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Any speed/time comparisons for Road vs Hybrid, specifically Sirrus?

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Any speed/time comparisons for Road vs Hybrid, specifically Sirrus?

Old 03-17-17, 01:37 PM
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castmasterflash
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Any speed/time comparisons for Road vs Hybrid, specifically Sirrus?

So I'm newish to the road cycling after too many MTB injuries. I got a '16 Specialized Sirrus Elite Disc. I knew I'd mostly be doing road runs but the somewhat often cruise with the wife and kids so i didn't want a drop bar.

Now I'm converting some things to be more performance oriented; I changed the saddle to a Specialized Power which is nice, changed out the crankset to a 50/34 Sora (from 48/32) and the rear cassette to a 12-25 from the 11-34 which is great, i love the closer ratios. I put some cork tape on the bars over the ergonomic type grips, and its easier to lean on occassionally on my forearms trying to get through the wind.

So anyways, I'm thinking of lighter wheels and aero clip ons etc and wondering...

has anyone got a good comparison for say a 20mi ride on their road bike compared to their hybrid? I'm wondering how much time or speed i might gain if i just get a roubaix or allez instead of moddifying the sirrus (i understand there are trade offs too).

thanks
Jeff
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Old 03-17-17, 04:28 PM
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I converted my Madone into a flat bar road bike. While I don't do 20 mile rides, for the fitness rides that I do, the difference between average speed is like 1-3 mph for me. So not much difference there. However, it is a lot easier to go faster with a road bike especially if you use the drops. The difference between max speed then can be a lot greater.
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Old 03-22-17, 11:45 AM
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What 1-3mph average?? I don't think I'd expect to get that putting $1500 carbon rims and skinny tires on my bike..! I mean there are trade offs everywhere in modifying a bike and I do appreciate the comfort it offers but I'm working hard on this thing about 100mi a week right now and 1-3mph is a lot at this point. You've got me thinking...
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Old 03-22-17, 06:23 PM
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I regularly blow off the young guys on their racers with my toughroad, the secret is running high tire pressures and having narrow flat bars.
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Old 03-23-17, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by coominya View Post
I regularly blow off the young guys on their racers with my toughroad, the secret is running high tire pressures and having narrow flat bars.

Hmm, I think I may try 100lbs in my 30c tires. I've been toying with the idea of tri-aero bars as well but I keep knee-ing myself in the stomach some when I lean on the bars
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Old 03-24-17, 12:36 PM
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I am 1-1.5 mph faster on my hybrid-converted-to-drop-bar road bike, than my hybrid for rides around 16-20 miles. It's certainly a much bigger difference than component upgrades on the same bike but still isn't huge.
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Old 03-24-17, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by castmasterflash View Post
So I'm newish to the road cycling after too many MTB injuries. I got a '16 Specialized Sirrus Elite Disc. I knew I'd mostly be doing road runs but the somewhat often cruise with the wife and kids so i didn't want a drop bar.

Now I'm converting some things to be more performance oriented; I changed the saddle to a Specialized Power which is nice, changed out the crankset to a 50/34 Sora (from 48/32) and the rear cassette to a 12-25 from the 11-34 which is great, i love the closer ratios. I put some cork tape on the bars over the ergonomic type grips, and its easier to lean on occassionally on my forearms trying to get through the wind.

So anyways, I'm thinking of lighter wheels and aero clip ons etc and wondering...

has anyone got a good comparison for say a 20mi ride on their road bike compared to their hybrid? I'm wondering how much time or speed i might gain if i just get a roubaix or allez instead of moddifying the sirrus (i understand there are trade offs too).

thanks
Jeff
A bit off topic, but IMO, switching from a 48/32 crankset to a 50/34 is a bit of a waste. Plug the numbers into a gear inch calculator and you actually had a bigger big gear of 48 - 11 than you do now with 50 - 12. Switching to a cassette might make some sense if your terrain is mostly flat as you will get more closely spaced gear ratios. But if you ride some long, or steep hills, you might want to go back to a mountain cassette.

