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Mandatory disk brakes

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Old 08-09-18, 12:01 PM
  #26  
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I have 5 bikes that stop really well with rim brakes. All the bikes are keepers. Three bikes are fix gears with good rear brakes (where discs would work very poorly if at all - Edit: you could make a disc bike with a fix gear work but the easy ability to change cogs and gear ratios wouldn't happen). Front wheels are interchangeable between all. I have The geared bikes have at least two rear wheels each (so I can have different gears and tires mounted). That's a lot to replace if I decided to to discs.

I have zero desire to go to a whole new system that won't make me one second faster, just maybe more predictably slower.

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Old 08-09-18, 12:23 PM
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Mandatory is not the right word, but rim brake bikes are definitely on the decline in all sectors. Probably until they get everyone converted to disc, and the marketers decide to go back to rim brakes because they are lighter.
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Old 08-09-18, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Rim brakes will be a thing of the past. The major players have already begun changing their road bike offerings to disk brakes.

There is nothing complex about them and the weight is negligible.
FX 3 disc is 1.5 lbs. heavier than the rim FX 3.
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Old 08-09-18, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
... Probably until they get everyone converted to disc, and the marketers decide to go back to rim brakes because they are lighter.
Lighter, simpler and cheaper. Much lower tolerances. Bigger profit margin. The new big deal. Just watch. I'll give the disc love affair another 5 years. Yeah, they'll stick around. But calipers will come back. Just watch.

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Old 08-10-18, 08:36 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I have 5 bikes that stop really well with rim brakes. All the bikes are keepers. Three bikes are fix gears with good rear brakes (where discs would work very poorly if at all - Edit: you could make a disc bike with a fix gear work but the easy ability to change cogs and gear ratios wouldn't happen). Front wheels are interchangeable between all. I have The geared bikes have at least two rear wheels each (so I can have different gears and tires mounted). That's a lot to replace if I decided to to discs.

I have zero desire to go to a whole new system that won't make me one second faster, just maybe more predictably slower.

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It's about stopping power and nothing to do with making you go faster.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pjthomas View Post
FX 3 disc is 1.5 lbs. heavier than the rim FX 3.
Yup. But static weight is different than dynamic weight.

Easily offset with carbon bars, carbon seatpost and a lighter seat. Or even a lighter wheelset.

And if you think that 1.5 lb difference will make a difference in speed...it's the motor...not the bike.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:58 AM
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But disc brakes are faster. Braking is just negative acceleration, so you're negatively accelerating... faster.

I've never seen this as an issue of "converting." There are 4 bikes in my shop-- 2 disc brake and 2 rim brake. We somehow manage to survive.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Yup. But static weight is different than dynamic weight.

Easily offset with carbon bars, carbon seatpost and a lighter seat. Or even a lighter wheelset.

And if you think that 1.5 lb difference will make a difference in speed...it's the motor...not the bike.
Yup. Or you could just spend less money for the lighter rim brake bike and invest that difference on those light bars, seatpost and seat and have a bike 3 pounds lighter. And yes, it is still just the motor. But the placebo effect has been documented many times over. And 3 pound is a placebo I could live with.

But. as I said above, the marketers probably won't be on to this for about another 5 years.

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Old 08-10-18, 09:32 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Yup. But static weight is different than dynamic weight.

Easily offset with carbon bars, carbon seatpost and a lighter seat. Or even a lighter wheelset.

And if you think that 1.5 lb difference will make a difference in speed...it's the motor...not the bike.
The FX 3 disc costs $120 more and the offsets you suggest are not free. Also the non disk FX 3 can be lightened the same way also so it's still 1.5 lbs. That's 1.5 lbs you have to pull up a hill regardless of your motor. It's also another 1.5 lbs you have to lift onto a car rack or carry up stairs to an apartment. If you don't need the benefit why bother, especially if it's mechanical disc brakes that may not function better and was only added to check off a marketing bullet list item. That's whats nice about the FX3, you can choose, and as the orginal poster noted, that choice is starting to disappear.
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Old 08-10-18, 11:58 AM
  #35  
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I'm happy with my rim brakes, but I bought my Colnago basically knowing it's sort of an antique already or a modern classic if you will, what with its rim brakes, dropouts, and max 25mm tire clearance (not to mention 5800 with the release of 7000 happening right now). I wanted a good, solid road bike. My hybrid has rim brakes (V-brakes, which are garbage) and drop-outs as well.

But let's be real, next time around for either bike it'll be discs and thru-axles, and I'm ok with that. I'm sure discs have their own adjustment/alignment problems, etc., but rim brakes have always sort of sucked to really dial in well, especially V-brakes.
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Old 08-10-18, 01:02 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Not difficult at all. I order my replacement pads from Amazon for $10-$15.



So order pads ahead of time before they wear out so you have replacements on hand. It's not that difficult. I have 2 sets of back up pads at all times.



I don't disagree with you, but rim brakes will soon be a thing of the past except for low end bikes from the big box stores. You either lead, follow or fall behind.
Originally Posted by Troul View Post
The demand is changing the inventory for most lbs, the only catch is if your bicycle is not of the higher food chain, then you will be left trying other stores. Although, most bicycles can be 'upgraded' to accept the more readily available configuration. Doing the upgrade* would then make local parts easier to source... as well as give more support from those that will know how to service a frequently used configuration...

From the above being applied; There are other ways to use pads that don't directly swap in, but you'd have to have resources or just creativity & basic bench tooling to resolve the compatibility issue.

