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RAGBRAI Trouble

Old 10-16-19, 03:42 AM
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RAGBRAI Trouble

Looks like there's trouble on the horizon.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...oines-register
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Old 10-16-19, 06:35 AM
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That is just ridiculous. We, as a nation have, have lost our collective minds. They are going to screw up the greatest group bike ride in the world over an insensitive Tweet a 16 year old dipstick made eight years ago. Will this stupidity ever end?
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Old 10-16-19, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Will this stupidity ever end?
If you're over 60, as I am, not likely in our lifetimes.
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Old 10-16-19, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
If you're over 60, as I am, not likely in our lifetimes.
TJ Juskiewicz ain't no spring chicken. Maybe not over 60, but looks pretty close.

Can't blame everything on the "millennials".
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Old 10-16-19, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
TJ Juskiewicz ain't no spring chicken. Maybe not over 60, but looks pretty close.

Can't blame everything on the "millennials".


I didn't say who's fault it was, I said it's not likely to change in our lifetimes. If you read something else into it, it's what you were thinking, not me.
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Old 10-16-19, 08:59 AM
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The 1st Amendment is a check on government's ability to restrict speech.

"Congress shall make no law...."

(It's been held applicable to state governments.)
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Old 10-16-19, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
I didn't say who's fault it was, I said it's not likely to change in our lifetimes. If you read something else into it, it's what you were thinking, not me.
Ha, maybe so! It seemed like a slam on the youth.

I'm neither a "millennial" nor a "boomer", so I can cast blame either direction.
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Old 10-16-19, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
The 1st Amendment is a check on government's ability to restrict speech.

"Congress shall make no law...."

(It's been held applicable to state governments.)
No government is involved in this fracas, so I guess TJ and the other organizers can do whatever they want. It's a shame to destroy a cool event over this, however. The RAGBRAI brand is pretty well established.
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Old 10-16-19, 11:06 AM
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The facts are just weird. The Ragbrai organizers get mad at the Register for an article it published. The organizers get some push back because some people think the ride and the paper are the same. The organizers get even madder because the paper tells them that they cannot address the issue to the public so they decide that the best solution is to go out and destroy Ragbrai. There is no way the state can support 2 rides like this over the same dates.
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Old 10-16-19, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
The organizers get even madder because the paper tells them that they cannot address the issue to the public....
That's the part that has me a bit confused. It almost sounds like the staff wanted participant contact information so it could "speak" directly with participants.

"But in a statement this week, Juskiewicz explained that he was offended by the paper's attempt to stop him from communicating with event participants, who he called 'RAGBRAI Nation'

'RAGBRAIís parent companies (Des Moines Register & Gannett/USA Today) claim 'we will uphold First Amendment principles,' but they refused to offer me that same opportunity to openly speak to the RAGBRAI Nation and answer the hundreds of passionate questions asked about the future of RAGBRAI following the Des Moines Registerís handling of the Carson King story,' Juskiewicz said in the statement.

"'I have always been totally transparent with the RAGBRAI Nation and have earned their trust since my first day in 2003. In these past few weeks, my efforts to communicate with our loyal riders has been consistently blocked as it did not mesh with the companyís PR narrative to spin the Carson King embarrassment.'"

The paper is the owner of the event so it undoubtedly has control over participants' contact information, such as email addresses. I am willing to bet he wanted to email participants directly and was not allowed to do so by the paper. The other possibility is that he wanted to pen an editorial piece but they wouldn't run it. That seems less likely because the event attracts people from all over. How many of them read the "Register"?
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Old 10-16-19, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
That's the part that has me a bit confused. It almost sounds like the staff wanted participant contact information so it could "speak" directly with participants.

"But in a statement this week, Juskiewicz explained that he was offended by the paper's attempt to stop him from communicating with event participants, who he called 'RAGBRAI Nation'

'RAGBRAI’s parent companies (Des Moines Register & Gannett/USA Today) claim 'we will uphold First Amendment principles,' but they refused to offer me that same opportunity to openly speak to the RAGBRAI Nation and answer the hundreds of passionate questions asked about the future of RAGBRAI following the Des Moines Register’s handling of the Carson King story,' Juskiewicz said in the statement.

