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Cannondale Quick 3 vs 4 (Deore vs Sora)

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Cannondale Quick 3 vs 4 (Deore vs Sora)

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Old 05-10-18, 12:18 PM
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wombat_alex
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Question Cannondale Quick 3 vs 4 (Deore vs Sora)

Hello,

I'm not sure which sub-forum this post suits better: Mechanics or Hybrids. Since I'm essentially choosing between these 2 bikes, I thought I'd post it here.

Could someone please help me understand the essential differences in the drivetrain of both bikes? I see that Quick 3 comes with full Sora groupset while Quick 4 has Altus FD, Deore RD, and Sunrace cogs.
I don't see myself using FD at all, leaving the main concern being the responsiveness of RD. I can't compare them directly on Shimano site because Sora sits in the "Road" group while Deore in "MTB".

Any help appreciated.

Thanks!

P.S. I just found out I can't post links until I send 10 messages. These are 2018 Cannondale bikes and are on their website.

Last edited by wombat_alex; 05-10-18 at 12:19 PM. Reason: paraphrase
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Old 05-10-18, 01:38 PM
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Hi. Sora is an entry level road groupset (above only Claris in the hierarchy) while Deore is a mid-level mountain groupset. Having said that, I think the on-bike performance will be similar. Based on the Cannondale website graphics, neither derailer is of Shimano's newer Shadow design, so both will likely function nearly the same.

Sunrace vs. Shimano cassette is probably a wash -- both of them make good stuff. The 2x on the Quick 3 vs. the 3x on the Quick 4 is probably more of a differentiator. The brakes are also different -- the Quick 4 using linear pull brakes (often called V brakes) and the Quick 3 using Tektro hydraulic disc brakes.
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Old 05-10-18, 04:37 PM
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Thanks for the response. So, basically, you're saying that the only meaningful difference between the two is disc brakes on the Quick 3, correct?
(48t or 50t on FD isn't a significant distinction)

Given I have no prior experience with disc brakes and the ones on the Quick 3 are different, read cheaper, from disc brakes on other upper models (Quick 1 & 2), how different do you think M-285 are from V-brakes in terms of performance?
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Old 05-10-18, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
Given I have no prior experience with disc brakes and the ones on the Quick 3 are different, read cheaper, from disc brakes on other upper models (Quick 1 & 2), how different do you think M-285 are from V-brakes in terms of performance?
You get more power out of hydraulic brakes with less force required on the levers. If your riding is primarily in the dry and/or without a lot of hills, you probably won't get as much performance benefit out of discs as someone who rides in wet or muddy or snowy conditions; disc brakes tend to stay drier and tend to work much better in these conditions. Overall, though, disc brakes will out-perform rim brakes and, for the relatively small difference in price in the two bikes, I'd probably spring for the model with discs.
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Old 05-13-18, 12:58 PM
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If you don't need the expanded gear range of the triple, the hydraulic brakes on the Quick 3 will have considerably better modulation. V-brakes don't lack for power, you'll always be able to stop (even in the rain), and they're light and simple. But their performance consistency depends heavily on the cleanliness and true of the rim.
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Old 05-15-18, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for your input!

Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
Overall, though, disc brakes will out-perform rim brakes and, for the relatively small difference in price in the two bikes, I'd probably spring for the model with discs.
I thought I'd want to ride the Quick 3 to decide, too.

Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
If you don't need the expanded gear range of the triple, the hydraulic brakes on the Quick 3 will have considerably better modulation. V-brakes don't lack for power, you'll always be able to stop (even in the rain), and they're light and simple.
No, I don't want the expanded gear range and I've learned now what brakes modulation is

Now I wish they made bikes in the same color because I like that bright green of Q4. Quick 2 is in nice blue w/disc brakes but the crank is only 38t. I'm thinking that's too low for the front and wondering why all other models have better front crank numbers.
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Old 05-16-18, 07:03 AM
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I recently purchased a 2017 Quick Disc 3 that had only been ridden a few miles/couple weeks. Owner suffered a neck injury (unrelated to the bike) and let it collect dust the past year. I saw his CL ad and purchased for $480. To me, this is like buying a Lexus coming from entry level Iron Horse and Fuji bikes. I realize the QD3 has entry level components as well, but to me the bike just seems like higher quality than my previous ones. So far I've enjoyed it. The hydraulic brakes are nice and the gears shift very smoothly. Although the vbrakes on my previous rides felt nice, too, after some tuning. I upgraded my Iron Horse to Deore for the FD and RD and that felt so nice. The Sora so far has felt that way.

