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A new kind of bike lock ...?

Old 03-21-15, 12:44 PM
  #1  
Dave Horne
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A new kind of bike lock ...?

I just stumbled upon this ... Litelok bicycle lock makes security lightweight - SlashGear




... video

https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/projects/1688925/video-510487-h264_high.mp4
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Old 03-21-15, 01:16 PM
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That looks pretty interesting. I would like to see more attempts and information regarding continual attacks on it however. I cannot believe that a hacksaw would not be able to cut through that material.
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Old 03-21-15, 01:46 PM
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Nearly an exact replica of the hardlock from b twin i talked about here a few years ago.
Seems to share the same weaknesses as well.
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Old 03-21-15, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TenSpeedV2 View Post
That looks pretty interesting. I would like to see more attempts and information regarding continual attacks on it however. I cannot believe that a hacksaw would not be able to cut through that material.
I think the issue is not whether the hacksaw can cut through it but how much time it would take. According to the kickstarter page, internal tests show the lock surviving 5 minutes of attack. That could mean 4 minutes of bolt cutters and 1 minute of hacksaw. Or 4 minutes of trying to tear it apart, 50 seconds of bolt cutters, and 10 seconds of hacksawing.

I'm not going to really put much stock in this lock until the developers get it tested by Sold Secure. Internal testing results are obviously going to be positive.
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Old 03-21-15, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Nearly an exact replica of the hardlock from b twin i talked about here a few years ago.
Seems to share the same weaknesses as well.
What was the weakness of the B'twin hardlock? I searched the forum; couldn't find previous discussions.
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Old 03-21-15, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Deontologist View Post
What was the weakness of the B'twin hardlock? I searched the forum; couldn't find previous discussions.
What isn't flexible (locking mechanism)
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Old 03-22-15, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
What isn't flexible (locking mechanism)

What exactly about the locking mechanism?
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Old 03-22-15, 12:34 PM
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Interesting design

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Old 03-22-15, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Deontologist View Post
What exactly about the locking mechanism?
It seems to have no difference with any other ulock at this area which means pickable, vulnerable to powertools... Doesn't matter if the remaining part of the lock is temper proof if one area isn't.
I will put it in the same category as the TiGr lock.
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Old 03-22-15, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
It seems to have no difference with any other ulock at this area which means pickable, vulnerable to powertools... Doesn't matter if the remaining part of the lock is temper proof if one area isn't.
I will put it in the same category as the TiGr lock.
The Abloy Protec lock on the TiGr lock certainly isn't pickable. But vulnerable to powertools for sure.

Also what you said about being pickable and vulnerable to power tools applies basically to every bike lock across the board (with the exception of any locks using Abloy Protec cylinders ... these can't be picked ...)
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Old 03-22-15, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Deontologist View Post
The Abloy Protec lock on the TiGr lock certainly isn't pickable. But vulnerable to powertools for sure.

Also what you said about being pickable and vulnerable to power tools applies basically to every bike lock across the board (with the exception of any locks using Abloy Protec cylinders ... these can't be picked ...)
I was talking about overall security level. There are differences between the 2 for sure but similitudes as well:
both are average solutions in terms of preventing attacks, have unconventional design, are under 1kg and are a compromise between security, weight and usability.
(Tigr lock gets 2/5 stars here https://www.stichtingart.nl/sloten_resultaat.asp)

Last edited by erig007; 03-22-15 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 03-22-15, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
I was talking about overall security level. There are differences between the 2 for sure but similitudes as well:
both are average solutions in terms of preventing attacks, have unconventional design, are under 1kg and are a compromise between security, weight and usability.
(Tigr lock gets 2/5 stars here Stichting ART |)
The problem with a new and different lock - especially one that look flimsy is that it might invite attacks. I wouldn't want someone trying to take bolt cutters to the plasticky looking lock in the OP. Even if they don't get through in time, the bolt cutters might damage my bike.

Imagine a thief jamming bolt cutters up next to your bike. Do you really think the thief is going to care if he inflicts a bit of cosmetic damage? What if the damage is more than cosmetic - which is fairly possible if you have thin-walled aluminium bike or a carbon bike? I wouldn't want the guy to try anything out on my bike and lock. What if the thief thinks he can rip the plastic-looking lock and starts tugging on it - or worse - your bike? Perhaps he tries to use your bike as a cheater bar and trys to leverage the lock open. You come out later and see your frame taco'd.

I'd much rather just have a beefy-looking u-lock to deter amateur hour.

Last edited by Deontologist; 03-22-15 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 03-23-15, 07:22 AM
  #13  
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If you read bike thieves on the subject of their work, it's the new/novel/rare that they avoid. They're out to steal bikes, not learn how to break locks, and it's simply wise to avoid putting oneself at risk of arrest trying to figure out a lock.

Additionally, more expensive locks, it stands to reason, are less likely to be purchased by theives for the purpose of destructive testing, so another reason to go exotic with a lock, especially if you're not wanting to go maximum security (perhaps for weight and portability reasons).
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Old 03-23-15, 07:37 AM
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I like this Litelok! It's not as discreetly portable as the TiGr, and needing two of them for full capture is awkward, but for most of my lockup scenarios, it'd do. It looks really easy to deploy, which is cool.