Honestly, with all the roadish mods you have put into your Sirrus and even the question you are asking, it sounds like maybe you have buyers remorse that you didn't buy a drop bar road bike.
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Old 03-24-17, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
A bit off topic, but IMO, switching from a 48/32 crankset to a 50/34 is a bit of a waste. Plug the numbers into a gear inch calculator and you actually had a bigger big gear of 48 - 11 than you do now with 50 - 12. Switching to a cassette might make some sense if your terrain is mostly flat as you will get more closely spaced gear ratios. But if you ride some long, or steep hills, you might want to go back to a mountain cassette.

Honestly, with all the roadish mods you have put into your Sirrus and even the question you are asking, it sounds like maybe you have buyers remorse that you didn't buy a drop bar road bike.
So, to further discolse, I actually wanted to get a shorter crank arm and (172.5 to 170) because of knee pain I was having as my meniscus is torn (I actually have zero knee pain now but I also started cold water therapy about the same time) - I wasn't going to a bigger ring because I was out spinning my 48/11... I also like having a matching Sora group more too but that is purely sentimental and not much actual value added. Although now I have an external bearing BB and before when I looked down I could visually watch my crank wobble like the bottom bracket housing was untrue, hmm... I love the close ratios tho, no doubt about it, I'm ecstatic about the crank set and casette combo now (even if a portion of that emotion is purely placebo based).

You're absolutely right tho, I did want to buy another road bike but ultimately I ride with the wife and kids a lot and wanted a flat bar more. I don't have a problem keeping up with and passing road riders... I just want to know how much I could "beat myself" by if I were on a dropped road bike I guess. Yes I'd be in a more aero position but would those gains be offset by me getting sore and fatigued because i'm hunched over more..?

Anyone with actual experience comparing their dropped road bike to their flat road(ish) bike?
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Old 03-24-17, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by themishmosh View Post
I am 1-1.5 mph faster on my hybrid-converted-to-drop-bar road bike, than my hybrid for rides around 16-20 miles. It's certainly a much bigger difference than component upgrades on the same bike but still isn't huge.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!!

So, you'd say 1mph or so faster, purely from using the dropped bar set up and all other components the same??
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Old 03-24-17, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
A bit off topic, but IMO, switching from a 48/32 crankset to a 50/34 is a bit of a waste. Plug the numbers into a gear inch calculator and you actually had a bigger big gear of 48 - 11 than you do now with 50 - 12. Switching to a cassette might make some sense if your terrain is mostly flat as you will get more closely spaced gear ratios. But if you ride some long, or steep hills, you might want to go back to a mountain cassette.
Long hills is why people go to 50/34. Secondly 48-11 vs 50-12 top gear is pretty much irrelevant for a lot of people, and less important than closer gearing for a lot more. In fact, this year I installed the same gearing as OP now has (on a road bike), and I believe that closer gears make sense even with hills and rolling hills like I contend with.

My only issue is that the 34 feels wasted except for steeper hills, but on the other hand that's pretty much the idea behind 50/34 to begin with.

As for the original question, in my belief there will be little change in speed between hybrid and road bike if you set up similar positions with equivalent tires.
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Old 03-24-17, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by castmasterflash View Post
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!!

So, you'd say 1mph or so faster, purely from using the dropped bar set up and all other components the same??
That's what I'm saying.

Lighter components, including rims, etc. I have seen a paltry 0-0.5mph difference, much to the dismay of my wallet. It's fun modifying your bike so I can't say it's a total loss.
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Old 03-25-17, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by themishmosh View Post
I am 1-1.5 mph faster on my hybrid-converted-to-drop-bar road bike, than my hybrid for rides around 16-20 miles. It's certainly a much bigger difference than component upgrades on the same bike but still isn't huge.
In your comparison, are the tyres the same?
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Old 03-25-17, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
In your comparison, are the tyres the same?
I have gone through numerous different tires. They don't make much difference.
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Old 03-25-17, 01:58 PM
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You can easily hit 30mph on flats with a road bike, try that with a hybrid.
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Old 03-26-17, 01:45 AM
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I have two almost identically set rigid fork 26 inch bikes with 1.1/28mm/ road tires and 48 T /kind of hybrids to me/. The difference between them is 1kg and the heavier one has the flat bar positioned 3cm lower . The maximum speed I can hold for a while is 30mph on flats, the 1 kg lighter bike with higher flat bar position is going at max effort around 1,5mph slower than the other bike. My next try will be with a drop bar road handlebar on the heavier bike to see if it go even faster than with the current flat bar.
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Old 03-26-17, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by castmasterflash View Post
Hmm, I think I may try 100lbs in my 30c tires. I've been toying with the idea of tri-aero bars as well but I keep knee-ing myself in the stomach some when I lean on the bars
Before you fall into believing the myth of high pressure, read this:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2010/...-and-pressure/

