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Why bike theft is so hard to stop

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Why bike theft is so hard to stop

Old 09-14-12, 06:25 PM
  #26  
northernlights
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Originally Posted by mrtidy View Post
Bunch of extremists on this thread. Bike theft does not come close to deserving the death penalty. Three years in jail sounds pretty extreme too.
Stocks seem reasonable though.

if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

the stocks are useless. they wont deter anyone from stealing, or stealing again. we aren't in the middle ages anymore.
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Old 09-14-12, 06:40 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by GrandaddyBiker View Post
It would not burden our already overcrowded jails. It would be a big humiliation and very uncomfortable even for a few hours.
bike thieves are hard enough to catch as it is. I doubt they would put too much of a burden on the jails. there are many more bike thieves then could ever be caught. but knowing they could go to prison for a long time and ruining their lives will make many of them think twice.
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Old 09-14-12, 06:45 PM
  #28  
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Sadly, there is a percentage of the population that would willingly buy an item they knew was stolen. Maybe, along the lines of Carfax, bicycle stores could have a main registry to record all sales. It won't help regarding the many existing bikes, but at least it would be a start to maybe limit sales of stolen bikes in the future.
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Old 09-14-12, 06:59 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GrandaddyBiker View Post
I am amazed that you are not embarrassed to make a statement like that on a forum where the whole world can read it.

So to you a bike thief deserves the same punishment as a murder. I don’t think any country in this world do that, not even China or any of the countries that live under Sharia Law.
Why would such a statement embarras me in public when I have conveyed the same sentiment to my children? The world would be a better place if a few more parents lined up to deal the punishment to their miscreant offspring rather than crying "Johnny's such a good boy, he couldn't possibly have done such a thing..."

And I don't think just bike thieves deserve such punishment, I think any crime that harms another human being deserves such.
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Old 09-14-12, 07:02 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mrtidy View Post
Bunch of extremists on this thread. Bike theft does not come close to deserving the death penalty. Three years in jail sounds pretty extreme too.
Stocks seem reasonable though.
I am guessing that you have never been (or known someone close to you) the victim of a crime that caused you personal harm?

And stocks were only a punishment when the criminal still had enough human decency to feel the humiliation they entailed. In this day and age, they would be seen as badges of honor for the refuse that perform such crimes.
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Old 09-14-12, 07:24 PM
  #31  
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There's always branding. Go the rest of your life with "thief" branded on your forehead.
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Old 09-14-12, 07:57 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
I am guessing that you have never been (or known someone close to you) the victim of a crime that caused you personal harm?

And stocks were only a punishment when the criminal still had enough human decency to feel the humiliation they entailed. In this day and age, they would be seen as badges of honor for the refuse that perform such crimes.
wrong. I had a guitar stolen from my car. It did not cause me personal harm (although, a stolen bike also doesn't cause personal harm). If I caught the person who stole my guitar I would not expect ( or even want) him (or her) to be shot or even spend three years in jail.
thats just insane.
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Old 09-14-12, 08:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mrtidy View Post
wrong. I had a guitar stolen from my car. It did not cause me personal harm (although, a stolen bike also doesn't cause personal harm). If I caught the person who stole my guitar I would not expect ( or even want) him (or her) to be shot or even spend three years in jail.
thats just insane.
Would you consider slavery as causing harm to the slave? Most folks do. Does it still cause harm if one only enforces the slavery for a few years? A few months? A few days? A few hours? In short how short a period of time can one make another a slave without causing harm? I believe most would agree that no period of time would be without harm. When someone steals property from another, they have in effect stolen the persons labor that earned the money to purchase that property--in essense made them a slave-albeit for a short period of time.

That you felt the guitar's theft did not cause you harm, simply means you don't place much value in your labor or the product of that labor.
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Old 09-14-12, 09:13 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by northernlights View Post
September 2012

Many readers don't need statistics to know that bike theft is a big problem in cities, but the numbers do testify to the anecdotes. Streetsblog recently reported that bike theft is up 25 percent in New York. Transportation Alternatives has estimated that upwards of a million bikes get lifted annually (most aren't reported). The F.B.I. values stolen bicycles and their parts at $350 million a year. That's a lot of handlebar bells...(continued)

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...ard-stop/3274/
Why is it so hard to stop bike theft?

Pretty simple. The police don't care and power tools are cheap.

Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 09-14-12 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 09-14-12, 09:42 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Koobazaur View Post
The problem is, 99% of bike thieves sell the bikes on pages like craiglist, and 99% of their audience is usually either uneducated about biking / really poor / fully aware the "great deal" is a stolen bike. So at no point in said transaction process would a receipt of any form of paper verification even enter the discussion.
There must not be any stolen bikes on my local craigslist because I have not seen any “great deals” on there in a long time (I check every day). In fact there was a folding Schwinn on there last week for $300.00. That Schwinn only cost $199 retail when it was new and you could it from Amazon for $169. That is the only one I have seen where the person wanted more for it that it cost new. However, a lot of people want almost new prices and I will not pay more than half of the new price for a used bike. I do see the word “Vintage” used a lot, but what that mean is, I have an old piece of junk that I think is valuable just because it’s old.

