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-   -   What would you value more: hydro disc brakes or carbon fork? (https://www.bikeforums.net/hybrid-bicycles/1029900-what-would-you-value-more-hydro-disc-brakes-carbon-fork.html)

KC_Crunch 09-15-15 05:29 AM

What would you value more: hydro disc brakes or carbon fork?
 
At LBS there's a 2015 Trek 7.4FX in my size on closeout. It retailed new at $880 but they're asking $760.

When the 2016s come in they're going to retail new at $760.

The difference? The 2015 has aluminum fork but hydro disc brakes and the 2016s will have carbon fork but v-brakes.

So for the exact same price, which one would you guys spring for?


(this is just opinion gathering -- not a request to tell me what to get...I'm leaning toward the 2015 closeout)

AlmostTrick 09-15-15 06:36 AM

The 2015. I prefer disc brakes and non CF forks.

Lt Stonez 09-15-15 06:53 AM

Lots of good deals out eny minut, am sure you will find a bike with H.disc breakes and carbon fork for that money. This one Specialized Bicycle Components
am sure you can get on sale for that money.

Good luck mate

DorkDisk 09-15-15 07:00 AM

For dry road riding, v brakes will be more than sufficient and a bit lighter.

But if I had to wait a long time without a bike, Id get the other one

Hydraulic disks are great but can be overkill for most casual dry weather riding

Id like to hear some real world feeback on modern Al forks by experienced riders

2702 09-15-15 07:03 AM

Hydraulic disks are worth it. One time I was flying down a hill and a car did not see me and almost t-boned me. I swear the extra stopping power of disks saved me. Either if its a foot or so extra stop power it did the job.

ColdCase 09-15-15 07:14 AM

There are hydros and there are hydros. I've test rode several bikes this spring. The shimano hydro discs were much better performers on the street for a hybrid than any v brake, rain or shine. No adjustments or tinkering, quiet, smooth, great brake feel, stoping power, one finger pull. It makes for a much more satisfying ride to me. So much better for technical riding. So much so that I would consider a bike with shimano hydros (or better) to be a minimum requirement. You can certainly ride a hybrid with v brakes, or no brakes. A carbon fork is down in the noise in comparison to the brakes, IMHO.

There may be a few "light weight" applications were v-brakes may be better, where one prefers to give up some brake performance for weight. Takes more skill to use v brakes well.

Grey. 09-15-15 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by KC_Crunch (Post 18165047)
The difference? The 2015 has aluminum fork but hydro disc brakes and the 2016s will have carbon fork but v-brakes.

The 7.4 and the 7.4 Disc are two different models. The 2015 non-disc 7.4 has a carbon fork and standard rim brakes just like the 2016 model. What you are buying is the 7.4 Disc which has since been re-named the Allant 7.4 and has the same 880$ retail price. http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...ant/allant_7_4 Just some information for you.

manc 09-15-15 08:22 AM

Hydraulic brakes any day

KC_Crunch 09-15-15 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by Grey. (Post 18165324)
The 7.4 and the 7.4 Disc are two different models. The 2015 non-disc 7.4 has a carbon fork and standard rim brakes just like the 2016 model. What you are buying is the 7.4 Disc which has since been re-named the Allant 7.4 and has the same 880$ retail price. Allant 7.4 - Trek Bicycle Just some information for you.

Thanks for clarifying! I was under the impression it was a "gun to head" decision with hydraulic brakes coming off the FX line...it's great to hear I can actually wait it out until spring if I want.

KC_Crunch 09-15-15 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by Lt Stonez (Post 18165173)
Lots of good deals out eny minut, am sure you will find a bike with H.disc breakes and carbon fork for that money. This one Specialized Bicycle Components
am sure you can get on sale for that money.

Good luck mate

Thanks for the reference. However, it appears the Sirrus Elite Disc offers entry level road-bike-style components, whereas the 7.4 FX Disc (and Allant 7.4) offer nicer than entry level mountain-bike-style components. I think I prefer the latter.

350htrr 09-15-15 11:42 AM

Having owned a quality hydraulic disc bike for 15 years now (Grimeca hydraulic disc brakes) I wouldn't even consider a new bike without it... Having said that, there are hydraulic disc brakes and there are hydraulic disk brakes. Quality counts too... ;) Oh and I wouldn't consider non hydraulic disc either... ;)

ColdCase 09-15-15 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by KC_Crunch (Post 18165665)
Thanks for the reference. However, it appears the Sirrus Elite Disc offers entry level road-bike-style components, whereas the 7.4 FX Disc (and Allant 7.4) offer nicer than entry level mountain-bike-style components. I think I prefer the latter.

It looks like the 7.4s have entry level off road bike components, the specialized components may actually work better. The Trek has better brakes, however.

