Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Hybrid Bicycles
Reload this Page >

Set me straight and convince me to get a hybrid please

Notices
Hybrid Bicycles Where else would you go to discuss these fun, versatile bikes?

Set me straight and convince me to get a hybrid please

Old 05-07-15, 01:46 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Set me straight and convince me to get a hybrid please

Mountain biking appears to be so damn expensive. There's the bike, the helmet, the bike rack, a slick set of tires, possibly pedals, maintenance for beating the hell out of it on rough terrain, etc. It seems never ending. It's my first bike. I have no frickin idea what kind of riding I want to do. I think I like the thought of mountain biking more than actually doing it. I may love it, but I also may love riding on the road. Am I an idiot for thinking that when you really have no idea what you want and which riding you want to do in the long run it's best to get a solid hybrid? I know I don't want to fly down a mountain constantly throwing myself off the bike and having to miss work all because I want to look like a BMX guy. I just want to some on SOME terrain. I'll never do jumps and fly off boulders in Utah.

All I know is that I want to ride, have fun, get some great exercise riding uphill, and get offroad sometimes. I want a hybrid, but I'm trying to convince myself on why I should get one over a mountain bike. I am 29 and do have an adventurous side so going out for a 30 minute joyride through the neighborhood at 10 mph isn't what interests me. Maybe it'll always be recreational (doubt it), or maybe I'll love or hate the road and strongly lean towards one or the other and be more competitive about it. I do not want to spend in excess of $1k just to get started. I can afford it, but it doesn't seem logical when you have no clue what kind of rider you are or want to do.

So, Steve Cay, Wanderer, and the other great hybrid posters, convince this lost poster on why he needs a hybrid over a mountain bike. If you feel like I need a mountain bike then let me know that too. Set my ass straight fellas. It's fun, but confusing as hell.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 02:06 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
intransit1217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Kenosha , Wi
Posts: 1,231

Bikes: 2 Masi giramondo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I think in your case either a dual sport or a cyclocross bike might be better than a rigid hybrid.

More info on the type(s) of off road you would like to be able to handle.

Also, many of the accessories you mentioned are the same for any bike. primarily, a helmet.
intransit1217 is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 02:24 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by intransit1217
I think in your case either a dual sport or a cyclocross bike might be better than a rigid hybrid.

More info on the type(s) of off road you would like to be able to handle.

Also, many of the accessories you mentioned are the same for any bike. primarily, a helmet.
Oh I know, but with the maintenance because of how it'll be handled and the extra set of tires, plus $200-$300 more for the bike is what I mean by extra cost.

I don't need crazy hard terrain. I know I won't be doing jumps of any kind. I just want to get offroad a little and enjoy for bike for the dual purpose that it's suppose to serve.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 02:25 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
Posts: 191

Bikes: 1995 Giant Yukon, 2012 Giant TCR Comp 1, 2014 Giant Anyroad

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you prefer speed over doing jumps and prefer a mix of road and hard packed trail, then a hybrid is probably what you are looking for. Try out a few if you can to see what is more comfortable. If it fits well and makes you want to ride, it's the bike for you. Trek, Giant and Specialized are a few companies that make good solid bikes that won't break the budget. Avoid department store bikes if you can as they often have sub-par frames and components and don't offer any after sale service.
Canadian_giant is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 02:32 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The LBS knows I'm torn on which to get too. It's either the Specialized Crosstrail Disc or Rockhopper. Those are the only two. Paid for Crosstrail Disc, LBS called and said they were out of stock until now. I then ordered the Rockhopper since the paid for hybrid was out of stock, but they said that I can always stick with the hybrid if I choose to. Honestly when I ride them both I don't tell a TON of difference. I don't know enough about bikes yet to be able to tell the difference in any components. Obviously the hybrid is a little easier on the road, but I knew that before I rode it.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 05:19 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,207

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 575 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times in 482 Posts
Id get the Rockhopper.