Looking fwd to the ownership for hopefully many years.
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Old 05-16-18, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
Thanks for your input!



I thought I'd want to ride the Quick 3 to decide, too.



No, I don't want the expanded gear range and I've learned now what brakes modulation is

Now I wish they made bikes in the same color because I like that bright green of Q4. Quick 2 is in nice blue w/disc brakes but the crank is only 38t. I'm thinking that's too low for the front and wondering why all other models have better front crank numbers.
Actually, the main advantage of the triple is not an expanded gear range, but rather, the 38 tooth middle chainring. On a hybrid, you will likely be using the middle chainring 80% of the time, if you ride at a cadence of 80 to 90 rpm, at a speed of 10 to 18 mph. The problem with the 2 x 9 gearing is, the 50 tooth is way too big and the 34 tooth is a bit too small for just tooling around town at a moderate pace.

As for the color, that is subjective. Personally, I hate that lime green color for a bike. While I do own a lime green jersey to be seen, I wouldn't want to have a bike in that color. That said, I am not crazy about that dark grey on the Quick 3 either, but if I had a choice, I would go for dark grey over hi viz green.

BTW, are you paying full retail, or is the vendor offering you a discount? I say this because the Giant Escape 1 disc offers hydraulic disc brakes and a 3 x 9 gearing (though with a slightly lower spec Alivio rear derailleur for $695). Obviously go with what speaks to you as $100 or $200 extra spent now will be forgotten in years to come when you are still enjoying your bike, but sometimes, a little knowledge of competing products is a good thing.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
Actually, the main advantage of the triple is not an expanded gear range, but rather, the 38 tooth middle chainring. On a hybrid, you will likely be using the middle chainring 80% of the time, if you ride at a cadence of 80 to 90 rpm, at a speed of 10 to 18 mph. The problem with the 2 x 9 gearing is, the 50 tooth is way too big and the 34 tooth is a bit too small for just tooling around town at a moderate pace.
I do like my 39t middle ring on my triple, and yeah, on that most of the time. The big ring is 50t, and I use that occasionally. But the granny gear rarely gets used. To me 50/39 would be a great combo, if it existed.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
I do like my 39t middle ring on my triple, and yeah, on that most of the time. The big ring is 50t, and I use that occasionally. But the granny gear rarely gets used. To me 50/39 would be a great combo, if it existed.
It does, sort of.. The standard road double is 52 - 39. The problem with this is, for a hybrid rider, you really don't need a big chainring at all. Frankly, the triple is more sensible than a compact double or a standard double. Alternately, a 1 x 9 would also be fine, with a 38 or 39 tooth single chainring. Or an ultra compact, with a 44 tooth big ring, and a 30 or even 28 tooth small ring.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:35 AM
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I've got a standard double of 53/39, and I do occasionally use the 53, but it's too tall to be useful most of the time.

I've got a 46/36 with a 11-32 on my cx, which for my riding is too low, so swapping out the cassette for a 12-25 was perfect.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
I've got a standard double of 53/39, and I do occasionally use the 53, but it's too tall to be useful most of the time.

