Fastr Pastr

Greetings all! It's looking like my family and I may be moving for work and I'd be interested in anything you could tell me about living in the Minneapolis - St. Paul area of MN. Especially as a transplant from Cali. It's an exciting prospect but I've never lived anywhere with that kind of winter. I'm interested in lifestyle issues as well as cycling issues.

Thanks for your time. I really appreciate it!

Psimet2001 

You couldn't have picked a better place to learn about winter. Pastr I hope you're not a drinking man....


Actually I find Minneapolis to be a beautiful place with a lot to offer. I wish you and your family the best for your move. I've been through a lot of them and know how stressful they can be.

...moves that is...not families....I've been through a lot of moves....

Pupsocket

Believe it or not, you do get used to weather extremes, but sudden changes are miserable whether very cold or very hot. Winter can be cold, bitterly so. Spring starts out cold and melty/messy, then starts greening up around April. Temps reach 70-90 regularly from late May through August. It's a rare summer with more than 3 weeks of 90°+ days.

We had a week of muggy 95° temps last week. After a large storm came through, it's been mild and pleasant this week, 75-80 and partly cloudy.

The Twin Cities, and Mpls specifically, are known for being bike friendly. That's not something I'm really aware of, maybe since I've always lived here and never known differently. There are plenty of metro trails & rail-trails.

Scot_Gore

I've lived in the Twin Cities most my life, so I grew up with winter and the Minnesota "culture".

I've known lots of warm climate transfers over the year. The most successful ones seem to adapt the Minnesota "value" of "Don't let the weather stop you"...just translate "Don't let the earthquake stop you" into winter.

Find a winter time activity (can even be cycling) and you'll be fine. Sit on your butt and watch the snow, you'll be packing for CA inside 2 years.

Lot's of bike culture here in Minnesota.
QBP, Park Tool, HED, Cycle America, and World Cycling Productions are all based in Minnesota. (Next door is Trek and Waterford as well)
Several large clubs to choose from, TCBC, Hiawatha, and many more.
Lot's of bike infastructure in place, both urban and rural.
Congressman Jim Oberstar, The King of all cycle advocates is a Minnesotan.

Ask more questions.

Scot Gore

CastIron

You're in for some shock. My brother lived in Orange Co. for ~ten years before being re-located back here and finds the contrast miserable.
Some points:

A good portion of the locals have lived here all their life. It's a pretty closed culture and Mn Nice=ICE. A fair portion of my wife's friends (she is native, I'm not) are from grade school. It can be a tough nut to crack. Inbreeding isn't just for hicks. Further, folks here are absolute masters of passive-aggressive modes of social control. 'Excuse me', Sir, and ma'am are actually considered insulting.

Winters here have moderated, but even so I've never gotten used to the lack of sunlight and moisture. By Christmas you get 8 hours of having the sun only kind of up and skin that needs to be dipped in some greasy/waxy crap just to be comfortable.
Summers are worse too. The duration is less than, say, Atlanta but we get the same weather for a few days at a time so you can't acclimate to it.
Really, I'm not burned out at all.

Traffic is worse, too. After spending a week out there I found myself really enjoying how well folks in L.A. drove on clogged freeways. My brother remarked as well. Remember my passive aggressive comment? It shines on our roads.

Now that you're considering exile, it's not all bad by any stretch. The twin cities is a pretty vibrant community with lots of all the good stuff that seems to peg magazine rankings like parks, arts, music, education and such. They also tend to treat cyclists fairly well, even during a snow storm.

Pick your community carefully (like any other large city) and you'll do fine under Scott's adaptation program.

Fastr Pastr

Thanks all...I appreciate it. We're going to be working with the Northern Lights Hockey Team in addition to doing church work. The person who has been recruiting me told me that you really need a reason to be there in order to be accepted into the culture in some situations -- especially the hockey culture.

The advice to adapt or die fits in with what I was thinking. I figure, if we don't move there like it's forever, it won't be. I'm hoping my family and I can really get into winter activities that will make it kind of exciting. Here in sac, those are all elective and due to the costs involved we just don't participate.

Thanks again for the replies. I'm looking forward to riding with you guys and I'm sure I'll have more questions once we visit at the end of the month.