"'I have always been totally transparent with the RAGBRAI Nation and have earned their trust since my first day in 2003. In these past few weeks, my efforts to communicate with our loyal riders has been consistently blocked as it did not mesh with the company’s PR narrative to spin the Carson King embarrassment.'"

The paper is the owner of the event so it undoubtedly has control over participants' contact information, such as email addresses. I am willing to bet he wanted to email participants directly and was not allowed to do so by the paper. The other possibility is that he wanted to pen an editorial piece but they wouldn't run it. That seems less likely because the event attracts people from all over. How many of them read the "Register"?
Agreed, reading a bit between the lines I think the organizers wanted to use Ragbrai's email list to make a political statement. The reasons that the Register might have thought that a bad idea go way beyond the fact that they published the article that some people found offensive and incorrectly associated with the ride.

What blows my mind is that the organizers thought the solution was to destroy the ride. What a great way to pay back the paper for having put on this ride on for so many years.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post

What blows my mind is that the organizers thought the solution was to destroy the ride. What a great way to pay back the paper for having put on this ride on for so many years.
Hopefully the new people they get to organize the ride will be able to pull it off, but there may be a learning curve. Should be "interesting" to see what happens with competing rides. I am leaning towards diehards and newbies ignoring the "politics" and sticking with the original, especially since it seems unnecessarily spiteful to hold the new ride during the same week. Dude talks about his great relationship with the "RAGBRAI Nation," but the decision could create some backlash among people who simply want their great event to go on as usual.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Hopefully the new people they get to organize the ride will be able to pull it off, but there may be a learning curve. Should be "interesting" to see what happens with competing rides. I am leaning towards diehards and newbies ignoring the "politics" and sticking with the original, especially since it seems unnecessarily spiteful to hold the new ride during the same week. Dude talks about his great relationship with the "RAGBRAI Nation," but the decision could create some backlash among people who simply want their great event to go on as usual.
The decision is more than just spiteful. The ex Ragbrai organizers wanted to do maximum damage to Ragbrai. Beats the heck out of me why they wanted to damage the ride but they clearly do.
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Old 10-16-19, 03:34 PM
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Over the years, RAGBRAI has become a nice profit center for the Des Moines Register and their corporate owner, Gannett. Each year, it becomes a little more "corporate" and they squeeze the vendors harder and harder for a slice of the pie. So it was kind of delicious to watch their Carson King muckraking backfire so spectacularly.

I don't know exactly what TJ wanted to say but couldn't, but many of the Iowa cyclists I know figure this incident was just the straw that broke the camel's back. If TJ and the other organizers really wanted to destroy RAGBRAI, they would have simply quit. Starting a new ride allows them more freedom to continue the tradition we enjoy without DSM/Gannett's meddling and stipulations.

Logistically, it will be interesting to see how things shake out. I suspect that within a year or two, one of the rides will fizzle out, and everyone will come together for the one that survives. On the other hand, having 20,000 people split between two rides wouldn't be the end of the world for those of us who thinks RAGBRAI gets too crowded at times. Either way, I think the outlook is good for us riders.
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Old 10-16-19, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Each year, it becomes a little more "corporate" and they squeeze the vendors harder and harder for a slice of the pie.
Interesting. Same thing happened to Cycle Oregon. I did four over a span of 10 years. The last time (2012) was clearly more corporate, whereas the early ones had more local flavor. Itís my understanding that the ride organizers farmed out the event to a for profit entity. They even recycled routes, which I am sure cuts down the logistical workload.
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Old 10-16-19, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Over the years, RAGBRAI has become a nice profit center for the Des Moines Register and their corporate owner, Gannett. Each year, it becomes a little more "corporate" and they squeeze the vendors harder and harder for a slice of the pie. So it was kind of delicious to watch their Carson King muckraking backfire so spectacularly.

