jade408

I've got a public c7i and it is rated at about 28 with the igh, fenders and chain case. If I recall the rack added a pound. Now I've got a front rack, rear rack and a basket. So I imagine I am 35ish pounds.

jade408

I've got this and it makes navigating the stairs pretty easy. I have a step through frame too!
Bicycle Frame Handle - The Little Lifter | Leather handlebar tape & bicycle accessories | Walnut Studiolo

dynaryder

That is so not how you do that. NON-DRIVE SIDE

Fastfingaz

Very Good!!!!! I'll buy those....................

CompleteStreets

Well, I have to disagree with the premise that bike manufacturers are building what customers want. It often takes several years for manufacturers to realize that they're not offering the full packages that customers desire. In the mid-1900s cars often did not come with seat belts or side view mirrors. I have a friend who said he remembers his father getting ridiculed at a car dealership for insisting that the dealership add seat belts to his car in the 1940s. Earlier in the 1900s cars often came without heaters! That's right. Customers often jury-rigged their own car heaters. Looking back, it seems silly that car manufacturers would make all of these things add ons rather than standard equipment.

Now back to bicycles … If you watch people commuting to work by bike, you'll notice that many of them share certain things in common:

Fenders
Rear and/or front racks
pant legs rolled up or strapped
Blinky lights that don't give users much choice but to remove them each time they park their bikes (to avoid theft)
Easily removable wheels and seats (another theft issue; one that doesn't exist in Europe btw).

On several occasions while shopping at bike shops and bike co-ops I've overheard people commenting how much they like a certain bike that's standing off to the side. They ask how much, only to find that the bike is a bike that a customer or shop employee jury-rigged with useful components. When they ask if the shop sells something similar, the answer is almost always, "No."

If so many customers are clearly demanding things like fenders and racks, then the bike industry now stands where the car industry stood 60 years ago. Customers have to painstakingly figure out which racks and fenders will fit on their bikes (if their bikes were even built to receive something like fenders).

IMO bicycle manufacturers and bike shops are still focused on accommodating the recreational riders who are willing to spend thousands, and ride 10,000+ miles per year, on super lightweight racing bikes. They have not even begun to comprehend how many people are using bicycles for transportation, particularly in urban areas.

If the bike industry was in tune with the law of supply and demand, you'd see a lot more bike shops selling bikes that come with fenders, racks, chain guards, kickstands, dynamo lights … the list goes on.

Whenever I talk to friends who are looking to start biking to work, etc, the conversation goes something like this: "Is there any way I can avoid having to roll up my pant leg? ... How am I supposed to keep my wheels and seat from getting stolen? I don't want to have to carry around all these locks. … Why doesn't the bike just come with fenders? … If I add a basket, won't it get in the way of my headlight?"

Bandera

Ask another shop.
Any competent specialty retailer will fix you right up w/ a custom build to meet your requirements just as they would for a nice tandem, BMX or Down-Hill racer.

It's not as if fenders, racks and an IGH are unknown taboos of some sort and commuters are a separate species never serviced in retail.
Quite the contrary, a build with a plethora of accessories is profitable if it's a commuter, a Randonneur or a recumbent.

Find another LBS and ask what machines the staff commuted to work on.

-Bandera

CompleteStreets

My point is that one shouldn't have to request a custom build to have a functional machine, just as someone shouldn't have to custom build a car to have conveniences like seat belts, heaters, radios, side view mirrors, etc.

Let me tell you about MY experience with several bike shops across multiple states in the US. Many of these shops were well-rated on yelp.com.

1) Me: "I want to make sure my seat doesn't get stolen, but it came with a quick-release. Can you replace it with some sort of bolt?"
Shop owner: Looks over the quick-release mechanism … "Your bike has a strange quick release with a curved face; I'm not willing to add a bolt because it wouldn't be safe." … Another day, when the shop owner wasn't around, I told one of the mechanics about my dilemma. Within two minutes he added a bolt with curved washers that fit almost perfectly. Never had any safety issues.

2) Me: "I want to add fenders and a rack to my bike."
Shop mechanic: "Hmmm, it looks like your bike only has one eyelet in the rear, not two. We don't have the right type of fenders for you. They're not common." … I end up doing a ton of research online, consult a friend and eventually figure out that I need to get a smaller diameter tire to get enough clearance for fenders, and that there are fenders available, but there's a good chance that I'll have issues with finding a compatible rack that will have enough clearance between the fenders and the rack and avoid "heel strike" of panniers. After a couple months I get the right tires and fenders. Another year later I stumble upon a rack that actually fits over the fenders at a bike co-op. No fewer than four bike shops told me that they couldn't help me when I asked for a compatible rack.

