coominya

I have 3 rings on my current MB so only 8 cogs out back to select from but I'll take your advice. If I can get it to work for me on 8 then 11 should be a walk in the park. I have since read a few articles on singles and one made the point that I would be forced to increase my muscle strength to work within the limited range which would be a nice side benefit.

I have used MT's for fitness for over a decade but I don't go off-road. I just like the stability they provide both from their geometry and their tire size, but it's the rigid fork that drew me to this particular bike. Who needs suspension when you have knees and hips lol.

orbano

Anyone?

Haffster

My (very newbie) opinion: I think this category tries to be a bit of everything but, by necessity, has to lean more one way or the other. I liked the Talon a lot, but I thought it leaned more towards being a mountain bike (or perhaps a more aggressive light trail bike). The Toughroad, I thought, was a better compromise in that it works reasonably well on both terrains as equipped but with a change of tires alone I got it to behave quite nicely on paved roads (which I do more of) and still be reasonably decent on light trails.

My own (again, very newbie) sense is that components matter but perhaps not too too much in the category we are talking about. I'm glad I got the Toughroad because it great for what I do - and I think that's important: to figure out your compromise well.

coominya

I don't really know how to compare them for price. One is a MB the other an entry level CX?

LHawes

I rode the SLR2 the other day and didn't like a few items (shifters, seat, grips) and thought that the upgrade to the SLR1 might be worth it instead of throwing money at a brand new bike. The post above has, however shed a little light on what I might actually have to upgrade to my liking, and the cost, versus the $430 additional cost for the SLR1. I don't need racks today but I do like the better brakes and shifters of the SLR1. Not sure about the 2 x 10 of the SLR1 versus the 3 x 9 SLR2 but should learn more tomorrow when I test ride the SLR1.

Still having a hard time buying a new bike and upgrading it immediately. Thoughts?

ColonelSanders

This may have been covered already in another thread, but just about everyone upgrades the saddle and pedals, and quite often the grips almost immediately.


Even stems get often changed for different lengths and angles(I did this).


Whilst it is not unheard of to change out shifters and derailleurs, most people are not looking to do that when they buy a new bike.


I was happy enough to go with the running gear of the SLR 2 because I wanted some "test data" on what it was like to have a modern triple crank and have low gearing like 22/34.


So far I am leaning to thinking the triple crank is not needed, simply because if I can't take a hill in 32/34, I don't enjoy trying to take it in even lower gears on the small front chain ring.


Now this may be due to me not being fit enough, but I find I get worn out by going so slowly, for so long, up hills in 22/34.


I actually have in a cupboard at home, brand new Shimano XT double chainring cranks(40/28), XT gear levers, XT derailleurs and cassette(11-34) to put on my Toughroad SLR 2 at some point, but for now I am happy enough to collect more data on the stock running gear.

coominya

That was clever col, the #2 is the same as the #1 aside from the gearing which you save hundreds on and now get to put on gearing that is arguably as good or better than the #0 will have

orbano

One is a bycicle, the other is... a bycicle. Frame, drivetrain, wheels, etc. The main differences between this and a cheaper MB are the fork and the frame, so imho it is valid to compare them to see what you get for your money (also a shared attribute is the fact that you have to give money for them)

ColonelSanders

Even if one wanted to junk the derailleurs, shifters, crank, cassette & chain, on the SLR 2, if you buy from the right online stores, it is cheaper to replace it all with XT gear and end up spending less than a SLR 0 and have arguably a superior bike.

The SLR 0 does come with better brakes and wheels, but I changed my wheels anyway to a more robust 40 spoke version, so that is why when I was able to get my SLR 2 for $900AUD, I jumped at the chance.

When I buy a Surly LHT frame next year, I will then transfer the current SLR 2 running gear to it and install the XT stuff on my SLR 2.

LHawes

If this is true then upgrading the SLR2 makes sense. Can one really purchase all of those items for less than the $430 difference in price?

LHawes

This is a good point as I haven't ridden modern equipment in quite a while and am really not quite sure what I want at this point.

ColonelSanders

I was comparing the cost of upgrading the SLR 2, to the SLR 0(which is available in Australia, but not the USA), however it is also interesting to compare it to the SLR 1, which is widely available in many countries.

In Australia, the RRP of the Toughroads is as follows:
SLR 2 = $1,299AUD
SLR 1 = $1,699AUD
SLR 0 = $1,999AUD

Now with the bike guy I go to, he would install the below for approx $100 - $120AUD($77-$92US)

So I could spend $120+$433 = $533AUD/$409US to upgrade my SLR 2 to such an extent, it would overall be a better bike than the SLR 0 & SLR 1.

All these components are from the German online store Bike Discount-de

102.44Euro XT Crankset 10-speed FC-M785 40/28T 175mm
..33.57Euro XT Cassette 10-speed CS-M771 11-36
..20.92Euro XT Front Derailleur FD-M786A Down Swing 2 x 10
..41.93Euro XT Rear Derailleur 10-speed RD-M781 SGS
..60.42Euro XT Gear Shifters Set Rapidfire SL-M780 2-/3x10
..15.04Euro KMC X10-93 Chain 10-speed
..22.95Euro Delivery Charge

297.27Euro or 332.51USD or 432.89AUD

1 Euro = 1.12USD
1 Euro = 1.46AUD

LHawes

Thanks so much for taking the time to post, it is very much appreciated but I have to be honest and admit I'm a bit lost. There's a $400AUD price difference between the SLR1 and the SLR2 and if one were to spend $533AUD on a 10 speed gear set, which the SLR1 already has, the SLR2 would be a better bike than the SLR1 and the SLR0?

Are the new XT components that much better than the stock Sram components that the SLR1 already has? The SLR1 also has better brakes than the SLR2 as well?