So the stolen bikes around where I live are getting sold somewhere besides craigslist.
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Old 09-15-12, 01:33 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
Would you consider slavery as causing harm to the slave? Most folks do. Does it still cause harm if one only enforces the slavery for a few years? A few months? A few days? A few hours? In short how short a period of time can one make another a slave without causing harm? I believe most would agree that no period of time would be without harm. When someone steals property from another, they have in effect stolen the persons labor that earned the money to purchase that property--in essense made them a slave-albeit for a short period of time.

That you felt the guitar's theft did not cause you harm, simply means you don't place much value in your labor or the product of that labor.
Just like i said... extremist.
Sooooo, As you implied earlier, if your son stole some of your labor, however small ( theft is theft), you would kill him?
What if someone, through negligence, damages your bike? Kill them too?
Extremist...

Last edited by mrtidy; 09-15-12 at 01:45 AM. Reason: make mo betta
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Old 09-15-12, 06:14 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mrtidy View Post
Just like i said... extremist.
Sooooo, As you implied earlier, if your son stole some of your labor, however small ( theft is theft), you would kill him?
What if someone, through negligence, damages your bike? Kill them too?
Extremist...
You have (intentionally?) mistated my statements.

1) The laws response for theft should be the death penalty. Not an individuals illegal response to theft...
2) Negligence is not theft, it is by definition not intentional. Therefore the appropriate response to such damage would be a civil suite if the perpetrator of the damage was not reasonable enough to assume responsibility for the damages.

Last edited by myrridin; 09-15-12 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 09-15-12, 06:16 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by GrandaddyBiker View Post
There must not be any stolen bikes on my local craigslist because I have not seen any “great deals” on there in a long time (I check every day). In fact there was a folding Schwinn on there last week for $300.00. That Schwinn only cost $199 retail when it was new and you could it from Amazon for $169. That is the only one I have seen where the person wanted more for it that it cost new. However, a lot of people want almost new prices and I will not pay more than half of the new price for a used bike. I do see the word “Vintage” used a lot, but what that mean is, I have an old piece of junk that I think is valuable just because it’s old.

So the stolen bikes around where I live are getting sold somewhere besides craigslist.
According to a recent article in Bicycle Time Magazine, most such thieves are not regularly transporting their stolen bikes to a bigger market such as LA and selling them. And they will price them at the going rate they see on craigslist... So price isn't nescessarily an indicator, but a seller of a lot of bikes is.
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Old 09-15-12, 06:49 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
You have (intentionally?) mistated my statements.

1) The laws response for theft should be the death penalty. Not an individuals illegal response to theft...
2) Negligence is not theft, it is by definition not intentional. Therefore the appropriate response to such damage would be a civil suite if the perpetrator of the damage was not reasonable enough to assume responsibility for the damages.
sorry my fault... if your son stole some of your labor, however small, (theft is theft), the laws response should be death, of which you would be happy to participate in if allowed.
is that right?
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Old 09-15-12, 07:18 AM
  #40  
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I wouldn't enjoy living in a big city, for a number of reasons--but if I had to, I would only have folding bikes, and they would go with me everywhere. They wouldn't be left locked up outside.
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Old 09-15-12, 09:29 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mrtidy View Post
sorry my fault... if your son stole some of your labor, however small, (theft is theft), the laws response should be death, of which you would be happy to participate in if allowed.
is that right?

With the key word there being stole, and when including all that the law would entail (such as his being able to be tried as an adult) then most certainly yes. And I will further add that my children are aware of my beliefs, and since they were raised with the same values, adhere to them. So the risk of that being needed is quite small. Indeed for any well raised child it would be.

You see a civilized and responsible person who has some need for something that belongs to another human being, asks politely for it. And that other human being has the right and ability to provide it as a gift or a favor (which implies future repayment of some type--hence an exchange of value)... Or they can decline, which means that the person who wanted the item must do without until they can afford it on their own.
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Old 09-15-12, 10:30 AM
  #42  
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Well then we must agree to disagree. Theft is wrong and should be punished. Death seems way too extreme for me.
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Old 09-15-12, 01:26 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
The problem isn't bike theft, but simply theft. A small percentage of any population feels they have a right to take property from others... Perhaps the solution is a self selecting eugenics program. You steal, you get caught, you die...
And if it turns out later that the person was actually innocent, how would you rectify the situation? Kill everyone who served on the jury, plus the attorneys, the judge and the executioner? I mean hey, they took a human life, which is worth even more than most bicycles.
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Old 09-15-12, 01:36 PM
  #44  
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Bikes get stolen because the bikes are left unattended.
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Old 09-15-12, 01:43 PM
  #45  
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On the original topic (why bike theft is hard to stop), I think we all recognize the main attractions. They're not required to be licensed, unlike a car. They serve as transportation, possibly as a status symbol, or can be stripped, fenced, or even recycled into scrap metal, with no strings attached. They're easily concealed, you can't just drive around the neighborhood looking for it to be parked in a driveway. Their value is generally not high enough to make them a priority to an embattled property-crimes unit.

