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bike for 1000

Old 04-24-17, 01:11 PM
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Dzidzi
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bike for 1000

Hi
As my birthday comes i think about buying a new hybryd bicykle. but of cours i have problem with choosing one so if anybody could help me i would be happy. Budget is 1000$ in local currency, i think about treck DS4 ( i know is a little on a pricy side but it's awesome bike). one of my biggest problem is if i should have suspention or not, i have been riding bike with one, and now i don't know if i could live without one.
anyway i'm 1.82M(5'11.5) and ~70 kilo
Thanks for your help
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Old 04-24-17, 01:23 PM
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I just got a DS 4. Rode it 30 miles this weekend. Its not as fast as my Madone but it was fun.
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Old 04-24-17, 01:50 PM
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Hi! You said "local currency" -- where do you live? Some bike makes and models are not available in certain regions, so that information would probably help get a more targeted response.
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Old 04-24-17, 02:01 PM
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I looked at the DS 4 and it seems to be hardtail MTB sold as "city bike." If it were me, I'd rather go for a cyclocross or gravel bike and leave out the suspension fork entirely. If you also get one with disc brakes, then it should have more flexability with rim and tire choices.
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Old 04-24-17, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
Hi! You said "local currency" -- where do you live? Some bike makes and models are not available in certain regions, so that information would probably help get a more targeted response.
Poland
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Old 04-24-17, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ptempel View Post
I looked at the DS 4 and it seems to be hardtail MTB sold as "city bike." If it were me, I'd rather go for a cyclocross or gravel bike and leave out the suspension fork entirely. If you also get one with disc brakes, then it should have more flexability with rim and tire choices.
Why would you put suspention out ?
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Old 04-24-17, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dzidzi View Post
Why would you put suspention out ?
Especially when you can lock it out if need be on the DS.
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Old 04-24-17, 02:53 PM
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Since you are looking at the Trek DS4, consider the Giant Roam 1 Disc(or Roam 0?) , or a Toughroad SLR1/SLR2 if available in your markets.

I spent some time with a DS3 before making my choice so perhaps Giant has something for you. Comparable for the most part but typically found an upgrade in component quality at similar pricepoints.

That said Trek seemed to offer more than comparable Cannondale Quick CX and Specialized Crosstrail offerings.
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Old 04-25-17, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Esthetic View Post
Since you are looking at the Trek DS4, consider the Giant Roam 1 Disc(or Roam 0?) , or a Toughroad SLR1/SLR2 if available in your markets.

I spent some time with a DS3 before making my choice so perhaps Giant has something for you. Comparable for the most part but typically found an upgrade in component quality at similar pricepoints.

That said Trek seemed to offer more than comparable Cannondale Quick CX and Specialized Crosstrail offerings.
And what was your choice?
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Old 04-25-17, 08:28 AM
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I went with the Giant Roam 1, felt similar in ride to the Dual Sport 3, but better value with what appeared better components. The Specialized Crosstrail Disc was my favorite cosmetically and how it fit.

Once i rode them all, value proposition starting creeping up hard in my decision. So much that justifying the Roam 1 over the Roam 2 was difficult. That's a lot of bike for $570- hydraulic brakes, lockout suspension, Acera F/R derailers vs Tourney/Altus found on comparable to more expensive $660 bikes like the Trek DS2, Crosstrail Disc...

In the Hybrid range of bikes , from the one's i looked at , it was one of the better equipped bikes under $900 at $820, mostly Shimano Deore, 30 speed, shimano crank, etc.. The LBS also offered 3yr tuneup/maintenance, matching the Trek dealer so it was a perk that sealed the deal in the end over the $880 Trek DS3.

I really had no luck getting any of the bikes discounted, 2016 leftover selection was barebone models mostly around these parts. The Specialized dealer would not budge on the $650 Crosstrail Disc, stating it was too popular a bike for them and i didn't see the point in spending more in the Crosstrail Sport ($770) to entertain that thought any longer after seeing what i could get with Giant.