3) Me: "Do you sell any blinky lights that I can permanently mount to the bike? I often don't carry a bag with me, so I don't want to have to stuff my blinkies in my pockets when I lock up."
Bike shop: "Sorry, we only have removable blinkies. We could special order a dynamo set, but that would cost $150."
Me: I leave, do research online. Decide to jury-rig my own AAA blinkies so they are permanently mounted. For the rear I put the red blinky wedged under my rear reflector, then add a metal bracket on the sides of the blinky so that no one can easily steal it. I still have access to the batteries. Works fine. For front light I gorilla glue the quick release mechanism of the headlight. Never have any issues with the light being stolen.

4) Me: "I'd like to add a chain guard to my [derailleur] bike so I don't have to roll up or strap my pant leg."
Bike shop employee: "What's a chain guard." [I'm not making this up].
After visiting half a dozen bike shops, I find two that sell a chain guard meant to go over derailleur gears, but they explain that it might not fit because there's a lot of variation in the shape of derailleur bikes. They're not willing to do the labor only to find out if it fits without me paying a nice chunk of change.
Me: I do a ton of research online, become very frustrated. A year later I have a family member build me a steel chain guard that works like a charm.

My points are these: Many people already have a bicycle that they like and which works fine. They don't want to have to buy a brand new, expensive, custom build bike just so that it is functional. Bikes - from road bikes, to mountain bikes, to hybrids - have WAY too much variation across the industry. This makes things very difficult for the end user when they try to add components. Therefore, more companies should offer bikes that come fully equipped, the way cars do. Each year, more and more people are using bicycles as transportation utilitarian vehicles. Instead of assuming that most customers walking in the door only care about recreational performance, bike manufacturers should design ALL bikes (outside of the super expensive performance specific bikes) to come stock with "add-ons" or at a minimum, make the bikes compatible to receive add-ons.

Clyde1820

Strongly agree with this.

It's like with IGH, where there's no reason any wheelbuilder cannot use one for a new wheel. Or disk brakes, or a fender. One would think that clearance issues, braze-ons / bolting points and other simple aspects could be designed in from the outset. Particularly for the common add-ons in the after-market. There's no reason, IMO, other than wanting to remain special and proprietary.

Now, in the Tri and Racing type frames, I can see how choices get made to not include many things, decrease space tolerances, boost strength and reduce weight, etc. But no reason for taking things that way on a recreational bike that can serve the other 90% of the market. I'd think utter compatibility with standard add-ons would be a huge feature of any bike maker's range of offerings. It would lower the entry point price, would eliminate the brick wall many run into with upgrades or enhancements, would allow for customizing as users saw fit.

Good idea.

Sixty Fiver

28 pounds... steel frame and fork with an AW 3 speed and lightweight parts on what is a 1954 Raleigh.

cyccommute 

They are version of the Specialized Dirt Worm. The Dirt Worm was a pretty clever idea but it just never caught on. I may have to find a set of these. They do make changes on all tires easier.

Bandera

Here you go: An 8 speed IGH w/ an Alum frame, full mudguards, color matched fenders/chainguard/racks F&R, alloy rims and braze-ons including for a baby seat. You cut out the LBS and get a free kickstand! No custom build required.

Motobecane Bistro 8V Deluxe 8 Speed:

City Bikes Save up to 60% off new Motobecane Bistro 8V Deluxe Aluminum City Bikes from bikesdirect.com

-Bandera

fietsbob

FWIW its somewhat obvious 'Complete Streets' is not in Europe..

this is what is sold there used for City commuting and Touring, on their more generous holiday periods .

Cube Touring RF City Bike 2013 | Chain Reaction Cycles

note how they sell a fully equipped bike ... US the Bikes are Basic, and all the other things are point of sale , extra, options.

the Bikes themselves are cheaper , because of not being full feature.

[ same with an IGH equipped bike]

Bandera

Nothing like that available in the US.

Unless you have a Raleigh dealer: Raleigh Bicycles - Detour

Or a Trek dealer: District - Trek Bicycle

Or a Giant dealer: Via 1 W (2014) | Giant Bicycles | United States

Oh WHEN will the bicycle industry & dealers in the US heed the un-answered cry of lonely commuters for fully equipped town bikes?
Oh, they have. Never mind.......

-Bandera

Bandera

"Standards" for bikes evolve w/ technology, component mfgs set the standards for the frame/bike mfgs to follow.
Mfgs that don't keep up with evolving standards won't be able to produce bikes to the new spec so things change to a new standard.