The conclusion:

After all this testing, we now can say with great certainty that increasing your tire pressure (beyond a certain point) does not make your bike faster on road surfaces that range from very rough to very smooth. In fact, on very rough road surfaces, higher pressures are a lot slower than lower pressures, because the suspension losses are so great. On most surfaces, tire pressure (beyond a certain point) simply doesn’t make a difference in speed.

And also this companion article:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/01/26/the-tire-pressure-revolution/

Which concludes:

It’s this research that has led professional racers to adopt wider tires. They are up to 25 mm now. (Wider ones won’t fit on their bikes!) For the rest of us, there is no reason not to go wider. I now ride 42 mm tires at 3 bar (43 psi), knowing that they roll as fast as a 25 mm tire at 6 bar (85 psi) – or 9 bar (130 psi), for that matter.


For your 30 mm tires, optimum pressure is going to be around 70psi, going above that will just make your ride bumpier, less comfortable and less efficient.

Cheers
TRJB

Last edited by therealjoeblow; 03-26-17 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 03-26-17, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by themishmosh View Post
I am 1-1.5 mph faster on my hybrid-converted-to-drop-bar road bike, than my hybrid for rides around 16-20 miles. It's certainly a much bigger difference than component upgrades on the same bike but still isn't huge.
Most likely 99% related to riding position and lower wind resistance, and 1% related to anything else like tires, weight, other components.

Cheers
TRJB
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Old 03-26-17, 09:17 AM
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I'm 10 minutes faster on my road bike on a 20 mile loop. Trek Domane 4.0 vs. 7.2FX. Which was a bit shocking because I thought the road bike would be a lot faster, maybe I have a built-in speed regulator.
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Old 03-26-17, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by castmasterflash View Post
I'm wondering how much time or speed i might gain if i just get a roubaix or allez instead of moddifying the sirrus (i understand there are trade offs too).

thanks
Jeff
You're thinking of upgrading from a damned good bike that costs $1000 to one that costs somwhere between $2500 and $10000 depending on the specific model, just to gain a tiny bit of speed when you're not riding it with the wife and kids??? Seems kind of ridiculous to me.

Why don't you just change your flat bar to a drop bar and save your money? That's the only thing that's going to make a measurable difference because the achievable speed difference is completely related to riding position and wind resistance, and nothing significantly else.

Or better yet, just enjoy the safety of the more upright riding position on busy public roads and paths where it's pretty dangerous to ride with your head buried down trying to achieve a Strava top 10...

Cheers
TRJB
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Old 03-26-17, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rolandk View Post
I'm 10 minutes faster on my road bike on a 20 mile loop. Trek Domane 4.0 vs. 7.2FX. Which was a bit shocking because I thought the road bike would be a lot faster, maybe I have a built-in speed regulator.
That's a huge difference in speed over 20 miles. From 18 on the 7.2 to over 21 on the Domane for example.

