I buy as little as possible from WM...I have taken apart things like irons and toasters to compare them. WM will sell an item that is all but a direct copy of an item selling for twice as much at a different store. There is no comparison in the quality. I blame it in a large part on the manufacturers for chasing profits above all else, and caving in to WM. Unfortunately WM is the largest retailer in the world and so many manufacturers are running on such a thin profit margin they can't afford to say no when WM demands a certain price point. Would I not buy a Rowenta iron from another source just because WM sells them? Probably not, but you can bet I am going to research the crap out of it and determine if the iron from another store is a overpriced WM one or a totally different model. I used to be brand loyal on many items, however that has changed a lot over the past decade as household brand names have been bought and sold and become names only, I look less at the name and more at the individual product as well as the history of the company, primarily where do they make it, and do they really make it.

Aaron :)

Oddly, I tend to look down my nose and walmart, but will buy stuff from amazon.

Would you look down your nose at a pair of Levi jeans sold at Walmart?

What about an iPhone?

What about a baseball bat, catcher's mitt, or babseball?

You see! There's just got to be a limit to your distrust....

PS.

Would you prefer to buy a TV from Amazon, instead of one from Walmart?

Does Walmart sell Levi's? I don't think so. I actually only tend to buy Levi's for jeans as I hate clothes shopping and I know the size and style number that works in them when buying jeans. iPhone, no, but I did buy my tracfone there. I only have a cell phone for emergencies and that's all I need. I'm not sure buying name brand electronics from them would be different from buying it online as there's no service, but for something like a tv, I'd probably go to an actual store. Don't know that I've ever bought a TV though. Sports gear, no, I'd buy that from a sporting goods store. Sporting goods, I tend to want quality that'll last. I've bought cheap stuff (cheap volleyballs - especially indoor balls - are something absolutely no one should use and turn people off from the sport - kind of like cheap bikes) and they're not worth it. Moved on to buying better stuff and it's definitely worth the extra expense.

If I were a big wig at MalWart I'd contract Waterford (or some other nice frame builder) to make a one per store special and sell it at the cheap bike prices as an unpublicized loss leader. As soon as the bike got noticed it would be cool to watch.

Every now and again WM seems to get a decent bike in their line up. However it will only be available for a short time, or the quality of components will drop very quickly as they try to meet the price point. I have seen it happen with multiple bikes over the years. For a about 9 months back in 2007 WM was selling a bike with a 3 speed hub for ~$125. It was a reasonable deal, it disappeared about 7 months later never to be seen again. The Mongoose Paver was another such bike, not a bad bike for the price, but has disappeared after a year or so.

Aaron :)

Over the years Dorel Industries has bought out other companies like Pacific Cycle, Roadmaster, Brunswick and Cannondale, so currently all GT, Schwinn, Mongoose, Iron Horse and Cannondale brands come from the same source regardless of who ends up carrying them.

Dorel Industries operates in over 14 countries around the world and even before buying out Cannondale in 2007, their sales represented over 1/3 of all bicycles sold in the USA.


Guess who their biggest customer has continued to be? Walmart.


So if Dorel has been growing while more exclusive bike brands have been failing, and Walmart has been expanding while other big box stores have been closing, maybe its because they've done their homework and are providing products that people will actually BUY rather than just talk about or wish they could afford.


All this talk about lack of quality is nice, but the same people that will balk at buying $50 for a tire will usually also balk at spending $2,000 for a bike. People might not want to believe it, but companies like Walmart and McDonalds hire some of the best business analysts and process engineers they can get their hands on. And the bottom line showing a continued profit is proof of that.


Soap is a lot like that too - you can pick the brand you want but most of them are all made by the same company anyway. You basicly get what you pay for and there needs to be a choice for all those people who want to pay as little as possible. I guess there's just a lot more of those people than most people would like to believe, but it would be pretty narrow minded to think that a profit can't be made catering to them.

How do you say...?

C'est la pure verite, mon ami! :thumb:

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.__John Ruskin

Too many people purchase on price alone, WM caters to that and at great profit.

Aaron :)

Aaron, after working as a senior business analyst for many years, I can state quite categorically that without a brand name and a price tag to use as references, 99% of the North American population wouldn't have a clue what anything was worth at all.

A minority insist on buying the most expensive items simply because they can. Its a status thing and you'd be insulting them by offering them a better product at a cheaper price. In some cases that even includes things like private aircraft.

The majority of the population buys whatever offers the most 'features' for the lowest cash outlay - even if they'll never use most of those 'features'.
In both cases the deciding factor isn't based on actual quality - its based on a perception of quality, and except for the extremely wealthy, 'is it on sale'? and 'can I afford it' also come into play.

Me, I'm definitely a 1%er. Problem is - just about everything I've ever bought has been discontinued because it was too expensive for the average consumer, and not exclusive for the collector. On the other hand - most of it will probably outlast my interest in it, so maybe it was overdesigned.

Burton has a good handle on all this I think; interesting thread et.al. Gets into philosophical things like subjective vs objective reality, and that the only reality any of us will ever know is the 'subjective one' ie, PERCEPTION. But I won't go there. I recently went through much soul searching to make a BikesDirect Titanium bike purchase, mainly because I was resistant to a 'brand name' that had no 'social punch' to it [so to say]. But as I perused the specifics of the components and materials, my RATIONAL self could not turn away from what had to be far greater value [I could never afford Titanium with higher brand bikes]. Did I do good...or not? Hard to say. I realized the 'resell' value is greatly reduced simply by that brand name. But then, I don't really plan on selling it. But here's the catch too...I find I would never ride the thing at established events either, for fear of a certain 'social stigma' cast upon it ["oh, looky there, another BikesDirect fool"...blah blah, that kind of thing].

There there is a lot of psychology going on in all this. I remember as a teenybop, I had a summer job at a Kentucky factory that made underwear. Under some production runs, it seems I remember the 'higher priced' top brand stuff was exactly the same as the 'discounted' supposed 'lower quality' stuff. All that was different was the label that was attached at the back. I remember this because people would joke about it during breaks and lunch. Shows to go ya'...markets can be more about 'perception' than anything else.

The titanium bike rides great BTW. No way to fake the components, say what...but I'd change the frame decals if I could, ha [even though it is a quite well made Tiwanese frame...which is what most of them are these days]. Think of it...a simple decal could DOUBLE or TRIPLE that resell price. That what BRAND is all about...

There ya go..thread over.

I guess I fall in the 1% range too. I typically don't/won't buy something with a bunch of features that I see no use for, I am considered a curmudgeon at work because I still have my Blackberry 7200... I do have a much newer version but for the basics it is all I ever need. BTW the same applies to my bicycles too, my daily rider for years was a 1971 Raleigh Sports Standard 3 speed.

Aaron :)

I guess I am the odd one... I buy something as an investment... it's cost is always a factor ... I want something that is.. middle of the road but something I can upgrade latter on... I want to know I have something durable though... because to me buying the cheapest out there is setting yourself up to spend a lot more latter on in repairs... or buy a whole new bike all together.. and that's not economical

google the article where the ceo of snapper lawnmowers refused to sell to walmart and read why he did it.

I think his views applies to bikes as well.