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What key is best on a lock - None???

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What key is best on a lock - None???

Old 02-04-15, 08:12 AM
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Fly2High
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What key is best on a lock - None???

Not sure if many of you are a little concerned about lock for bikes but I have reservations.

First, we all know that every lock can be defeated so please do not post comments such as this here. We already know this.

We are all looking for the best way to protect our bikes.


What I would like to do is bring awareness to how easy it is to defeat pretty much all of our locks.



Round Key Locks
We all know about round keys and the bic pen method of picking the lock
Twist a Pen, Open a Lock
Twist a Pen, Open a Lock

How to Break a Masterlock U-Lock bicycle lock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-LWGJzglho

How To Unlock a Kryptonite Lock With a Bic Pen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LahDQ2ZQ3e0

Flat key/Dimple keys and Lock Bumping
Of course this has made many run to flat keys, probably the typical spring loaded pin type.

pin type of keys, including doorlocks, etc can be 'picked' by making a lock bumping key and tapping the key to get the pins to jump and rotated.

Here are some examples of what lock bumping is:

Master Lock Bumping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dcj_iflG8E

How Lock Bumping Works - Bump Proof Locks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts9owN1Tz3w

Ultimate Lock Bumping Solution...National Safety Expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUOGiTsevqQ


As you can see, even a flat key can be bumped. Even the keys with dimples instead of sawtooth can be bumped like this.


Disk locks
then you have disk tumbler locks where you have disks instead of pins that are used like Assa and Abloy style locks. Hate to say it but they too can be worked around rather simply.

How to open Abloy Protec cylinder lock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj4myR2XlWc

Not sure if Assa/Abloy or if there are any other disk manufacturers have a way to prevent this but to me, it doesn't really matter how strong the rest of the lock if there are these simple quick methods to bypass a lock.

At the same time, I am sure that the lock manufacturers need to have a way to defeat the lock. There are how many locksmiths in the world and if the only way to bypass a lock is to destroy what surrounds it, customers wouldn't bother calling them. I am not sure.


Now that this knowledge is out there and it only took me 3 minutes of searching to find this information, what locks ARE worth getting and why?

Hopefully groups doing reviews will take these things into consideration when posting their reviews because otherwise they are not worth the ink they are posted with.


Frank
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Old 02-04-15, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Fly2High View Post
We are all looking for the best way to protect our bikes. ...
Get two different locks (like a U-lock and a chain, with different-style keys) and use them both. Then your bike is 2X as difficult to steal as all the other ones around.

------

Interesting factoid: I noticed that some months BEFORE I began to see people online talking about "picking barrel-key locks with a ball point pen", all the vending machines where I worked (all of them located inside and outside) at had their locks changed to Van locks:
Van Lock Company
They were ALL changed on the same day, too. These were owned/operated by an outside company, so at the time I couldn't easily ask anyone what the story was.

(Van locks are pick-able but it is pretty difficult even with the correct tool, it seems)

I am casually interested in the whole back story of the bic pen thing: has anyone (like, in media I mean) ever done an investigation?
Before it hit the internet, ALL the vending machines I ever saw used barrel-key locks. Even though the cash box is usually protected by a second locking compartment inside,,,, somebody had to be going around emptying vending machines. And police would know where it began, from the vending company complaints that first appeared.....
What is the real timeline of this story?
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Old 02-04-15, 06:56 PM
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First,there was only a certain run of round key locks that were Bic-able. The earlier ones we're effected. Second,how often to bike locks gets picked? They mostly just get cut. Thief who stole my Ti cross bike used a power tool to cut through a Krypto Fugh U lock and thick chain. Lots of vids that show people breaking/cutting locks because it's just quicker than picking.

As for raising awareness,I think it's pretty much out there that if a thief really wants your bike,it's gone. This is just repeating a topic that pops up a couple times a year.
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Old 02-04-15, 07:22 PM
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Back decades ago.... my Dad was a cop. Dad used to say "Locks keep honest people honest".