I really wish I knew more about the specific components but it seems like a bit of a wash to me, but more money for the upgraded SLR2. Missing something and I apologize.

I really hope that I do not come off as someone trying to pretend they are expert in such matters as I am surely not, but the logic is still not quite sinking in.

It must be that the XT stuff is far superior to the stock Sram stuff on the SLR1?

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us...specifications

ColonelSanders

LHawes, are you in the USA or Australia?

I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been and was largely explaining why for me, the SLR 2 made the most sense, but it may not for everyone else.

Firstly, I wouldn't recommend that someone buy a SLR 2 and upgrade it, instead of buying a SLR 1, unless you had a definite use for the running gear on the SLR 2.
.
Secondly, it is largely because I always planned to take the running gear off my SLR 2 and transfer it to a Surly LHT, that I bought the SLR 2, knowing I would then be free to upgrade the SLR 2, to my heart's content.

Thirdly, the Sram stuff on the SLR 1 is decent, but it is more like Deore level in Sram's family tree, which is why I believe the XT upgrades would overall make an updated SLR 2, better overall than a SLR 1, despite the SLR 1 having a better braking system. But keep in mind that "better" here doesn't mean a night and day difference, the SLR 1 is still going to be a fine bike.

Fourthly, if you are based in America, you won't have an option of the SLR 0, in the next 12 months or so, at least.

Fifth & final I think the SLR 0 isn't worth the cost and sadly has a lousy colour scheme.

LHawes

I SO appreciate your input and wisdom concerning such things. I have so much to learn and I understand how individual each person and buying needs are. Yes I am in America and will ride both (hopefully) the SLR1 and -2 today to see if there's actual value (for me) in the SLR1.

Hey maybe I'll buy the SLR1 and swap that gear into a Surly Ogre in the distant future?

Again thank you for taking your valuable time to help educate me.

ColonelSanders

If I have been of help to you, that is great, as many people have been of great assistance to me in this forum, so it is nice for me to be able to help someone else out.

In Shimano's Mountain Bike range of components, from their low end to their high end goes something like this:

Tourney
Altus
Acera
Alivio
Deore
SLX
XT
XTR

Now whilst the products get "better" as one works their way up the Shimano range, one of the ways a product is "better", is often because it is simply lighter and that appeals to the Weight Weenies.

That doesn't mean there isn't better engineering involved, but for some of the products like Cranks, the biggest difference between a Deore crank and an XT crank will be weight, as opposed to noticeable performance.

Things get a bit trickier when it comes to derailleurs and shift levers, as it isn't just a weight difference here, but often smoother operation. Still it is often hard to tell the difference between components that are only one rung up the ladder higher, you may need two or three rungs to really appreciate a difference.

Having said that, the SLX is probably the sweet spot in Shimano's range, very close in performance to the XT, which itself is very close in performance to XTR.

XTR seems outrageously priced, considering that XT is available, so when it comes to buying components from Shimano's mountain bike range, I personally won't buy below SLX and will probably just go with XT most times.

SRAM is a bit trickier for me, as I am not as familiar with them, as I am with Shimano and SRAM seems to have even more rungs on their ladder, often making comparisons harder.

Where as once SRAM had X5, X7, X9, X0 etc, they now have lines called GX, S1000, SL-700 etc and it just feels to me like it isn't as clear as the Shimano line up.

LHawes

...

prj71

Carbon seatpost, racks and 2 x 10 gearing is why I would chose the SLR1 over the SLR2.

badger1

Really good post, Colonel. Might I add one comment re. shifters?

The dividing line in Shimano is between SLX and XT: SLX down, shift levers use bushings (and more plastic). XT and XTR: ball bearings. SLX is great, but XT is noticeably better: smoother, lighter effort, more durable.

Same applies to SRAM: GX, and X7 down, bushings. X9 up: ball bearings.

It's really not a huge thing, but is something to keep in mind if one tends to keep -- as I do -- stuff for a long time.

ColonelSanders

Thanks for that info.

Personally when I buy components, I will likely always get XT gear anyway, with a possible exception for cranks and cassettes, where I'd be happy to go with SLX if the price is right, but obviously I don't want to mislead anyone about the differences in gear levers, which I obviously did.

ColonelSanders

That is fair enough too.

When I bought my SLR 2, the store had discounted it by 30%, so it became a real no brainer, but prior to that I was struggling to know which way to go between them.

Because I am a heavy bastard, I actually didn't want the Carbon Seatpost and whilst I do place a value on racks, I wanted the RackTime racks, as they have a great interface built into the rack that easily allows for quick release baskets and trunk bags, whereas the Giant racks are just generic, so no quick release for you.

I am also someone who really likes having a Gear Display Indicator on my gears so that I can easily see what gear I am in, and the Sram shifters on the SLR 1, lack this. Now this doesn't matter to everyone, but it does to me, so when I get around to putting XT shifters on my SLR 2, they will have a Gear Display Indicator on them.

LHawes

I have some cheap shifters on my Giant Cypress and depend on that visual indicator quite a lot. I find this to be a very important feature as well and did not know that about the Sram shifters. May sway my decision.

coominya

I think I'd probably average a gear change every minute or less across my circuit. When I consider that aspect, gears don't seem nearly as important as a good frame/fork combination and having good wheels and tires. I run my tires at the maximum pressure which results in a bumpy ride but boy does it feel good in the corners and aĺlow me to go that much faster.

LHawes

There doesn't seem to be a dedicated thread for the ToughRoad SLR1 so I'll post this link here. Bought the new SLR1 today and am trying not to cross post too much so hope I've got this right.

https://www.bikeforums.net/hybrid-bic...l#post18992464

ColonelSanders

The only thing you did wrong was to not post some pics of your new baby, but this can be corrected.