There is nothing the Crosstrail can do that the Rockhopper cannot whereas the Rockhopper will be better offroad. With narrower tires, the Rockhopper will be just as good on the road as the Crosstrail. Wheel clearance and fork will limit the offroadability of the Crosstrail.
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 05:23 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 88

Bikes: 1999 Giant Rincon; 2009 Mercier Corvus Al; 2012 Trek Marlin; 2016 trek FX 7.5 when available

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by madurotiger
The LBS knows I'm torn on which to get too. It's either the Specialized Crosstrail Disc or Rockhopper. Those are the only two. Paid for Crosstrail Disc, LBS called and said they were out of stock until now. I then ordered the Rockhopper since the paid for hybrid was out of stock, but they said that I can always stick with the hybrid if I choose to. Honestly when I ride them both I don't tell a TON of difference. I don't know enough about bikes yet to be able to tell the difference in any components. Obviously the hybrid is a little easier on the road, but I knew that before I rode it.
I answered your question for myself when I started riding. I looked at where I could bike without having to transport my bike on a car rack to get to it and how often I thought I would realistically be able to ride and when. For me, I might make it home for a short ride after work once or twice a week and then also have a few hours on the weekend. I don't have time to load up a mountain bike and take it to a mountain bike trail, unload, ride, load back up and dirve home. I knew due to time constraints that I would be riding close to home. What is close to home for me is some road work, a paved greenway that I can cycle to, and a few hard packed dirt trails that are part of the greenway. the logical choice for me was a hybrid. A mountain bike would have been just too heavy after pedaling 10 miles.

The bottom line is you have to figure out what your "routine" of where and when you are going to ride and that will help you decide.
swoodjr1 is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 05:24 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 263

Bikes: 2013 Trek 8.4 DS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
LOL, this is one of the most tortured bike purchasing processes I think I have seen

You know the drill, if you want to do mostly technical mountain trails, get a mountain bike. If you want to do roads and be efficient and competitive at it, get a road bike. If you want to do roads and perhaps some hard packed park trail once in a while, with a more leisurely posture get a fitness hybrid.

But if you want to do both roads, and "reasonable" trails with a single bike, you won't go wrong with a dual sport hybrid such as the Crosstrail Disk. And I highly recommend splurging a bit and going for the Crosstrail Sport Disk to get the hydraulic brakes and upgraded group set.

And I guess you learned your lesson from your post ... technical mountain biking takes a lot of skill, practice, and stamina to be able to enjoy it, do it well, and not constantly hurt yourself! I remember when a group of people at work used to hit the ski mountains in summer with their mountain bike. They usually missed work the next day, and then came in all injured and limping!

My routine with my Trek Dual Sport (which I try and do almost daily), is a 16 mile round trip. 4 miles from my driveway on the road/paved bike paths to get to the trail. 4 miles through reasonable forest up-and-down trails with some wood plank bridges over swamps in between. Then I arrive at a beach on the lake, sit on a pier and watch the boats go by for a few minutes. Head back on a single track with rocks and tree root, end up back on the road and get home. One bike does it all well, I average about 15mph through it all. And I get variety and a change of scenery and pace on the same ride. I don't throw myself on rocks, I don't injure myself, my bike still looks brand new and does not need to be constantly repaired, and I feel great when I get back both physically and mentally! I don't have to "transport my bike to the mountains", and anybody in reasonable shape who has ridden a bike should be able to get into such a routing in no time!

If this sounds good, go for a Dual Sport Hybrid! Worst case if you regret it after a year or two, a newer Specialized should have good resale value on craigslist!

If however if you love more extreme sports, you want to constantly challenge yourself, you consider sport without pain and high risk of injury too wimpy, and want to constantly master new techniques, tricks, and skills ... perhaps technical mountain biking is more for you.

Bottom line:
If you get a Rockhopper and "I think I like the thought of mountain biking more than actually doing it", you will end up with a lousy road bike and hardly use it.
If on the other hand "All I know is that I want to ride, have fun, get some great exercise riding uphill, and get offroad sometimes.", that is what the Crosstrail is all about.

Not trying to convince you either way, you know best what you will probably end up doing, get the right tool for maximum enjoyment!