Pupsocket

Don't forget our world-class light rail system. You can conveniently go from the airport to the Mall of America to downtown Minneapolis with all the stopover tourists, and it's only 3x the cost per passenger mile of the average solo car.

</MN nIce>

But what do I care? My taxes are going to Madison, not St. Paul.

CastIron

^^It was mostly federally funded--like the freeways--and has exceeded ridership projections by remarkable amounts. I eagerly await the rail down University Ave linking the two downtowns. It'll dovetail with both my cycling and home value increases nicely, thank-you. Virtually all transit is subsidized in the U.S.

Fastr Pastr

the rails to trails and the bike culture are both pretty exciting. That sounds like a much better situation than some places and maybe better than sacramento, which is improving but I would still rate it at -- ride at your own risk! Still lots of people who don't think bikes belong on the roads at all.

How much are you guys able to ride out doors during the winter? Do you use a beater bike or the same bike year round?

Thanks again for the info. I appreciate it.

CastIron

Winter riding:

I have a hardtail MTB with studded tires that'll go through almost anything. It gets me to work every day in winter. Not exactly my idea of fun, but it works.
I have a CX bike with studded tires for less sloppy conditions and weekend road rides.
In general, once the slop flies, it's unusual for me to bike for more than two hours. Last year I was road cycling until deep into November and back out by February with some regularity. Cold really isn't much of an issue until it's well below zero. Road surface conditions are. They dump a LOT of chemical and sand on the roads, and it doesn't move until spring. It adds up. Come late March every roadie in town is practically in heat. It's palpable on group rides.

The state DOT is truly remarkable about clearing snow off their routes (federal and state highways). Clean pavement from edge to edge in <12 hours is their standard.

Cities and counties (the roads you'll ride) are a bit more spotty, but mainlines are fully useable in 12 hours or less. Until then everyone crawls along and you just bike in the tire ruts at the same speed. Folks just grin and bear it. Unless they get their car towed during a snow emergency (+3" snow, severe and temporary on-street parking restrictions).

Fastr Pastr

My friend had said that the DOT does a killer job of clearing the roads...but the chemicals and sand still become an ongoing issue huh? It sounds like with the right gear and some resilience you can still get out there. I'm so spoiled right now just by virtue of how clear the weather is here...I know I'm going to end up looking back and lamenting that I didn't ride more when the weather would so obviously permit it.

The whole, "sir, ma'am and excuse me" thing sounds similar to here. People don't really go out of their way to exhibit manners and pretty much expect you to be OK with that. Terms of respect like sir and ma'am are unusual except in business situations. Here in Sac, people are pretty much expected to mind their own business. Still, I'm not completely sure what you meant by Psimet2001 -- That was hilarious.



Thanks again!

Nickel

Weird social things and people? Yes

I love the winters because everyone stays active during the winters. It's nice to have people enjoy and accept the cold instead of just complaining. Pick up a broom and try broomball or skate on one of the many free ice rinks (which is still amazing to me). The cycling is great, are you more road or mountain or ..?

Pupsocket

I used to downhill ski, though it became less of a priority as time marched on. I still get out on cross country skis now and then, and the Domestic Associate and I go snow-tubing every now and then. Fun to stuff snow down her back and get it in my face in return.

D3V1N

One of my favorite things to do is right after an ice storm before the roads have been cleared put on the ice skates to skate around the residential areas. Although the right conditions for that don't happen too often.

solveg

I've heard the thing about how "we all made out friends in grade school and have never seen the need for more" but I don't believe it. A lot has to do with how you come in. If you get involved in groups who are doing something or have a mission and you're reliable and easy to be with, you'll have all kinds of friends before you know it. If you stay in the house, then you're probably not going to get to know anyone.

Minnesotans (and I know I'm being general here) tend to like quietness in demeanor. We don't like bragging, or people who are loud or argumentative. I have no* idea how Jess Ventura got elected, except that people don't really like facades either, and a vote for Jesse was apparently a vote for "realness".

Don't judge people by the way we dress... we're pretty casual and practical here.

Now hockey... well, I'm not quite sure the reasons why you're moving here, but if you have kids playing hockey it will cost you a fortune. For some reason they stopped skating outside and ice time is expensive. On the other hand, you will have an instant group of friends, as long as your kid stays on the team. I miss the old days of kid's hockey, when it wasn't such a "thing".