Dad was right too. A lock can be like the proverbial "knife at a gunfight". Thieves come equipped with tools, knowledge, and/or tricks that are greater than any commercial locks available. But that 14 year old kid that doesn't feel like walking or taking the bus... who might steal your bike for a hoot. He can be defeated with a $5 cable lock.

Ride a beater... and when you absolutely can't be riding it... lock it up.
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Old 02-04-15, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug5150 View Post
Get two different locks (like a U-lock and a chain, with different-style keys) and use them both. Then your bike is 2X as difficult to steal as all the other ones around.
This.
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Old 02-04-15, 10:56 PM
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I wouldn't worry so much about the key, as the shackle- more thieves these days carry power tools, as opposed to having good lock-picking skills.

Funny thing, too- years ago, my nephew (who is a moron, who is incapable of changing a spark plug) found a locked combination lock in the street. He said "All I have to do is figure out the combination, and I've got me a lock". I laughed...and pictured him futzing with the lock for the next 20 years and never getting it open. He had it open in less than 2 minutes. Imagine if he knew what he was doing?!
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Old 02-05-15, 11:13 AM
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At $100 the lock, and its keying used on my Abus Bordo Granite is more sophisticated than the $30 OnGuard..

My Axa Defender ring lock the key is made with the pins keying in the side , not the edges..

With It I have 1.4M chain with a Pin that uses the ring lock to secure it. (& front wheel and onto something.. )



But Note: I don't live in New York, San Francisco .. Or a College town where theft is More Common .

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-05-15 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 02-05-15, 11:31 PM
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I think you might be overblowing the issue ... Just judging from lock reviews most don't say my lock was picked/found unbroken but instead cut or otherwise forcefully broken.
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Old 02-06-15, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fly2High View Post
Disk locks
then you have disk tumbler locks where you have disks instead of pins that are used like Assa and Abloy style locks. Hate to say it but they too can be worked around rather simply.

How to open Abloy Protec cylinder lock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj4myR2XlWc

Not sure if Assa/Abloy or if there are any other disk manufacturers have a way to prevent this but to me, it doesn't really matter how strong the rest of the lock if there are these simple quick methods to bypass a lock.
Heard about that a while ago and checked my Abloy padlock and i'm not sure it would be that easy on abloy padlocks as the drill would have to go through part of the case. As it gets narrower the deeper you go, it's very likely that the tool shown in the video will get stuck before reaching in. Not sure what happen with narrower drills but it is supposed to be tested against drilling. Something to look at (I'm not going to damage my padlock to know if it does or not though)



I find the Abloy PL362 better than the Mul-T-lock E18H (got both and sent back the E18H) (the E18H is bigger and heavier than the Abloy one but key holes and keys are weak)



For peace of mind there is the Sargent & Greenleaf 951C (if you have money)

Last edited by erig007; 02-06-15 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 02-08-15, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Back decades ago.... my Dad was a cop. Dad used to say "Locks keep honest people honest".

Dad was right too. A lock can be like the proverbial "knife at a gunfight". Thieves come equipped with tools, knowledge, and/or tricks that are greater than any commercial locks available. But that 14 year old kid that doesn't feel like walking or taking the bus... who might steal your bike for a hoot. He can be defeated with a $5 cable lock.
It's like the Cyber security deal.....one person thinks of a defense and ten thousand crooks work at getting around it. You'd be lucky to do anything that some thief doesn't already know how to defeat. I use a Knog Strongman just because it's different and they might have to think about getting past it.....they'll probably just go to a Kryptonite and repeat what they've seen on YouTube.