Last edited by steve_cay; 05-07-15 at 05:33 PM.
steve_cay is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 05:35 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by steve_cay
LOL, this is one of the most tortured bike purchasing processes I think I have seen

You know the drill, if you want to do mostly technical mountain trails, get a mountain bike. If you want to do roads and be efficient and competitive at it, get a road bike. If you want to do roads and perhaps some hard packed park trail once in a while, with a more leisurely posture get a fitness hybrid.

But if you want to do both roads, and "reasonable" trails with a single bike, you won't go wrong with a dual sport hybrid such as the Crosstrail Disk. And I highly recommend splurging a bit and going for the Crosstrail Sport Disk to get the hydraulic brakes and upgraded group set.

And I guess you learned your lesson from your post ... technical mountain biking takes a lot of skill, practice, and stamina to be able to enjoy it, do it well, and not constantly hurt yourself! I remember when a group of people at work used to hit the ski mountains in summer with their mountain bike. They usually missed work the next day, and then came in all injured and limping!

My routine with my Trek Dual Sport (which I try and do almost daily), is a 16 mile round trip. 4 miles from my driveway on the road/paved bike paths to get to the trail. 4 miles through reasonable forest up-and-down trails with some wood plank bridges over swamps in between. Then I arrive at a beach on the lake, sit on a pier and watch the boats go by for a few minutes. Head back on a single track with rocks and tree root, end up back on the road and get home. One bike does it all well, I average about 15mph through it all. And I get variety and a change of scenery and pace on the same ride. I don't throw myself on rocks, I don't injure myself, my bike still looks brand new and does not need to be constantly repaired, and I feel great when I get back both physically and mentally! I don't have to "transport my bike to the mountains", and anybody in reasonable shape who has ridden a bike should be able to get into such a routing in no time!

If this sounds good, go for a Dual Sport Hybrid! Worst case if you regret it after a year or two, a newer Specialized should have good resale value on craigslist!

If however if you love more extreme sports, you want to constantly challenge yourself, you consider sport without pain and high risk of injury too wimpy, and want to constantly master new techniques, tricks, and skills ... perhaps technical mountain biking is more for you.

Bottom line:
If you get a Rockhopper and "I think I like the thought of mountain biking more than actually doing it", you will end up with a lousy road bike and hardly use it.
If on the other hand "All I know is that I want to ride, have fun, get some great exercise riding uphill, and get offroad sometimes.", that is what the Crosstrail is all about.

Not trying to convince you either way, you know best what you will probably end up doing, get the right tool for maximum enjoyment!
Perfect, and I apologize for all the questions. I'm truly having fun learning so much.

When you say single track, explain the single track you're doing on your Trek DS.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 05:55 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 263

Bikes: 2013 Trek 8.4 DS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by madurotiger
When you say single track, explain the single track you're doing on your Trek DS.
Nothing crazy, perhaps something like this (from a quick google image selection):

steve_cay is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:00 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by steve_cay
Nothing crazy, perhaps something like this (from a quick google image selection):

This is exactly the kind of stuff I want to go on. This and fire roads or something like in the picture below.

madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:01 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Steve, if you or someone else doesn't mind, post a pic of terrain you don't want to go on with a DS hybrid. This is really clearing it up for me now.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:10 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 263

Bikes: 2013 Trek 8.4 DS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by madurotiger
Steve, if you or someone else doesn't mind, post a pic of terrain you don't want to go on with a DS hybrid. This is really clearing it up for me now.
I would not take my Dual Sport here! But perhaps somebody with much better skill than me will say no problem





steve_cay is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:12 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I never was planning or am even interested in rocky stuff like that
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:15 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,207

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 575 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times in 482 Posts
Nice Klein

I think there may be too much emphasis on labels

Im looking at two 700c/29" wheeled, disc braked, aluminum hardtails, suspension forks, and low-mid components.

The Rockhopper has hydraulic brakes, more wheel clearance, and hopefully more sophisticated fork internals. Its not the best on the road, but there is no difference between it and the hybrid bike, both being 700c wheels with similar platforms.

Offroad, however, is where the hybrid will reach its limit before the MTb will.

Even on the road, a suspension fork with more adjustments will function better than one with less adjustments

The bike is just the platform; so if you dont want to enter a DH competition, dont.