We haven't had a "winter" for about 10 years. I've kept track because I bought a dogsled 10 years ago. They've been very mild for a long time. This year, at least, we got the traditional week or two of -20 temps. There's nothing wrong with staying in with a roaring fireplace, but if it's -10 or above, try to get outside. Dress in layers, and spend good money on outerwear. If you start winterizing yourself in October, then Jan won't seem bad at all. If you wait until Feb to take up snowshoeing, then you'll be in shock.

Carry a survival kit in the car in the winter. The news will go into detail on it in the fall. In the summer, carry an extra swimsuit in the car, because you'll want it at the most surprising times. There's a lake or pond almost every block in some areas, it seems like.

Um, don't eat the fish.

In blizzards, check on the old people in the neighborhood and see if they need anything. Many neighborhoods have informal "tasks" someone is assigned to do in severe weather.

Pick the right neighborhood.

Don't make fun of anyone... we don't like that very much and will remember it a long time. Unless it's at the expense of Iowa.

sparklingrobots

I moved here after living in NM all my life in 2001. I find Minneapolis to be really bike friendly--I didn't really think it was possible not to have a car, but the bus system combined with a bike is a really killer combination, imo.

Don't worry about Minnesotans--even if you don't like them, there are lots of transplants in the Cities. And, the Minnesotans are really pretty nice, even if they take a while to warm up.

As far as winter goes, you can always cope with the cold by putting on more clothes, but you can't really help the fact that daylight is in limited supply. Moving from sunny Albuquerque was hard, but mostly because I didn't realize that I would be at work while the sun is up and then spending my free time in the dark. The good news is you can talk about how hardcore you are compared to all your friends elsewhere, and it's true. Sometimes the only thing that gets me through a bitterly cold day is the smug satisfaction that living in MN is really hardcore. I'm gearing up for my first year-round bike commute this winter, so I can't say how it'll be, but the Cities clear the roads quickly and effectively. So that's nice. And, as mentioned earlier, people go outside all the time here--in the winter due to cabin fever and in the summer due to an appreciation of the priceless warm months.

I live here because it's one of very few places where I can find paid work as an independent, experimental choreographer. The arts thrive here, people like supporting them... there is a lot to see and do (and eat!) here. If you visit, pm me and I'd be happy to recommend a few places to see.

Fastr Pastr

I really appreciate the insights. My wife, two of our children and I are coming to visit this weekend and meet most of the decision makers regarding our opportunity. So, we'll see! Five years ago I couldn't really see myself moving from Sac. I live within about a mile and a half of where I grew up and I'm pretty entrenched in the community. But, my perspective has really changed and I'm excited about a new situation. I'm particularly excited about a different kind of influence on my kids.

Again, your insights and openness have been much appreciated. I'm looking forward to meeting you guys and turning the cranks together.

DougG

I live in the greater Detroit area, so similar in some ways to MN but quite a bit milder winters (at least lately). I would personally find it difficult to not live in a "four seasons" kind of climate. It keeps activities fresh when you put things away for a few months at a time and take them out when the season rolls around again. Heck, I even enjoy the first few lawn mowings each Spring!

The only thing I would change is that winter lasts a bit too long. There's a period from about March to mid-May when the snow is gone, so no X-C skiing, but it's also too cold and sloppy for most outdoor activities. The only thing that I do consistently all year is run, and of course that's a lot different in winter vs. summer conditions. Winter's also a good time to keep your bikes indoors, buy new goodies and install them, and plan all your big rides for the next season.

If your kids are young, one really great new thing they have to look forward to are "snow days". Those are unplanned days off from school when a blizzard hits. Around our house, that always meant staying cozied up inside with a fire going in the fireplace, and maybe baking fresh bread or cookies. Great fun!

ultimatekiwi

Cross-country skiing is definitely something you should look into. It's a great workout of everything in your entire body, and it's pretty fun too! It takes a while to get used to the motions, and the demands on your body, but it's worth it. There's at least one club around here that I know of that's a "ski during winter/bike the other half of the year" club, but I haven't looked at it too much. By the way, I just graduated from High School, and I've been here since I was 6. I moved from Australia too, which certainly was a little warmer. I have a question for you: Have you ever been outside when it's snowing? I'm just wondering what you California folks are like, weather-wise.