Position is the biggest factor for higher speed on the road, but OP don't discount the effect of tires. A supple tire designed to be fast on smooth pavement can make a considerable difference over a tires you find on hybrids.
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Old 03-26-17, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LiquorLad View Post
You can easily hit 30mph on flats with a road bike, try that with a hybrid.
I think I can hit 30 MPH downhill
The only problem is that they always put stop signs at the bottom of a hill. Totally ruins the fun of riding fast on a hybrid
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Old 03-27-17, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post

As for the original question, in my belief there will be little change in speed between hybrid and road bike if you set up similar positions with equivalent tires.
Pretty much impossible to set up a flat bar bike with similar positions to a road bike. A flat bar doesn't go below the stem, a drop bar does. Wind resistance is most of the equation. Can you explain your statement?
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Old 03-27-17, 11:03 AM
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Two low-cost or no-cost things to consider. I know you said you've tried different tires, but a good tire makes a big difference. I'd go with a 28m at 115 psi. The other thing that might help would be to shorten your handlebar so that your arms are pointed straight ahead (instead of slightly splayed as most stock flat bars do). Just cut off an inch or two from both ends. I assume you're using bike shoes/pedals. You have a nice bike and to get faster maybe pay attention at how you're riding. Many hybrid riders mash more than they should and do not pedal in a fast cadence. You'll notice road bikers' feet move faster. take advantage of your gears to maintain a quick consistent cadence.
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Old 03-27-17, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sail View Post
Pretty much impossible to set up a flat bar bike with similar positions to a road bike. A flat bar doesn't go below the stem, a drop bar does. Wind resistance is most of the equation. Can you explain your statement?
If the top tube and reach is right, it's not an ordeal to get the same position. I think you're probably talking about where your hands are on the drops, but that's not really important to the position, aerodynamically speaking, except that you can probably be more aero with your hands on the hoods, forearms parallel to the ground. That position can be achieved with the flat bar bike.
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Old 03-27-17, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rolandk View Post
I'm 10 minutes faster on my road bike on a 20 mile loop. Trek Domane 4.0 vs. 7.2FX. Which was a bit shocking because I thought the road bike would be a lot faster, maybe I have a built-in speed regulator.
I would consider 10min a substantial difference on a 20mi ride - I do 20mi in about an hr right now...

Originally Posted by therealjoeblow View Post
You're thinking of upgrading from a damned good bike that costs $1000 to one that costs somwhere between $2500 and $10000 depending on the specific model, just to gain a tiny bit of speed when you're not riding it with the wife and kids??? Seems kind of ridiculous to me.

Why don't you just change your flat bar to a drop bar and save your money? That's the only thing that's going to make a measurable difference because the achievable speed difference is completely related to riding position and wind resistance, and nothing significantly else.

Or better yet, just enjoy the safety of the more upright riding position on busy public roads and paths where it's pretty dangerous to ride with your head buried down trying to achieve a Strava top 10...

Cheers
TRJB
well technically I'm not looking to go to a road bike, I made the flat bar decision full well knowing I would rather ride dropped but now that I'm keeping up with and or beating some riders on dropped bikes, I'd like to know what the actual difference in speed is. I'm seeing responses that say riders are getting 1.5-3MPH average better on a dropped bike - I consider that a lot and it would answer the question (to me) of whether getting a road bike is a good idea - I'm interested why nobody has responded to or recommended aero/tri bars. It would certainly be a bit cheaper to clip on some aero bars than slapping on some ram horns and transmission components to accomodate...

Originally Posted by practical View Post
Two low-cost or no-cost things to consider. I know you said you've tried different tires, but a good tire makes a big difference. I'd go with a 28m at 115 psi. The other thing that might help would be to shorten your handlebar so that your arms are pointed straight ahead (instead of slightly splayed as most stock flat bars do). Just cut off an inch or two from both ends. I assume you're using bike shoes/pedals. You have a nice bike and to get faster maybe pay attention at how you're riding. Many hybrid riders mash more than they should and do not pedal in a fast cadence. You'll notice road bikers' feet move faster. take advantage of your gears to maintain a quick consistent cadence.
I've got some pretty smooth roads to try higher pressure on and do intend to.

Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
If the top tube and reach is right, it's not an ordeal to get the same position. I think you're probably talking about where your hands are on the drops, but that's not really important to the position, aerodynamically speaking, except that you can probably be more aero with your hands on the hoods, forearms parallel to the ground. That position can be achieved with the flat bar bike.
does no one recommend aero bars to clip on the bars??
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