On the practical plane, educating people on how to effectively lock their bikes, and what's an appropriate strength of lock for the scenario, would displace some of the thieves towards other targets, maybe resulting in e.g. increased car prowling or theft of tools from garages. I wince every time I see someone picking out a cable lock for their $400-$500 bike, or the bikes locked by just their front wheel.

An example of an educational approach: at one local university, I saw the bike racks had laminated signs instructing people to get a U-lock and use it to lock the frame and a wheel. That's a step in the right direction.
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Old 09-15-12, 02:46 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
And if it turns out later that the person was actually innocent, how would you rectify the situation? Kill everyone who served on the jury, plus the attorneys, the judge and the executioner? I mean hey, they took a human life, which is worth even more than most bicycles.
Well one way would be fairly easy to implement and would satisfy the softer hearts among you'll.

After first conviction, the death penalty is rendered, but held in stasis, along with some additional suitable punishment (say restitution). On the event of a second conviction for any felony, the first verdict gets executed immediately. That will allow the criminals to pursue all of the appeals they give themselves time for...

Oh, If such a practise were to ever happen I would also advocate stripping any prosecutor, judge, or other officer of the court (including police) of their limited liability protections if it is shown that they failed to administer justice in a legal manner. For instance manufacturing evidence or failure to provide evidence to defense. The punishment would be two fold, the forfiture of all assets to the estate of the wrongly convicted, and immediate execution...


You see I really like executions, they have the wonderful effect of decreasing surplus population and preventing all of the future crimes the criminal WILL DO...
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Old 09-15-12, 06:13 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by mrtidy View Post
If I caught the person who stole my guitar I would not expect ( or even want) him (or her) to be shot or even spend three years in jail.
thats just insane.
depends on the value of the guitar. did they steal a cheap $100 guitar from you?

what if you had a $500 guitar stolen from you or a $2000 guitar? you think the thief should be let off with a just a warning or a slap on the wrist? you think that will teach him not to do it again? that kind weak do nothing mentality only encourages them to do it again and they most certainly WILL.

when a thief is caught for the first time, it is likely he has stolen many times before but has been getting away with it until now. so one to three years in prison, or more for multiple offenses, would not be unreasonable. regardless there must be real consequences for criminal behavior because if not they will keep doing it. if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime!

Last edited by northernlights; 09-15-12 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 09-16-12, 12:12 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
Well one way would be fairly easy to implement and would satisfy the softer hearts among you'll.

After first conviction, the death penalty is rendered, but held in stasis, along with some additional suitable punishment (say restitution). On the event of a second conviction for any felony, the first verdict gets executed immediately. That will allow the criminals to pursue all of the appeals they give themselves time for...

Oh, If such a practise were to ever happen I would also advocate stripping any prosecutor, judge, or other officer of the court (including police) of their limited liability protections if it is shown that they failed to administer justice in a legal manner. For instance manufacturing evidence or failure to provide evidence to defense. The punishment would be two fold, the forfiture of all assets to the estate of the wrongly convicted, and immediate execution...


You see I really like executions, they have the wonderful effect of decreasing surplus population and preventing all of the future crimes the criminal WILL DO...

As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.
--Christopher Dawson
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Old 09-16-12, 04:11 PM
  #49  
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Why bike theft is so hard to stop.

Not in every case, but mostly because the owners allow them to be stolen, I've never had anything stolen in my life because I do my up-most to not let some scum-bag have the opportunity to do so, sometimes it's been really difficult & inconvenient to go the extra mile to make something impossible to steal, but I do it.

Before anyone comments about something they had stolen, I did say "not every case" I'm well aware that if someone wants it bad enough....................

The fact that other people are not as vigilant as me works to my advantage, thieves take the easiest target & that isn't me.
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Old 09-16-12, 06:33 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by northernlights View Post
And locks are useless against any thief armed with a $30 bolt cutter that can be bought in any hardware store. There's no chain or U-lock big enough or strong enough that can stand up to a cheap $30 bolt cutter. it takes mere seconds to cut through them.
I saw a new cable lock at the bike shop, I forget what the brand was, but it was fairly lightweight for it's size, (not much heavier than the standard number locks I have on my bikes), but the cable was so thick, it wouldn't fit in the biggest bolt cutter in my toolbox, which is the biggest I could get at Sears.

Now, it would certainly break quite easily IF it could be gotten into the bolt cutter, but there was no way to get it in there. Nibbling would be time consuming, if it was even possible.
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