There are indeed "standards" in effect today for accessories and components. 130/135 rear spacing, your choice of several brake types including disc, tire width, wheel size, fender & rack fitment, geometry, frame materials, fork diameter/HS spec and various drivetrains from IGH through triple are all available so that components inter-change and upgrade. Easy enough to build a bare frame up as one pleases because of standards.

Understanding what those specs are will prevent "brick wall" experiences. Old specs won't necessarily match new and there is no reason to expect that they will. In general racks fit, hubs fit, fenders fit since standards exist in the industry and one gets on with it.

-Bandera

Dahon.Steve

Funny how old school traditional streel frames made over 50 years ago will come in at 28 lbs with a three speed hub. My Oxford 3 speed from Bikes Direct is exactly the same weight. I've had 7, 5 and 3 speed bikes and enjoy the 3 speed more. The Nexus 3 speed is not heavy at all and it's almost like riding a single speed bike.

All the disatisfaction with "heavy hub" gears comes from having 7, 8, 9 or more internal gears. You can certainly feel the weight during accleration especially with stop and go traffic. You're carrying all that weight for maybe one or two hills in the entire day. No thanks.

If I'm going to climb hills, I want a derailluer bike. If it's flat riding around town or commuting, I'll take a three speed.

Sixty Fiver

My Raleigh may have gotten a little heavier when I changed the stem, bars, and levers back to period correct Raleigh Specials...

cyccommute 

Some of those items used to be optional on cars...radios and right side mirrors were the most common. Even seatbelt used to be an optional item on cars. That said, most bicyclists don't want some or need the "add-ons" you want. An IGH does nothing for me on a mountain bike. I don't need, nor want fenders and lights on my fast road bike. Not every bike I own is a transportation utilitarian bike and I don't need them to be.

There are lots and lots of choices out there for people who want a utilitarian bike new from the manufacturer as Bandera has pointed out. But they should be the only choice. I looked at the bikes that Bandera linked to and I have no desire to own one. I commute to work year around but I don't want that kind of bike for my commutes. I have little need for fenders. A front basket would be useless for the way I commute. I don't want lights from the manufacturer because most of the lights that come stock on a bike are ineffective and expensive.

Frankly, I like the fact that there is lots of variation across the bicycle industry. It's a free market that is driven by innovation. That's good. Making them all put stuff on bikes that the consumer doesn't want is bad. Having rack and fender mounts on this bike would be ridiculously useless



I've use it, from time to time, to ride to work but I don't need nor want racks, fenders, IGH hubs, generator hubs nor baskets on it.

Finally, people sell what other people want. If thousands of people wanted a bike like the Raleigh Detour, they would buy them and the shops would stock them. Most US bicycle commuters have figured out what works for them and what they need and have made the adaptations that they need to make.

Clyde1820

Putting stuff on that a given person won't want doesn't make much sense, you're right. But having the ability via braze-ons, attachment points and space for the most-common additions and tweaks simply makes good business sense. Makes it simpler for folks to avoid a dead-end, too, if needs and desires change even a little bit.

Myself, I'd much prefer nearly every bike but a full-on (racing type) MTB or road bike have space for even somewhat larger tires, allowance for fenders if desired, different forks, addition of lighting, tweaks to the derailleurs, bars, etc. Some of this is done of course. But on very many bikes the bike is already at the limit. On a garden-variety bike, I'd say that's short-sighted.

But he, to each his own. Choice is good.

Sixty Fiver

Someone already makes one but when you include the 8 speed IGH, fenders, dynamo lighting, and chaincase the price goes up accordingly.



Customizing and upgrading my wife's Peugeot brought it's value close to that of the Breezer... and it has no chain case which is usually impractical on a derailleur equipped bicycle.

She prefers this to a Soma Mixte she was using for a brief period of time that cost much more as it is really well fitted for her.

Sixty Fiver

The every day recreational, non commuting, non touring, and non utilitarian cyclist is probably looking for something different from the aforementioned groups that use their bicycles in a wider range of conditions, ride them more miles, and depend on them for transportation.

My daily commuter is a highly modified 1966 Moulton F with a bunch of new components and some period correct replacements... it is a tad bit heavy but you never notice that when you are topping out the 7 speed IGH.

Wilfred Laurier

i like the chainrings

did you mine for the drillium yourself

Sixty Fiver

I have a pretty good supply of drillium from back in the day when finding it was easier than it is now... the double the bike came with got swapped for a triple so my wife could handle the steeper climbs here in the city.