I've got a 46/36 with a 11-32 on my cx, which for my riding is too low, so swapping out the cassette for a 12-25 was perfect.
The smallest cog on your 11 - 32 is taller than the smallest cog on the 12 - 25.
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Old 05-16-18, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
The smallest cog on your 11 - 32 is taller than the smallest cog on the 12 - 25.
I mis-wrote. I meant to say the the 32 was too low. Actually, I rarely use the 12t on a compact double, but with a 46 chainring it gets used occasionally. Also, it's a nine-sp, and I find that the gears are spaced out too much with such a wide range.
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Old 05-16-18, 10:47 AM
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OP, the main differences between the two are the double vs triple, and hydro disc vs v-brakes, and a price difference of $170. I would take the Quick 3 for the hydraulic brakes alone. I can live with the compact double.
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Old 05-16-18, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
On a hybrid, you will likely be using the middle chainring 80% of the time, if you ride at a cadence of 80 to 90 rpm, at a speed of 10 to 18 mph. The problem with the 2 x 9 gearing is, the 50 tooth is way too big and the 34 tooth is a bit too small for just tooling around town at a moderate pace.
I live in flatland and bike in the city (read traffic lights and stop signs) and average 13-15mph on 12mi commute rides each way and I primarily use the big ring (48t), and only today switched to the middle one (38t) for a very short period of time. Idk what my cadence is though, and I like higher gears because I treat my rides as leg workouts.

Regarding the brakes, only maintenance of hydro discs scares me off a bit. Like I have no idea how to fix bikes, I want to commute and have as few technical issues as possible. Yeah, sounds lazy...
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Old 05-16-18, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
I live in flatland and bike in the city (read traffic lights and stop signs) and average 13-15mph on 12mi commute rides each way and I primarily use the big ring (48t), and only today switched to the middle one (38t) for a very short period of time. Idk what my cadence is though, and I like higher gears because I treat my rides as leg workouts.

Regarding the brakes, only maintenance of hydro discs scares me off a bit. Like I have no idea how to fix bikes, I want to commute and have as few technical issues as possible. Yeah, sounds lazy...
Not to tell you your cadence is too low, but your cadence is probably lower than optimal. Cycling is an aerobic activity. Slow twitch muscles. Cycling isn't weightlifting, and it really shouldn't be treated as such, or you might run into problems eventually. 85 to 90 rpm is what I usually shoot for. If you go on longer rides or if you have to tackle hills, you will come to appreciate riding at a higher cadence.
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Old 05-16-18, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
Not to tell you your cadence is too low, but your cadence is probably lower than optimal. Cycling is an aerobic activity. Slow twitch muscles. Cycling isn't weightlifting, and it really shouldn't be treated as such, or you might run into problems eventually. 85 to 90 rpm is what I usually shoot for. If you go on longer rides or if you have to tackle hills, you will come to appreciate riding at a higher cadence.
I didn't mean I'm in 3x9 all the time, my main ranges are 3x4 - 3x7 with occasional 3x8-3x9. Didn't really measure it but I think I do 80+ rpm.

On the subject, I've ridden the Q4 for a week (24mi roundtrips) and just tried the Q3 for a 5-mile ride. Mixed feelings, but I'm inclined to keep the Q4 and potentially spend the $200 difference on other upgrades, maybe nicer tires. Definitely, don't want to go to Giant Escape 1 Disc for the sake of better brakes at the cost of worse derailleurs.

After chain came off (a few hrs ago on a way back home, and it took me a few mins to realize how to place it back) I'm setting up an additional challenge for myself: learn how to work on a bike, thus easier brakes might suit me best.

Last edited by wombat_alex; 05-16-18 at 08:15 PM. Reason: more specifics
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Old 05-17-18, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
I didn't mean I'm in 3x9 all the time, my main ranges are 3x4 - 3x7 with occasional 3x8-3x9. Didn't really measure it but I think I do 80+ rpm.

On the subject, I've ridden the Q4 for a week (24mi roundtrips) and just tried the Q3 for a 5-mile ride. Mixed feelings, but I'm inclined to keep the Q4 and potentially spend the $200 difference on other upgrades, maybe nicer tires. Definitely, on't want to go tdo Giant Escape 1 Disc for the sake of better brakes at the cost of worse derailleurs.

