CompleteStreets

It seems that pretty much all panniers sold in the US are designed to be easily removable. On a visit to Holland I noticed that most people there have permanently fastened panniers that they always leave on the bike. Case in point: https://goo.gl/maps/QiACd

Where can I purchase something like this? I'll go to a hardware store to purchase stainless steel zip ties, hose clamps, whatever I think it takes to deter thieves from removing the panniers, but I need panniers that can accommodate such fasteners.

J.C. Koto

I don't know about permanently fastened panniers per se, but Ortlieb has a mechanism to "secure" the panniers with a cable, the QL2 anti-theft device. Really not "secure" as such but it should deter some degree of opportunistic thefts, or in other words it'll probably help keep honest people honest.

The Ortlieb system is basically an anchor with an attachment for a cable that fits between one of the pannier hooks and the pannier itself. Something similar (if not this exact same thing) can easily be fashioned for Arkel's pannier attachment system which, incidentally, I intend to do later today.

I have no idea about other brands of panniers since I don't know how their attachment systems work but it would not be unreasonably difficult to make a small hole in the fabric to accommodate a small screw-hook (and large washers to keep it from tearing through the fabric) to which a small loop of cable can be attached.

Of course none of these things would do diddly-puff to keep the pannier contents secure...

Dave Horne

The saddle bags here in Holland are attached to the bike but not permanently per se. A thief could remove a bag rather quickly though the typical saddle bags found in stores are not really very expensive. I've never heard of a bike bag being stolen (unless it was stolen along with the bike).

My previous bike bag was attached to the rear rack by straps and metal buckles. For extra security I used plastic ties to further deter thieves.

I now have Ortlieb bags which are easily removed though I have them locked to the rear rack with a flexible cable combination lock. (I find the Ortlieb bags great for shopping since I can easily remove them from the bike and bring them into my house. Previously I would have to unpack my groceries outside, place them in another shopping bag, and them unpack yet again in the kitchen.)

I used the semi permanently mounted saddle bags for almost the last 20 years. Now that I own Ortlieb bags I'll never go back.

If you're worried about theft I'd buy the bags you really like first and then come up with a lock of some kind to secure them to your bike.

This is a typical bike bag found here in Holland ... Basil Tour kopen? Bestel vandaag nog!

fietsbob

Wald Folding ones .. at any Bike shop .. PDX has 300.


Clever Cycles, Discussed before, is Very Dutch style Bike focused ..

Bring the Bike, Buy theirs , they will Bolt them On Cleverchimp panniers

Bike Buckets https://thebikebucket.com/ get 2 square Kitty Litter buckets & bolt them to the rack.
secure and Ghetto enough that no one will even try to remove them or vandalize them in an attempt.

CompleteStreets

Thanks for the input everyone.

How on Earth are these saddle bags only 32 Euros, and why on Earth are they rarely seen in US bike shops?

The main reason I want permanently fastened panniers is so that I can do spontaneous shopping, even if it's raining outside. For small purchases, say under $20, I'd even risk leaving items in the panniers if I need to run errands at multiple stores. If a cheap item gets stolen from the bags once a year or so it'll be worth it for the convenience. Wald folding baskets don't provide a means to hide contents.

Is there a way I can translate a Dutch site so I can obtain panniers for under $50? The US needs to realize that Ortlieb type panniers have limitations in that they can't be left on the bike, due to theft considerations.

jwarner

If I'm sure I don't want to take my Ortlieb Classic panniers with the QL-1 system off for awhile, I slip a stout cable tie between the back of the mounting hardware (the plastic rails), and zip tie them right to my rack at each corner on the bottom, and at three places on the top. This likely keeps opportunity theft of the panniers down. I mainly do this because it cuts down on rattle. The top hooks are just a little too big for my Jannd rack.

I'm sure you could do something similar with small screw clamps or even some kind of homemade shackle made out of Alu flat stock. I might pad the parts touching the fabric with some old bar tape or something to prevent wear, but have never had that problem with zip ties.

Dave Horne

The best way for you to buy a bike bag from over here is to have someone bring it over on the plane. You'll wind up paying a lot for shipping and possibly import tax if you order it online. (I have a friend in the US who visits Holland regularly and she brings all kinds of stuff that I've ordered.)


Most Dutch speak English very well and you could Skype a store and place your order as well. By the way, I just picked that link at random to show a typical Dutch bike bag.

Halfords is a well known store for bike and car parts here in Holland. Halfords is also in the UK.

bhchdh 

Have you tried Nashbar ? Nashbar Daytrekker Panniers
Or Performance ? Louis Garneau Explorer B-16 Panniers TransIt Classic Saddlebags Blackburn Local Saddle Bags

Robert C

Increased relative market size. People like to shout out "supply and Demand" as a phrase that they poorly understand because it is as far as they made it in econ; but really, pricing has more to do with marketing than econ. So much so that the courses in pricing are taught in the marketing program, not the econ classes.
I understand th econcerns with th eOrtlib panniers; but, as others have said, if you are willing to forgo the quick release feature (and to you it is, apparently, not a feature, it is a bug) they are easy to permanently affix to your bike. I have never gone the permanent route because I use mine as an office bag. However, look at the quick releases, they would be easy to unscrew and replace with a pair of small, hardware store, pipe clamps.

CompleteStreets

Thanks guys. The last four responses have been super helpful.

Dave Horne

One more comment. I have a large double bike bag from my previous bike that I'm not using. I paid €60+ for it and would accept €15 (less than $20). That bag is in excellent condition and is 18 months old.

If you or anyone you know is coming over this way, let me know. I thought of placing that bike bag on the Dutch version of Craig's List but they want something around €9 to place an ad. (It used to be free.) It's just taking up space in my storage area.

dynaryder

You realize Euros have a higher value than dollars?

As for finding them in a shop,check with one that carries lots of touring stuff:
Basil Tour XL Double Bag 17016 40L, Black/Black

BTW,the HTO up the road from me in MD carries cheap panniers,can't remember which brand. Pretty sure the EMS over in Arlington does too. Try any local outdoors stores that sell cycling stuff.

CompleteStreets

Thanks. I may get these :-)

CompleteStreets

Thanks for the offer Dave. I'll keep my ears open in case anyone I know will be out your way in the near future.

Steamtrain76

The Nylon Tie Solution
short of going to metal or plastic bucket style panniers, all panniers are made of fabric of some kind or another and an be cut open with a knife.... so security is relative to the limitations of the weakest link.....which negates the point of incorperating heavy metal locks and cables to secure "FABRIC...."

In my humble opinion, i feel i am getting the best protection with the aforementioned in mind, by using nylon ties.
I can secure ym bags to my bike and i can secure the buckles so they cant be opened. I just keep a serrated pocket knife or ****s handy....(the equivelant of one master lock or less.)
i also nylon tie my wheel skewer to my frame so they cant be undone...(u need a hole in the skewer lever for this...)
lights etc same approach...

This method keeps the convenience thiefs at bay.... but a prepared and determined thief? Not much can be done....
hope this helps... here are some pics of my ortliebs.... i just keep a supply of zip ties at all times... cuz they r so handy for lot of fixes....
i tried to post pics, hopefully it worked, im new to this forum stuff... let me know if u would like more pics....

Steamtrain76

More pics:

CompleteStreets

Thanks Steamtrain76. This is very helpful.

fietsbob

BTW if you unscrew the ends of the straps on Ortlieb's top hooks and remove the strap, you also remove the way the catches on the top Hooks are Opened.

Sullalto

One of the bikes in the map picture looks like it has something similar to the timbuk2 tandem pannier.