Your budget is different than mine though, i was originally looking at a $650-700 tops purchase with tax and pushed that close to $880 when all said and done.

If originally with a $1,000 budget my eyes would be set for a Specialized Crosstrail Elite from that initial demo of the Crosstrail and Crosstrail Disc. For me at least i feel it offered world class geometry and overall design, big fan of that California design. My next bike will be in the CycloCross category, and that's likely going to come down between Giant and Specialized again.

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Old 04-25-17, 11:44 AM
  #11  
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I'm also a very happy Giant Roam 1 owner. Personally, I think Giant offers the best bang for the buck - if the price vs. a competing brand is the same, then the Giant usually has better components; or if the components are the same, the Giant is usually lower cost (often by a significant margin).

I also think the Roam 1 is the best of the lot, the sweet spot in terms of cost and componentry (vs the 0/2/3), as it has a full Deore drivetrain, which would be considered "lifetime" components for most users who put on up to 1000km per year. It's a *heck-of-a-lot* of bike for $820USD.

Cheers
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Old 04-25-17, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dzidzi View Post
Why would you put suspention out ?
Because the suspension forks are junk on the hybrid lines of bicycles.
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Old 04-25-17, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Because the suspension forks are junk on the hybrid lines of bicycles.
Please, not again...

Cheers
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Old 04-25-17, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by therealjoeblow View Post
Please, not again...


This forum really needs two additional stickies:

1. INFO: Suspension on a Hybrid bike
2. INFO: Buying a Hybrid bike

That would reduce the number of new threads by 50% and the length of some threads by 50%.

Pity I don't know enough to write either.
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Old 04-25-17, 09:31 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by djmcnz View Post


This forum really needs two additional stickies:

1. INFO: Suspension on a Hybrid bike
2. INFO: Buying a Hybrid bike

That would reduce the number of new threads by 50% and the length of some threads by 50%.

Pity I don't know enough to write either.
I agree. If people realized that the 5-1/2 lb anchor on these hybrid bikes is junk then we can quit having these discussions.

These hybrid bikes aren't off road trail bikes like mountain bikes, thus the suspension isn't needed. It adds extra cost and weight to the bike for zero benefit for where the bike is used.

Last edited by prj71; 04-25-17 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 04-25-17, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I agree. If people realized that the 5-1/2 lb anchor on these hybrid bikes is junk then we can quit having these discussions.

These hybrid bikes aren't off road trail bikes like mountain bikes, thus the suspension isn't needed. It adds extra cost and weight to the bike for zero benefit for where the bike is used.
If people quit constantly posting their BS opinions (which are based largely on myth and personal preference) as if they were fact, this forum would be a much better place.

Honestly, it's like arguing why red is better than blue with some people here.

Cheers
TRJB
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Old 04-26-17, 05:26 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
These hybrid bikes aren't off road trail bikes like mountain bikes, thus the suspension isn't needed. It adds extra cost and weight to the bike for zero benefit for where the bike is used.
It's not about "need"; it's about choosing the equipment that provides the desired behavior. Your claim of suspension forks being "all drawbacks with no benefits" is a typical one-sided presentation. Fortunately, most with an open mind can see through these types of statements. I bought a hybrid with a cheap suspension fork (a Suntour NEX), having had no experience with suspension before, and actually pre-biased to probably wanting to replace the fork with a rigid fork later on, because I had been told over and over again that suspension forks offered nothing but weight penalties, and they were, for sure, something I didn't want. Not having had experience with them before, I didn't know that it wasn't so black-and-white in practice.

Having ridden this bike for many miles now, on paved paths and on gravel two-track, and with an open mind, I have come to appreciate what the suspension fork offers to my ride. I understand its benefits and its disadvantages. It is nominally heavier than a similar rigid fork and it does remove some "road feel" from the front stem. On the flip side, it's very comfortable for me, and I've come to prefer it, even on paved paths.