I don't know exactly what TJ wanted to say but couldn't, but many of the Iowa cyclists I know figure this incident was just the straw that broke the camel's back. If TJ and the other organizers really wanted to destroy RAGBRAI, they would have simply quit. Starting a new ride allows them more freedom to continue the tradition we enjoy without DSM/Gannett's meddling and stipulations.

Logistically, it will be interesting to see how things shake out. I suspect that within a year or two, one of the rides will fizzle out, and everyone will come together for the one that survives. On the other hand, having 20,000 people split between two rides wouldn't be the end of the world for those of us who thinks RAGBRAI gets too crowded at times. Either way, I think the outlook is good for us riders.
Sure but that's a completely different story than the one the organizers are telling, right? Why else start a competing ride on the same dates unless they wanted to damage Ragbrai?

The organizers are mad and the question is why. Your story makes more sense than the one that is being reported.

By the way, why not just say that? The organizers could have said that they think the Register is doing a poor job of running Ragbrai and it was time to move on.

What in the world does the Carson King story have to do with this decision?

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Old 10-16-19, 08:19 PM
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"
"

Welcome to the reaction to the "cancel culture"
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Old 10-16-19, 08:22 PM
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I find this all quite amusing. Poor decisions by all parties, both in the past and now. Both the sign holder and reporter apparently made some not-so-smart tweets. Apparently making statements for all the world to see forever doesn't require any thought as to consequences. The Register made some heavy-handed decisions that do not shine the world's best light on them (and will force them to hustle a little harder next summer).

I'll bet everything is just going to roll along as it should. Those who made poor choices will pay but their lives will go on. RAGBRAI will go on just fine next summer, maybe not quite sold out. I'll guess the new ride will have between 100 and 1000 riders. There's room for both and if both are run well, both should grow.

My big take from all this? Just - think before you act. Maybe even hold your thoughts until you wake up tomorrow.

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Old 10-16-19, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Sure but that's a completely different story than the one the organizers are telling, right? Why else start a competing ride on the same dates unless they wanted to damage Ragbrai?

The organizers are mad and the question is why. Your story makes more sense than the one that is being reported.

By the way, why not just say that? The organizers could have said that they think the Register is doing a poor job of running Ragbrai and it was time to move on.

What in the world does the Carson King story have to do with this decision?
Good questions! There's a lot I still don't know about the situation; lots of speculation going around.

Perhaps TJ wanted to do a tie-in with Carson for RAGBRAI and then the tweet thing put the kibosh on that, I dunno. I've met TJ once or twice, and I know cycling people who've worked with him regularly, so I find it hard to believe that he would want to damage RAGBRAI itself.

I could also be naive, too.
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Old 10-17-19, 06:53 AM
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I just find it ridiculous that people want to constantly die on the cross of either supporting or going out of their way to lambast PC culture. If you view Gannett or the media as liberal, why choose this cross instead of guns or abortion or picking on Trump?

Sounds like to me somebody wanted to go rogue on their own views by utilizing a larger organization's information for the riders.

You're entitled to your speech, but you're not entitled to have somebody else do all the work for you to rent the stage, set up the equipment for you, check the mic, and put your rosy message onto the teleprompter.

Same thing with the colleges. It feels not fair, but you can come speak if you wish by paying yourself and renting space and going through the hoops to get your permits. You just might not get the red carpet at some places like you would other places. You can still go, but just on your own dime. Not the school's.

So, this guy decided to die on the PC cross here by making the paper look like the bad guy for ruining the ride. When in reality, he ruined it because he's too childish to figure out a better way to get his message across.

That's what I'm hearing.

Not only that, the paper is the paper. It isn't the parks and rec department of the area. So this falls under the "get mad when you encounter real world capitalism".

Paper can do wtf ever they wanna do. Might be not your favorite, but there it is.

Personally I think it's junk to dig up people's past from so many years ago just because they happen to make the news on something totally unrelated. If the guy isn't the current acting "grand wizard" in town, leave him alone if he wants to donate money.

At the same time, choosing the ride to make your political stance is really crappy. I didn't see anywhere where the paper called the ride racist for wanting to donate to the guy. It was about improperly digging dirt on the guy. Which has nothing to do with the bike ride other than the paper/organizers link and somebody who wanted to go rogue.