I drove for a company that paid eighty dollars apiece (buying by the case) for padlocks to secure the trailer doors. Most of the time a couple hundred dollars worth of damage was done to the doors with no actual entry gained. Once in a very great while a smart thief would just cut the fifty cent hasp with a hacksaw and be inside within minutes.
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Old 02-08-15, 11:36 AM
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I like the key of G Major . 1 sharp . F#, and C major no # or flats .
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Old 02-08-15, 12:18 PM
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Somewhere between 'most' and 'all' thefts of locked bikes are accomplished by cutting, not picking.

If you are in the woods with your friend, and you are being chased by a bear, you don't have to outrun the bear - you just have to outrun your friend.
The bike lock corollary is:
If your bike is locked to a rack with other bikes, it doesn't have to be impossible to steal - it just has to be less attractive to thieves than other bikes on the rack.
Most experienced urban cyclists accomplish this by either a crappy (or crappy looking) bike, or with a complicated and impressive locking regimen, or some combination of the two.

Today's inexperienced and optimistic cyclists who buy a shiny new bike to ride to work or school, expecting to lock it up for 8 hours a day in the same place, are tomorrow's cynical 'experienced' riders who don't want to have another good bike stolen, so ride junkers on their commute.
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Old 02-09-15, 07:32 AM
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A GPS tracker hidden well (perhaps inside the frame) is probably the only extremely reliable way to keep your bike in your possession, as long as you pay to keep it running and charge it frequently. It might also make you some friends in the bicyclist community, when you start catching bike thieves. Problem is that hardware can be pretty expensive, and so is running it.

Otherwise your best bet, as said, is to keep your nice bike behind locked doors, and make your commuter (or whatever it is you're locking) look trashy. Few bicycle thieves are themselves experienced with what bicycles are worth more money, and will go for the shiny new Walmart bike. Of course, using a good lock will put you ahead too, as they will go for the easy to get bike as well.

-V
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Old 02-09-15, 09:04 AM
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SO why not make life harder for the thieves? What is really hard to cut, is it tungsten or titanium? Why not make the hoop and body out of that stuff so it would take a year and a day to cut. By the way, if it is so hard to cut, they could also go thinner then and possibly save some weight - maybe.

I know, probably would cost too much so why would anyone buy it...

Thanks everyone for the comments. I was just looking to bring awareness to these things which I think I have.

What really is terrible is the fact that the world has changed so much that we need to think like this. A coworker and I were talking about how at 10-15 yrs old we use to bike miles. Just seemed like a safer place to live. Less to worry about, even on Long Island, NY! Maybe this is all brought to the forefront by the internet or sesational TV or what I do not know.

All I wish is we could return to the simpler times of our youth.
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Old 02-09-15, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Fly2High View Post

What really is terrible is the fact that the world has changed so much that we need to think like this. A coworker and I were talking about how at 10-15 yrs old we use to bike miles. Just seemed like a safer place to live. Less to worry about, even on Long Island, NY! Maybe this is all brought to the forefront by the internet or sesational TV or what I do not know.

All I wish is we could return to the simpler times of our youth.
You're right, it just keeps getting worse. I'm originally from "The Island"(LI) and for decades, you'd rarely if ever hear of a serious crime in the area I was from. You could see how it was changing, in the time before I moved. And now...it's like NYC- armed robberies and ev erything are becoming common-place.

Don't know how old you are, but the turning point in the NYC was the early 1970's. Before then, even in The City, people did not just accept the inevitability of crime. By the early 70's though, it had become so commonplace, that security measures like keeping the roof and alleyway doors of buildings locked, became the norm; as well as flooding the streets with bright street-lighting; etc.

Now that I moved to a rural place where every house has at least five bang-bangs....it's like going back 40 or 50 years in tim. My neighbor has a 6 bay equipment shed with no doors, with tens of thousands of dollars worth of large and small equipment/tools/etc. No one's home all day- and in the 10 years he's lived there, not one item has "walked away". Haha, if that were The Island, the place would be cleaned-out in one night! I'll tell you, it sure is nice living where people aren't always at each other's throats; and where the innocent don't have to be paranoid and fearful.
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