The riding geometries are a bit different, some like the specialized ride more that Trek, some otherwise, some don't care. Just saying that the difference in rider satisfaction due to geometries may far outweigh any relatively minor differences in components. But if you have already ridden both, never mind.

badger1 09-15-15 12:39 PM

I have both discs and v-brakes. They both work more than adequately.

I once bought and rode a bicycle with an aluminum fork. That lasted about four weeks; never again. Aluminum is a great material for making main frames; it is a lousy material out of which to make rigid forks. I suppose they'd be ok on a fat bike, or on any bike if one is never going to use a tire less than 38 or 40 mm wide.

So, carbon fork or discs? Ideally both; if I had to choose, the former.

KC_Crunch 09-15-15 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by ColdCase (Post 18166231)
It looks like the 7.4s have entry level off road bike components, the specialized components may actually work better. The Trek has better brakes, however.

The riding geometries are a bit different, some like the specialized ride more that Trek, some otherwise, some don't care. Just saying that the difference in rider satisfaction due to geometries may far outweigh any relatively minor differences in components. But if you have already ridden both, never mind.

I have ridden the Trek and loved it -- much more so than the Giant Escape and Roam. I haven't ridden the Specialized yet. My friend has a Sirrus Sport Disc he's willing to let me borrow to try out.

However, I'm a bit confused by you saying the Specialized appears to have better components. Can you explain?

If my understanding of the Shimano hierarchy is correct, it looks like the Trek (with Acera and Deore) has "nicer" stuff than the Specialized (with Sora) may have. Am I interpreting incorrectly?

Shimano MTB Component Hierarchy | ChooseMyBicycle.com

Shimano Road Component Hierarchy | ChooseMyBicycle.com

KC_Crunch 09-15-15 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by badger1 (Post 18166234)
I have both discs and v-brakes. They both work more than adequately.

I once bought and rode a bicycle with an aluminum fork. That lasted about four weeks; never again. Aluminum is a great material for making main frames; it is a lousy material out of which to make rigid forks. I suppose they'd be ok on a fat bike, or on any bike if one is never going to use a tire less than 38 or 40 mm wide.

So, carbon fork or discs? Ideally both; if I had to choose, the former.

In your opinion, what makes aluminum forks lousy? Wasn't sure if it was vibrations/comfort or weight or strength or what. I'm a relative novice, so (1) I have no clue, and (2) I've yet to ride a carbon fork.

badger1 09-15-15 02:50 PM

The fork (rigid or suspension) is the main 'shock absorber' on a conventional diamond-framed bicycle, along with tires/air pressure and, of course, the rider's ability to 'ride light and loose'.

Aluminum forks, to be adequately light and strong, must necessarily be made with a largish cross-section, and not permitted to flex much (due to the nature of the material). That makes them 'rigid' in an undesirable way. Forks made of carbon or steel can be light and adequately strong while still being able to flex in response to road shock -- especially when they are made with tapered/curved blades. So if you hit a square-edged bump, say, with a straight-blade aluminum fork, the impact not absorbed by the tires goes straight up into your hands/arms. Decent carbon/steel forks attenuate that shock a little more effectively. It adds up over the course of a ride.

As I suggested above, the larger volume/lower pressure the tire, the less that difference matters -- but in my experience if you want to ride 32 or 28 tires (let alone 25 or 23), carbon or steel are much better choices for forks. There may be aluminum forks out there that don't jack-hammer one's hands, but I can't be bothered to find out!

dr1445 09-15-15 02:52 PM

i rode the other morning in fog with my rim brake bike, came to an acute angle turn and hit the brakes to slow, nothing, pulled harder and managed to get it slowed before running out of road. it's fall here and early morning rides can often involve fog. i put the rim brake bike in the basement and got out the disc brake bike for the rest of the season. i have crmo and aluminium forks, no carbon, but none them will help stop a bike in adverse conditions.

Grey. 09-15-15 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by dr1445 (Post 18166653)
but none them will help stop a bike in adverse conditions.

Exactly what is adverse about fog that would affect the performance of a rim brake? Rain and mud, sure, but fog?


Originally Posted by KC_Crunch (Post 18166296)
If my understanding of the Shimano hierarchy is correct, it looks like the Trek (with Acera and Deore) has "nicer" stuff than the Specialized (with Sora) may have. Am I interpreting incorrectly?

You're correct. Some would interpret the entry level road groupset as an upgrade over a mid-level mountain bike groupset, i'm skeptical of how much it matters at this level.

KC_Crunch 09-15-15 07:25 PM

Thanks Grey - I'm learning a lot in this thread. You're sort of my sage wizard on this forum. :-)

dr1445 09-15-15 08:07 PM

[QUOTE=Grey.;18167275]Exactly what is adverse about fog that would affect the performance of a rim brake? Rain and mud, sure, but fog?
condensation.

limbot 09-15-15 08:24 PM

On brakes....