Still, at less than 1/4 the weight of a single LiteLok while enabling full capture (which is +4kg in Litelok), the standard 075 TiGr will remain my lock of choice.
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Old 03-23-15, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
If you read bike thieves on the subject of their work, it's the new/novel/rare that they avoid. They're out to steal bikes, not learn how to break locks, and it's simply wise to avoid putting oneself at risk of arrest trying to figure out a lock.

Additionally, more expensive locks, it stands to reason, are less likely to be purchased by theives for the purpose of destructive testing, so another reason to go exotic with a lock, especially if you're not wanting to go maximum security (perhaps for weight and portability reasons).

Won't remain new for very long. Don't know for you but i expect my lock to outlast me which means thieves will certainly know how to defeat it sooner or later.
Plus once thieves figure this one out the flashy design will allow them to know what type of lock they have to deal with from across the street or even a 1/4 mile away vs one that is more discreet.

Last edited by erig007; 03-23-15 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 03-23-15, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Won't remain new for very long. Don't know for you but i expect my lock to outlast me which means thieves will certainly know how to defeat it sooner or later.
Plus once thieves figure this one out the flashy design will allow them to know what type of lock they have to deal with from across the street or even a 1/4 mile away vs one that is more discreet.
Haha! You think it's new relative to you?!?!? Like thieves are going to learn how to break a lock just because you've had it for a long time??? BWAAAHAHAHA!
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Old 03-23-15, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Haha! You think it's new relative to you?!?!? Like thieves are going to learn how to break a lock just because you've had it for a long time??? BWAAAHAHAHA!
What the title of this thread is about?
New kind of bike lock, isn't it?
Adoption curve, does it ring a bell?
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Old 03-24-15, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Adoption curve, does it ring a bell?
Sure it does, in the sense that you have no idea what it will be. You don't know how many will be made, sold where, what their distribution will be, when theives in any given area will be familiar with them, nor what the relative costs of breaking one will be compared to known and widely used locks...yet you think "it won't be new for long"??? Get serious, man.
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Old 03-24-15, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Sure it does, in the sense that you have no idea what it will be. You don't know how many will be made, sold where, what their distribution will be, when theives in any given area will be familiar with them, nor what the relative costs of breaking one will be compared to known and widely used locks...yet you think "it won't be new for long"??? Get serious, man.
Doesn't matter what the real quantitative measurements will be, the safest approach is to assume the worst and be prepared for it as there is no sure way to know when and where a thief is going to go for your bike nor when this thief will know how to defeat your lock. Most cyclists i meet and know tend to underestimate the risks, i had to educate them about the flimsy cable lock or the "i leave my bike there unlocked but it's just for 5 minutes.. nothing will happen".

As this report shows most stolen bikes (37.5%) in this Montreal study were locked with just a cable lock. If you add those unlocked it's 46% of the stolen bikes.
https://tram.mcgill.ca/Research/Publi...ling_theft.pdf
According to this same study, 50% of cyclists were subjected to a bicycle theft during their lifetime as active cyclist.

Last edited by erig007; 03-24-15 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 03-24-15, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
As this report shows most stolen bikes (37.5%) in this Montreal study were locked with just a cable lock. If you add those unlocked it's 46% of the stolen bikes.

https://tram.mcgill.ca/Research/Publi...ling_theft.pdf

According to this same study, 50% of cyclists were subjected to a bicycle theft during their lifetime as active cyclist.
Interesting data ... go with a U-lock

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Old 03-24-15, 03:23 PM
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Abus Bordo Granit is a pretty good lock . the heavy steel bars do fold Up nicely. I have the Carry pouch on my Bike Friday.


no specifics offered in that Other locks category But there is a lot of companies trying for a market share slice in the U lock sector.
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Old 03-24-15, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Doesn't matter what the real quantitative measurements will be, the safest approach is to assume the worst and be prepared for it as there is no sure way to know when and where a thief is going to go for your bike nor when this thief will know how to defeat your lock. Most cyclists i meet and know tend to underestimate the risks, i had to educate them about the flimsy cable lock or the "i leave my bike there unlocked but it's just for 5 minutes.. nothing will happen".

As this report shows most stolen bikes (37.5%) in this Montreal study were locked with just a cable lock. If you add those unlocked it's 46% of the stolen bikes.
https://tram.mcgill.ca/Research/Publi...ling_theft.pdf
According to this same study, 50% of cyclists were subjected to a bicycle theft during their lifetime as active cyclist.
That's not germane to our discussion, but it does tell us that if you want the lowest likelihood of being amongst the number of stolen bikes, you'll choose a lock in the Other category. I've no doubt that choosing a rare lock of high quality will further reduce those odds...unless of course you've had one for a long time, in which case we're all screwed.
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Old 03-25-15, 06:19 PM
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It occurs to me that it might be very vulnerable to a car jack or a cigarette lighter.
If the fabric is very strong, it'd resist the car jack, but if the attachment to the lock part is lacking, then it's all over.
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Old 03-25-15, 07:09 PM
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Has the manufacturer tested the lock by setting up bait bikes and a hidden camera?
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