Whether someone prefers a suspension fork or not isn't for any of us to decide. It's a personal choice, much like preferring a hybrid or a mountain bike or a road bike. There isn't a wrong answer, but there is an answer that's best suited for one person or another.

I like walking with a self-propelled mower. Some prefer to push or ride. I like and use a Chromebook. Some use Windows or Apple or Linux. I like and drive a pickup truck. Some prefer sedans or SUVs or minivans. I like and ride a suspension fork on my hybrid. Some prefer rigid. Each of these choices (mowers, computers, cars, and bikes) has pros and cons, and people of good will and open mind can discuss pros and cons openly and honestly, even if it's not a choice that they personally prefer.

Cheers, all.
Jason
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Old 04-26-17, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by therealjoeblow View Post
If people quit constantly posting their BS opinions (which are based largely on myth and personal preference) as if they were fact, this forum would be a much better place.
Cheap suspension on hybrid bikes:

1.) More often than not, they lack a lock-out making any hill climbing more difficult. You lose power every time the suspension compresses when you pedal.

2) It adds weight to the bike. Cheap suspension forks are 4-5 lbs

3.) It can't be adjusted for rider weight.

4.) They don't offer any real dampening. It just the friction-fit of the plastic part which then wears out and the suspension starts to pogo. Good forks have fluid dampening.

5.) The cheap suspension fork on the hybrid bikes is more expensive than a rigid one, so the bike manufacturer has to save money on other parts....gears, hubs, wheels, tires etc to get the bike in the price range for the average consumer...and this trade off isn't worth the zero benefit suspension fork you get. A fork worth using is going to start off around the $400 price range...But then this would push the price of a hybrid bike up beyond what most people are willing to pay.

Those are facts. Not opinions.
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Old 04-26-17, 11:57 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
this trade off isn't worth the zero benefit suspension fork you get...
You were working mostly with facts until you got to this point, and you made a judgement call. If the trade-off isn't worth it for you, then that is fine. That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. Cheap suspension forks certainly DO add benefit to the ride for some.

#1, I agree with you on. This is a fact. Whether it's relevant to any one person or not will vary, depending on where they live. For someone who rides mostly flat rail trails, this point may be moot.

#2, I agree with you on. This is a fact. To what degree will vary. I weigh 235 pounds and my loaded Trek is probably over 30 pounds. If my suspension fork adds 2 pounds to my bike, it's a difference of less than 1% in the rolling weight. It's a small penalty, but it is there nonetheless.

#3, I might disagree with you on, depending on what you mean. Many forks (including the one on my Trek) offer preload adjustment. You cannot adjust the rate of dampening, but it does alter preload, which can be helpful when tuning for riders of various weights.

#4, I also disagree with you on, depending on what you mean by "real dampening". They certainly do offer resistance and shock absorption. Sure, a good fluid dampening system would be nice. But I wouldn't say that they don't offer "any real dampening".

#5 is true up until the point you made a judgement call. Suspension forks are more expensive, and there will be a trade-off in components if the bike cost is kept the same. Trek's Verve is a great example. They ditched the suspension fork for 2017 and the RD is now an Alivio instead of an Acera.
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Old 04-26-17, 12:14 PM
  #20  
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We get it @prj71 - in looking at your posts:

1) you are a mountain biker or at least a mountain bike fan
2) you don't like forks on hybrids

...You've made that clear time and time again.

But it's *POINTLESS* and not particularly useful or helpful in the least constantly coming into the hybrid forum over and over and over again and bashing the forks on hybrid bikes because you compare them to high-end MTB forks.

Pointless.

Nobody ever said they were MTB forks, nor that *any* of these bikes are intended to be ridden like MTB's, nor that any of these forks should have to perform like MTB forks.

They are hybrids, intended for riding on (rough) pavements, MUP's, gravel roads, and trails. They are not intended for high-speed hardcore downhill, jumping, dropping, etc.

Given that context, your opinion and bashing of these forks is just plain out of place here, sorry.

In particular, you say more often than not they lack lockout. FALSE. Suntour NCX and NEX are *way* more often-than-not used on the bikes we are talking about here, and they are all lockout equipped.