CastIron: "Further, folks here are absolute masters of passive-aggressive modes of social control."

Haha! So true! People here certainly have a certain way of communicating without saying a word. FastrPastr, one thing you should check out (if only because it's a funny broadcast) is "Prairie Home Companion," with Garrison Keillor. It'll give you a laugh (maybe), or at least show you a glimpse of a typical Minnesotan sense of humor, and some (slightly) exaggerated typical Minnesoootan personalities. Another book is "How to talk Minnesotan," which, again, is meant for comic relief, but is true. Once you've been here for any appreciable amount of time, it's funny.
Good luck!

Fastr Pastr

Thank you so much for the tips. I've been told I should check out "Prairie Home Companion" broadcasts. Would any of you recommend the movie?

As for being outside when it's snowing -- I live in the San Juaquin/Sacramento Valley where very slushy snow that will not stick to the ground drops for about 15 minutes every nine or ten years. BUT, I have had the good fortune to be in the mountains when it's snowing and I lived for part of a winter in Reno, NV where it snowed and stuck pretty well! I'm really not acclimated culturally or otherwise to the reality of living with snow and very cold temps but they aren't completely foreign to me.

I love the idea of adopting a snow outdoor activity and then relying on cycling in the warmer months. I think that'd be a recipe for success.

Thanks again! I really appreciate all the input.

the bandit

I lived in the Macalester-Groveland neighborhood in St. Paul for several years. That is a great neighborhood. The Twin Cities are one of the very best places to live in my opinion. It is just an easygoing place with a lot of interesting food and culture. Most people can have a very high quality of life there. I also think it is a bike friendly place.

Minneapolis has more "urban" areas and St. Paul is quieter and greener. First you have to decide which city you want to live in. Then think about neighborhoods.

At the risk of belaboring the point, you really need to recognize that you are not just moving somewhere with four seasons and snow. The winter is no joke. It will start early, end late, the snow will be on the ground forever, it will be dark, and it can get brutally cold. I live in Chicago now and there is no comparison whatsoever. That said, the people who can tolerate the winter can thrive all year, and the springtime brings out an explosion of activity and joy.

I don't think it is hard to make Minnesotan friends. In fact I found that easier than in other big cities.

The biggest downside is that awful NFL team. But the Packers come to town once a year, so buck up.

Fastr Pastr

Bandit et al - Thanks for shooting me straight. My wife and I will be visiting this weekend and we should know by the time we're heading home on the 26th what the plan is. If we move there, I know it will test and refine us. Hopefully we can adapt and thrive. I'll keep you posted.

c4Pr0

Traffic sucks sometimes, but thats a given wherever you live, the extremes are gonna be ****ty for you for the first two years, just remember to wear sunglasses outside in the winter if you're not used to the snow (you can become what is known as snowblind) Wear the proper stuff when you go outside, if you're not used to it. But i think The Bandit is making it sound more extreme than it is. Some years its ****ty, some its really nice, however, we've been had a nice little spell or decent weather over the past 5 or 6 years.


But seriously, if you're up here, shoot me an email, i'd be happy to meet you guys and help you out.

ZeRinger

I lived in the Twin Cities for a while and still get up there from time to time. I'd be happy to help you out. Any idea what part of the metro you'd be working in? MPLS does have a pretty nice trail system although not all of it is good for roadies like me. ;-)

Shoot me a PM with any specific questions you might have.

Cheers,

Fastr Pastr

We've been visiting this week and have spent most of our time in Bloomington. We did get into the city on Sunday for a Twins game and that was really cool. I've seen a lot of cyclists - especially around Minnehaha falls. Today we went out by Bush lake (I think it was, nice playground for little kids) and I saw a TON of killer trails that would really suit road riding.

The community of Bloomington is really beautiful, amazing trees and almost no litter or graffiti anywhere. I also don't see much of a disparity between the different areas of town. Even when an area has obviously nicer homes, you don't see much difference in the way the lawns are kept or in the general level of care for the homes. I have to say, it's a breath of fresh (although humid) air compared to Sacramento.

I will definitely follow up on your offers for contact as time moves on and plans unfold. At this point it really looks like my family will be relocating here and that's becoming a very exciting prospect.