All good quality brakes will stop you whether they're rim (cantilever, caliper or U) or disc. The difference tends to be in the feel or modulation.

If you're sensible you'll ride to the conditions and your equipment. Live at 250m so most rides start with some downhill :) Have or have had hydraulic disc, mechanical disk, canti and dual pivot.

Had some issues with cantis on the CX ( no feel or modulation and front fork judder) but new pads, some toe in and some minor adjusting made a huge difference.

The worse ones were the Tektro R312s that came OEM with my road bike (new pads and toe in didn't do what I wanted) Never had a major issue, just that they had absolutely NO feel or modulation . The replacement Shimano 6700s are heaps better.

Hydraulic on a flatbar definitely feel much better and safer going down a steep slippery, wet and muddy downhill than cantis on a drop bar on the same trail :) but road riding......

All brakes will pull you up, maybe slightly differently but if you don't ride based on how the brakes work and the bike you're riding at the time then you're in trouble. :) And don't forget there's cheap rim/disc and expensive rim/disc so you can't really just compare rim to disc.

There's no road ride I know of that I'd only do with hydraulic brakes and not rims ( and that includes some pretty steep descents here in Hobart).

I might not ride as fast, or brake a bit earlier but as I say you compensate for your equipment and conditions :)

The only other thing I'd say is if you are riding often in wet/muddy conditions disc do have a distinct advantage there.

/rant

DorkDisk 09-15-15 09:07 PM

With V brakes and wet rims, you need to feather your brakes before braking so that the pads clear the water from the brake track. This means one full revolution of the wheel before effective braking can occur. There are different pad compounds that work better in the rain, you can add a rim scraper, and some pads have the rear slightly jut out to make toe in easier and to act as a scraper.

Ive ridden and still ride cantis (25 years), Vs( since 1996) , calipers (25 years), and hydraulic discs (10 years). They all stop perfectly fine for road riding. Cantis require more finger effort (often two fingers), Vs considerably less (one finger), and hydros require practically no effort but they can all stop on a dime for road riding.

But yes, Shimano hydraulics are superb, with excellent ergonomics. They do cost more so OP is getting a fairly good deal. If OP wants an all weather bike, you cannot beat hydros. However, Vs are perfectly fine. They offer substantial power (on par with cable disks), one finger braking, and decent modulation. Even the cheapest V brake works amazingly well, something I cannot say about hydraulic disk brakes

My only caveat regarding the bike in question is that Al fork. In the past they had a reputation for overly harsh rides, as did Al frames. Modern hydroformed frames are different, but forks are fairly simple and Im not sure they have benefitted from modern manufacturing techniques as much as frames (which have more elements to work with) have. I do notice that this fork uses a rearward facing dropout which in theory should be more compliant.

2702 09-15-15 10:12 PM

I too think some of the Tetkro Rim Brakes are Horrible feeling. No amount of weight savings over disc could convince me to buy a bike with cheap feeling and working rim brakes.

Grey. 09-15-15 10:58 PM


Originally Posted by dr1445 (Post 18167450)
condensation.

We get plenty of fog here in Indiana and I can say with complete certainty that I have never had enough fog condensation build up on my rims to adversely affect the performance of my brakes.


Originally Posted by 2702 (Post 18167697)
I too think some of the Tetkro Rim Brakes are Horrible feeling. No amount of weight savings over disc could convince me to buy a bike with cheap feeling and working rim brakes.

I will agree about the feel. Few things feel as good on a bike as hydraulic brake levers.

limbot 09-15-15 11:29 PM


Originally Posted by 2702 (Post 18167697)
I too think some of the Tetkro Rim Brakes are Horrible feeling. No amount of weight savings over disc could convince me to buy a bike with cheap feeling and working rim brakes.

Cost me less than $100AUD and an hours worth of my time to replace the OEM Tektro R312s with Shimano Ultegra 6700 calipers on the roadie and boy was that money and time well spent !!!!


Originally Posted by Grey. (Post 18167755)
I will agree about the feel. Few things feel as good on a bike as hydraulic brake levers.

My way improved rim brakes aren't as "good" as the hydraulics (and they're not Shimano but Hayes) on the DS 8.4 but I feel much better and safer now !

Happy with the rim brakes on the roadie now and where previously with the Tektros if someone had said they'd swap me EXACTLY the same road bike with one with Hydraulic discs at time I'dve said "yes", now with the Ultegras on it's be "no" :)

As I say I ride my roadie very differently and in different environments to the hybrid and ensure I "compensate" for these hardware differences for my own safety!

Sorry for digression @KC_Crunch, though it does relate to your original question of rim v disc :)

IMHO all good brakes will work well if setup correctly be it rim or disc. After that it becomes either a "specialised" requirement like riding in really wet/muddy conditions or a personal thing for feel and modulation :)

And forks, sorry I've only ever had carbon or suspension :)

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