After chain came off (a few hrs ago on a way back home, and it took me a few mins to realize how to place it back) I'm setting up an additional challenge for myself: learn how to work on a bike, thus easier brakes might suit me best.
I know this is nitpicky, but if you are on your big ring, you shouldn't be on your big cog. You are cross chaining, and this does stress the drivetrain, causing excessive wear. My rule of thump on my 9 speed triple is, on the middle ring, I use cogs 3 through 6. On the big ring, I use cogs 1 through 3. On the small ring, I use cogs 6 through 9. Keeps a straight chainline, and keeps me efficient.

As for your notion that you would rather spend your money on better rear derailleur than on better brakes, I would strongly disagree. Now, V brakes are just fine, and I wouldn't switch bikes just to get hydraulic discs. But if I were comparing two products, the performance difference between current Alivio and current Deore is small. Current Alivio is where Deore was just a few years ago, and on a hybrid, it is probably good for at least a decade of moderate to hard use.. Most of the difference in shift quality is in the shifters, in any event. Moreover, if you want to upgrade a derailleur, it is a simple and relatively cheap upgrade. (about $30 to $40 online, and you might be able to do the work yourself, or pay a competent mechanic a small fee to install it.) On the other hand, if you want to upgrade from V brakes to hydraulic discs, it is usually impossible, and if not impossible, so expensive that it usually makes sense just to switch bikes. So something to consider.

I am not saying you should buy the Giant. We get a little emotional about bikes, and one bike may well speak to you more than another. But I wouldn't get too attached to a rear derailleur, any more than I would get attached to, say, a screwdriver or a hammer. It is a tool, and as long as it does what it was designed to do, there really is no need for a fancier or more expensive screwdriver.
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Old 05-17-18, 09:56 AM
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@MRT2 How difficult is it to replace chainrings, in this case? I definitely couldn't cope with the 50/34 pair, 2x9 I was spinning like a hamster barely moving.
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Old 05-17-18, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
@MRT2 How difficult is it to replace chainrings, in this case? I definitely couldn't cope with the 50/34 pair, 2x9 I was spinning like a hamster barely moving.
It depends. You might be able to change out the 34 for a 36, unless there is something proprietary about the crankset.

But I think you are looking at things from the wrong perspective. The problem isn't the 34 tooth, but the big chainring which is too big. The small chainring is a bailout gear for going up hills. The big chainring is for riding on flats. The problem is, IMO, on hybrids at least, 50 tooth is too big, especially when paired with an 11 - 32 cassette. you basically can;t use the 3 biggeste gears most of the time. Better to consider switching out the 50 tooth for a 44 or 46 tooth big ring, if possible.
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Old 05-17-18, 10:38 AM
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@MRT2 I see what you mean, that sounds logical. Well in this case, in the event of switching to Q3 I'm looking at about $200 price difference for that alone, and a headache of replacing a chainring right away (more time and $).
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Old 05-17-18, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
I know this is nitpicky, but if you are on your big ring, you shouldn't be on your big cog. You are cross chaining, and this does stress the drivetrain, causing excessive wear. My rule of thump on my 9 speed triple is, on the middle ring, I use cogs 3 through 6. On the big ring, I use cogs 1 through 3. On the small ring, I use cogs 6 through 9. Keeps a straight chainline, and keeps me efficient.

I am not saying you should buy the Giant. We get a little emotional about bikes, and one bike may well speak to you more than another. But I wouldn't get too attached to a rear derailleur, any more than I would get attached to, say, a screwdriver or a hammer. It is a tool, and as long as it does what it was designed to do, there really is no need for a fancier or more expensive screwdriver.
Just tried the Giant Escape 1 Disc on a 5-mile ride. Appeared to me as an OK ride but wasn't too appealing to make a switch from Quick 4.
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Old 05-17-18, 07:01 PM
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@MRT2 Then rode another 8.5 miles on my Quick 4 with the strategy you suggested
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Old 05-17-18, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
@MRT2 Then rode another 8.5 miles on my Quick 4 with the strategy you suggested
And, how did it work out?
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Old 05-17-18, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wombat_alex View Post
@MRT2 Then rode another 8.5 miles on my Quick 4 with the strategy you suggested
Unless you are going with something much more expensive, you probably won't notice much of a difference.
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