Also, you say they can't be adjusted for rider weight. FALSE. Again all NCX/NEX forks are preload adjustable.

And you say they don't offer any real dampening. FALSE. I posted these videos 3 or 4 times already on other threads. Please watch them again, and let the facts speak for themselves:


and


As can be clearly seen, these forks provide excellent dampening and performance when used for their intended purpose.

Finally, you say the suspension fork is more expensive than a rigid one, so the manufacturer has to cut costs on other parts if they include one. FALSE. Yes, the bike with the suspension fork in every case that I checked is marginally more expensive than the comparable one with a rigid fork, however, you can get them both (rigid vs suspension) with any range of components you want from Tourney/Altus blends all the way up to Deore/SLX blends. So there is no validity to your statement whatsoever, there is no cost cutting going on, just a whole suite of products at various price-points. A consumer can choose to buy whatever they want at whatever price-point and degree of value they want. I have a bike with a NEX fork and a full Deore drivetrain, and cost wise it was better value than a lot of bikes with rigid forks. You way over generalize this point.

Again, we get it, you don't like suspension forks on hybrids. But what you post ARE just your narrow minded opinions based on your preference for MTB type gear, and NOT facts.

You don't have to keep coming here to needlessly bash them and start arguments.

Whether people like them or not, an buy bikes with them or not, that's personal preference.

They have their place on hybrids, perform very well for their intended use, and offer great value in that context. That's a fact.

Cheers
TRJB
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Old 04-26-17, 12:54 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by therealjoeblow View Post
We get it @prj71 - in looking at your posts:

1) you are a mountain biker or at least a mountain bike fan
Yes. And I also road bike, gravel ride and fat bike in the winter months.

2) you don't like forks on hybrids
I like forks. Just not supension forks on hybrid. Was down that road already with a Specialized Crosstrail and learned first hand how it was a bad idea.

But it's *POINTLESS* and not particularly useful or helpful in the least constantly coming into the hybrid forum over and over and over again and bashing the forks on hybrid bikes because you compare them to high-end MTB forks.

Pointless.
Why is it pointless to point out the short comings of the forks that are put on hybrid bikes?

They are hybrids, intended for riding on (rough) pavements, MUP's, gravel roads, and trails. They are not intended for high-speed hardcore downhill, jumping, dropping, etc.
Exactly. Which is why a suspension fork, and a cheap one at that, isn't worth having on a hybrid.

In particular, you say more often than not they lack lockout. FALSE. Suntour NCX and NEX are *way* more often-than-not used on the bikes we are talking about here, and they are all lockout equipped.
It's about 50/50. If you spend more on a hybrid bike you will get a lockout fork. Example: Specialized Crosstrails priced $550-$830 you get a basic suspension fork. You have to jump to the $1000+ Crosstrail to get the lockout feature. It's the same on most other brands also.

Also, you say they can't be adjusted for rider weight. FALSE. Again all NCX/NEX forks are preload adjustable.
Yeah I guess if you consider compressing a spring with very little noticable difference from the + to - setting. It's not like a good suspension fork that you air up.

And you say they don't offer any real dampening. FALSE. I posted these videos 3 or 4 times already on other threads. Please watch them again, and let the facts speak for themselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJUbCBfvIEk

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0vWfVdW7zw

As can be clearly seen, these forks provide excellent dampening and performance when used for their intended purpose.
I don't think you have ridden a bike with a good suspension fork to notice the difference.

Finally, you say the suspension fork is more expensive than a rigid one, so the manufacturer has to cut costs on other parts if they include one. FALSE. Yes, the bike with the suspension fork in every case that I checked is marginally more expensive than the comparable one with a rigid fork, however, you can get them both (rigid vs suspension) with any range of components you want from Tourney/Altus blends all the way up to Deore/SLX blends. So there is no validity to your statement whatsoever, there is no cost cutting going on, just a whole suite of products at various price-points. A consumer can choose to buy whatever they want at whatever price-point and degree of value they want. I have a bike with a NEX fork and a full Deore drivetrain, and cost wise it was better value than a lot of bikes with rigid forks. You way over generalize this point.
When the suspension fork is added, they cheapen other components on the bike to keep it within a certain price range. Not false at all.