That's where I am.
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Old 10-17-19, 09:39 AM
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As long as the two rides don't intersect, it might turn out to be a great thing.

Say one goes north, the other south. Now if you've got, say, 15,000 people who want to ride across Iowa one week, half of them can ride each ride. OK, it'll probably end up being more like 10,000/5,000 the first year, since there's going to be trememdous inertia connected with the RAGBRAI name. My point is, since there's too many people trying to ride RAGBRAI, and many end up pirating the event, why not split the ride into two? It even makes sense to have both rides the same week. Prospective riders have to choose which ride they want to do, instead of having large numbers trying to ride both (and filling up all the slots before other, later registering, prospective riders can get in).

It'll be interesting to see how DMR can handle the ride with all the people who knew what they were doing leaving the organization. I'd tend to go with the experienced people, instead of the fancy name, if I were to pick one to ride next summer.
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Old 10-17-19, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I just find it ridiculous that people want to constantly die on the cross of either supporting or going out of their way to lambast PC culture. If you view Gannett or the media as liberal, why choose this cross instead of guns or abortion or picking on Trump?

Sounds like to me somebody wanted to go rogue on their own views by utilizing a larger organization's information for the riders.

You're entitled to your speech, but you're not entitled to have somebody else do all the work for you to rent the stage, set up the equipment for you, check the mic, and put your rosy message onto the teleprompter.

Same thing with the colleges. It feels not fair, but you can come speak if you wish by paying yourself and renting space and going through the hoops to get your permits. You just might not get the red carpet at some places like you would other places. You can still go, but just on your own dime. Not the school's.

So, this guy decided to die on the PC cross here by making the paper look like the bad guy for ruining the ride. When in reality, he ruined it because he's too childish to figure out a better way to get his message across.

That's what I'm hearing.

Not only that, the paper is the paper. It isn't the parks and rec department of the area. So this falls under the "get mad when you encounter real world capitalism".

Paper can do wtf ever they wanna do. Might be not your favorite, but there it is.

Personally I think it's junk to dig up people's past from so many years ago just because they happen to make the news on something totally unrelated. If the guy isn't the current acting "grand wizard" in town, leave him alone if he wants to donate money.

At the same time, choosing the ride to make your political stance is really crappy. I didn't see anywhere where the paper called the ride racist for wanting to donate to the guy. It was about improperly digging dirt on the guy. Which has nothing to do with the bike ride other than the paper/organizers link and somebody who wanted to go rogue.

That's where I am.
It sounds to me like a political statement on the part of the organizers as well. And they chose to express themselves by damaging Ragbrai which has been an important part of the state for a good many years.
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Old 10-17-19, 10:46 AM
  #23  
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I wonder what happens when the routes cross and/or share the parts of the same route. Assuming both rides succeed, it will eventually happen.

They would need great signage and a lot of it to ensure the separate groups stay on "their" route and not have riders end up at the ending town of the "other" ride just because they were following the (wrong) cyclists.

At least the former organizers probably have a jump start as they have the contacts, knowledge, etc.

That said, this seems like a stupid pissing contest to me, all in the name of some PC crap.

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Old 10-18-19, 06:44 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
My big take from all this? Just - think before you act. Maybe even hold your thoughts until you wake up tomorrow.
Hot take there, Benny.

You really dont think the RAGBRAI staff thought before acting? They launched an entire website with a lot of ride details/plans the day resigned. They thought long and hard before acting. They obviously thought for days and weeks before acting.
Whether each of us agrees or disagrees with their decision can be discussed, but everyone should come to the table with the understanding that this wasnt a quick emotional reaction.
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Old 10-18-19, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Over the years, RAGBRAI has become a nice profit center for the Des Moines Register and their corporate owner, Gannett. Each year, it becomes a little more "corporate" and they squeeze the vendors harder and harder for a slice of the pie...
I need to amend my earlier post. Profits from RAGBRAI don't go up to the Register, and to a large extent are re-invested in the ride and distributed to various charities. I spoke out of turn...
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