Performance-wise, there is nothing to choose between a modern 29" hardtail MTB and a "DS" hybrid. Hybrids win out in flexibility (fenders, racks, etc.) and affordability however.

If I were OP, I would be looking at a fully rigid MTB or a cross bike, depending on bar preference (flat or drop)

Last edited by DorkDisk; 05-07-15 at 07:05 PM.
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:24 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Notgrownup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Snow Hill NC
Posts: 872

Bikes: Trek Madone 2.1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cyclecross
Notgrownup is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 06:51 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 263

Bikes: 2013 Trek 8.4 DS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by madurotiger
I never was planning or am even interested in rocky stuff like that
Rocks aside, more stuff I would not do with Dual Sport:

And BTW, don't forget you can alway run two sets of tires, to improve both the "road" and "off-road" capabilities of a Dual Sport. Personally I could not be bothered, so I just chose terrain that is befitting of the capabilities of my bike and myself!








steve_cay is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 07:10 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yea, it's pretty clear I don't need a mountain bike. I don't care much about doing stuff like that. It clears it up pretty well for me. Thanks Steve.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 07:12 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As far as cyclocross bikes go, aren't they really expensive?
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 07:18 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,207

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 575 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by madurotiger
Yea, it's pretty clear I don't need a mountain bike. I don't care much about doing stuff like that. It clears it up pretty well for me. Thanks Steve.
I think you got the wrong impression of what mountain biking is
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 07:23 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DorkDisk
I think you got the wrong impression of what mountain biking is
The pictures above, no? Obvious noob, I know.
madurotiger is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 07:33 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,207

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 575 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times in 482 Posts
Originally Posted by madurotiger
The pictures above, no? Obvious noob, I know.
Most mountain bikers ride on the same trails that people hike on.

There are several branches of mountainbiking, downhilling gets the most press due to the radical jumps and photos

For most people, downhills are great fun but you have to ride up to ride down. This can mean a three hour granny gear climb followed by a 10 minute descent.

You make it as hard as you want to. See a berm? Walk it, roll over it, catch some air, do a tail-whip. Whatever, you feel comfortable doing.

Mountainbiking is riding your bike in the wilderness. I see it as more of a contrast to "urban" biking
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 07:46 PM
  #23  
On Your Left
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times in 1,187 Posts
A Dual Sport is also not a road bike. While you can ride it on the road don't plan on doing any century rides.

I recently took my DS on a 20 mile ride and was rather tired after. Getting back on my road bike today, 40 miles was a breeze.
GlennR is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 08:22 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 263

Bikes: 2013 Trek 8.4 DS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
To clear any confusion, the pictures I posted are not what I consider "typical mountain biking", but in answer to the question "where would I not go with my DS hybrid". If you want to just get out in the wilderness on packed and groomed hiking trails (what most people do with their mountain bike), a mountain bike or DS hybrid will both work well. The DS will excel on roads (compared to mountain bike), but as oldnslow points out, a road bike will obviously better it. The mountain bike will excel when the trail gets rough.

And as for the comentary (including in some of your other threads) that the DS type bikes have a similar platform to a mountain bike, therefore they should be similar on the road ... (well I don't agree) but also note that a good part of why mountain bikes suck on the road is the wide knobby tires that they come with. If you want a collection of tires, narrow slicks on a mountain bike can make it somewhat road worthy ... And mountain bike tires on a Dual Sport will make it that much more trail worthy. As a compromise, a Dual Sport comes with wheels/tires that can already handle both decently (but not excellently).
steve_cay is offline  
Old 05-07-15, 09:13 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,207

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 575 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times in 482 Posts
Stock tires should not be considered as a decider between purchasing a bicycle IMO. They wear out with use and you can always find a better tire for your specific conditions.

While rim width on the MTB could limit some pure road tires, frame width on the DS could limit fat tires. Frankly either one could accomodate modern slicks or semislicks. The MTB is less limited than the DS when it comes to tire choice.

To be honest, the Rockhopper wouldnt be ideal for the riding portrayed in the pictures above either. Even on the XC course, the suspension would pack in, and the lack of rebound would make you wish you were on the rigid Klein in the above post.
DorkDisk is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.