You don't have to keep coming here to needlessly bash them and start arguments.
If you look around, I'm not the first one here to make similar statements.

Whether people like them or not, an buy bikes with them or not, that's personal preference.

They have their place on hybrids, perform very well for their intended use, and offer great value in that context.
It's a matter of educating people that are new and saving them headaches down the road.
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Old 04-26-17, 01:51 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Dzidzi View Post
Poland
You say a budget of around $1000 local currency. Assuming that might mean something like around 3599 zl (= around 930 U.S.), you might want to look at this: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/pl/roam-0-disc

Air fork w/fully hydraulic damping; good wheels; excellent frame and components. Excellent bike; sadly, this model is not available in the U.S. though it is here in Canada.

Now, I'm assuming you ride/tend to ride both on-road and off. If so, you might want to do a comparison of the above with something like this (same price point in Poland): https://www.giant-bicycles.com/pl/toughroad-slr-2

Ride both, and others, and see what you think; work out what you prefer, and ignore those on here who purport to tell you what you should prefer.
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Old 04-26-17, 01:57 PM
  #23  
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The budget suspension fork arguments over what is essentially 3-5 lbs on a 30lb package seem a billy silly.

The whole bike is 6.x% of my body weight. I have no trouble pedaling the thing, i swear . I strong like Bull

Then there's the lack of a lockout that seems to always come up...which every bike in the Hybrid segment pretty much offers nowadays.

Then there's the price of the fork: SR Suntour NEX HLO is $90. Replacing a perfectly functioning one with a $130-$150 lightweight fork....okay maybe something to entertain down the road when bored and it actually seizes to function properly, but its still cheaper to replace. Not to mention the suspension on my other bike is 16 yrs old...and its a bigger POS, but still works.

I didn't choose this style of bike aiming for a crotch rocket road bike for pavement, otherwise wouldn't have chosen an upright position geometry if speed was all i cared for. I also chose not to get a 40lb'r full suspension downhill MTB.

Mind you, i have no issue with those that like a stiff, lighter fork. To each his own placebo, i say. At the end of the day riding any bike is about technique and being happy with your tool

The fact that these bikes feel more more nimble and quick than a heavier MTB on the road, can absorb some rough terrain while remaining comfortable away from smooth pavement...are the attributes i was looking for. I wasn't interested in an extreme in either end, but a bike that can comfortably tackle both well. I feel the suspension definitely helps my hands , wrists and shoulders with the mixed surfaces i like to ride . Without those i cant make a living, its nice they don't pay a price for me liking to mess around on a bike.

Last edited by Esthetic; 04-26-17 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 04-26-17, 05:08 PM
  #24  
therealjoeblow
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post

It's about 50/50. If you spend more on a hybrid bike you will get a lockout fork. Example: Specialized Crosstrails priced $550-$830 you get a basic suspension fork. You have to jump to the $1000+ Crosstrail to get the lockout feature. It's the same on most other brands also.
You don't even know what you are talking about... from the Specialized site for the basic $550 model:

"The key to hitting your fitness goals is to mix things up a bit. That's why our Crosstrail comes equipped with a custom suspension fork with a lockout feature for fast and efficient use over any surface. To build on this blend of comfort and speed, the frame is built from lightweight A1 Premium aluminum tubing with a geometry"

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...sstrail/106295

You lose more and more credibility the more you post.

I give up, it's not worth the time to debate things with someone who can't even bother to research whether the crap they post is true or not.

Cheers
TRJB
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Old 04-26-17, 06:46 PM
  #25  
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Yep, even the 2016 leftover base Spesh Crosstrail I shopped at $490 had a lockout.

Last edited by Esthetic; 04-26-17 at 06:50 PM.
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