths followed my wife and I. Hanging just off our back wheels making nasty threatening comments. Used the fog type as if I were crop dusting. As soon as they got a taste of the pepper spray in the air behind me they decided that trying to intimidate the old folks was not the best idea nor the fun for their day.

The legal implications of hosing somebody with pepper spray are far different than hauling out the pistol. They only have to voice threats to make the pepper spray perfectly legal.

Don't belive he said anything about color but just take it back from gangbangers.

Not to go to far off topic.......
Pit Bulls have no place among peaceful humans. These dogs are bred to fight and kill.

Lock & load..........

Somewhat like my thought: I was thinking one of the LAPD, Officers, even off duty,
might be a good person to seek as a riding partner.
Call them Up.

That is true up to a point. But even if a particular trail does go through several cities (and/or counties) there is always the county sheriffs office as well as the state police.

And even if you are no longer in "your" city using your cell phone to call 911 to request police or medical assistance will route you to the correct office.

Then it's just a simple matter of describing what your needs are.

Uh, I could be mistaken, but doesn't that raise to the level of malicious prosecution? Wouldn't someone who truly felt that their life/safety was in danger and used deadly force to protect themselves only to find themselves being prosecuted by the DA's office have excellent grounds to file a lawsuit against the city/county or state?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SurlyLaika (Post 13831923)

I used to have pepper spray for things like this.

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Uh, pepper spray has a limited effectiveness. As it's just as likely to blow back into your own face as it is to "disable" your attacker. Plus in all likelihood you're only going to be able to use it against one attacker at a time.

Even the more potent bear spray has the same limitations.

The best bet, I'm thinking is as others have said safety in numbers. Ride with as many cyclists/friends as you can. Also report any attacks to law enforcement.

As far as I can find out it would be nearly impossible to push a malicious prosecution case against a DA in the state of PA.
I think that they enjoy a form of sovereign immunity. Our DA's are elected. Running for 4 year terms.

I watched our recently elected DA charge a neighbor youth with second degree murder. Everything was on a video camera in the neighborhood. He was nothing more than an unwitting accomplice in the incident. He had no previous knowledge regarding what was about to happen and after the other thug fired the shots he quickly drove away. The DA could not enter any evidence indicating a prior conspiracy or knowledge regarding what went down. when the shots were fired he started to drive away. The shooter jumped in his car. The neighbor simply dropped him off a few blocks away. To make the charge stick in court the DA, under PA law, had to prove a preconceived plan of escape. Trouble is there was no such plan. All parties to this action told the law exactly what went down. The nearby school's high-res security camera recorded it all, video and sound. It cost the kid's parents about 50 grand in legal fees. When the kid finally went to trial the trial judge hauled the lawyers and the DA back into his chambers and ripped the DA a new hide. The judge could be heard in the courtroom yelling at the DA that he should have never brought this case to trial as he had not one bit of evidence to back the charge. The kid spent a bunch of time in jail before his family could raise the bail. The family is Mexican. Been up here for a number of years. Decent honest hard working people I am proud to call friends. I helped the one daughter through her studies to become a citizen. Their one son just got mixed up with some bad actors.
I have seen other cases where they knew they could not get a conviction but felt that costing you a pile of money in lawyers was a just form of punishment.

Really?

I guess but when I was talking to a sheriff that was down there asking him about getting some help from the moron off leash/no leash dog walkers that is what he told me as the reason nothing gets done. He said by the time you call they are in another city.{at least as far as the dogs go** I've seen the cops in the mornings when I ride go down to a place where they know for sure where a few people are sleeping/staying and get rid of them, then a cleaning crew comes in and cleans up the junk. Low priority on the path until a student{I see more and more riding to school in the mornings**has something bad happen. Even a few years ago when they found a body by the horse stables by cerritos mall I never saw police around the path at all. You know how it works. Not until it is REALLY bad, then maybe.

SART's a long way from any LAPD jurisdiction.

Depends entirely upon the humans in their pack.

I think he meant to take the country back from criminals in general. Restrictive gun laws have made it difficult for law abiding citizens to defend themselves, and many times the criminals have the upper hand.

That doesn't mean that they're not above the law, no matter how much they might think that they are.

In some cases I can see where that might be the right way to go.

Is there any way that you all can hold a recall election and vote him out of office?