This is common with most parts, & not just limited to bicycle parts. Too many times I'd go to a hardware store, home improvement store, automotive store, even a grocery store & experience the "Sorry we don't have that" lol.

Having a brake block crumble in a time of need was not a fun experience. Reason it crumbled is because of it dry rotting. There's a shelf life for most things, & for rubber it is not going to out due the resin. Only battle will be remembering where you last put the pads, but that is not a fault of the brake part, just the person.
Relying on other's to do a basic service is ok to a point, but if given the choice to do it myself or have it possibly done wrong by someone else, no hesitation would exist to just do it myself.
Look, gentlemen, the key issue here, at least for me, is to not complicate things. It's awesome to have the latest and greatest, but it's just as awesome to keep things simple, because simplicity really is at the heart of the joy of cycling. Having a need to stock up on application-specific brake pads when general-purpose brake blocks are available at the nearest shop for a fraction of the cost isn't exactly my idea of joy, and neither is having to "upgrade" a system that has specific requirements so as to have it accept more generally available components when there wasn't anything wrong with the older, tried-and-true system to begin with. And neither should I - or anyone, for that matter - feel the need to conform just because the Campagnolos, Shimanos, and SRAMs of the the world say we should.
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Old 08-10-18, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Mandatory is not the right word
"Compulsory?"

Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Probably until they get everyone converted to disc, and the marketers decide to go back to rim brakes because they are lighter.
Or they find a way to start pushing ceramic disks down our throats because, as you just said, they are lighter still! Then brake-by-wire will probably come along, and then self-uprighting, self-riding bicycles that don't need to be pedaled or steered by the rider...
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Old 08-10-18, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Easily offset with carbon bars, carbon seatpost and a lighter seat. Or even a lighter wheelset.
I.e. even more expenses to offset something that was forced on you in the first place! I'm sorry, but I find this whole proposition entirely ridiculous.
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Old 08-10-18, 01:23 PM
  #39  
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But did you look at that Kestrel flat bar road bike I was saying? Comes with full carbon frame, 105/Ultegra drivetrain and rim brakes? LOL I'm just kidding.

I have a flat bar Madone with Ultegra rim brakes and a Giant Roam with hydraulic disc brakes. I love the bite on the Ultegra rim brakes, but I also love the ease of use and modulation with the hydraulic disc brakes. Both have their pros and cons and both will work with bikes. Just get out and ride folks.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:20 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
Look, gentlemen, the key issue here, at least for me, is to not complicate things. It's awesome to have the latest and greatest, but it's just as awesome to keep things simple, because simplicity really is at the heart of the joy of cycling. Having a need to stock up on application-specific brake pads when general-purpose brake blocks are available at the nearest shop for a fraction of the cost isn't exactly my idea of joy, and neither is having to "upgrade" a system that has specific requirements so as to have it accept more generally available components when there wasn't anything wrong with the older, tried-and-true system to begin with. And neither should I - or anyone, for that matter - feel the need to conform just because the Campagnolos, Shimanos, and SRAMs of the the world say we should.
I think the very same argument was likely had regarding index shifting. Does your bike have index shifting? I bet it does, as do all of mine save for one.

Index shifting was initially met with significant resistance (and still is in some circles). It absolutely complicates things. Shimano shifters aren't compatible with SRAM derailers and SRAM shifters aren't compatible with Campy derailers and, what...Shimano has two different cable pull ratios and shifters for 10 speed? What? Index shifting can be tremendously complicated, and goes against the notion of Keeping It Simple. Who needs a ratcheting shifter? Real men shift with friction, right? Right?

Obviously, I say and ask some of that in jest. The primary difference between index shifting and disc brakes, as I see it, is time. We're only a few years into the widespread adoption of disc brakes on consumer level bikes. But index shifting has been in place on consumer level bikes since the late 1980s, about 30 years ago. Both index shifting and disc brakes complicate the bike, but they also offer benefits to most cyclists.

Obviously, everything is relative. Disc brakes are quickly becoming commonplace and they'll continue to increase in popularity and acceptance of general cyclists. One can "blame" any number of things: evil marketers, race fan boys, the "gotta have it" crowd. In the end, though, those who don't like them and never will are eventually going to have to accept the fact that they'll need to ride older bikes, or buy bikes that can be converted to rim brakes (if your bike has a brake bridge and a fork crown, you can use caliper rim brakes).

Just like those who still prefer to friction shift must do. THEY haven't been able to buy a new bike in decades!
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Old 08-11-18, 04:16 AM
  #41  
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Road cycling is very traditionalist. I can see high end calipers being offered for way longer. Custom builders will always exist in this segment.

Look at mountain bikes. The writing was on the wall with AMP, Diacompe, and Hope in the early 90s. By mid 2000s Vs were relegated to low end bikes where they still remain. Even cantilevers have a niche market still. Suspension frame design and less traditional baggage made the transition rather effortless. There was a year or two of front disc/rear V but its all disc now.

Hybrids have even less tradition than MTBs and the novice buyers are more dazzled by shiny disc brakes than lighter v brakes, even if the cheap discs suck.
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Old 08-12-18, 09:02 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
Look, gentlemen, the key issue here, at least for me, is to not complicate things. It's awesome to have the latest and greatest, but it's just as awesome to keep things simple, because simplicity really is at the heart of the joy of cycling. Having a need to stock up on application-specific brake pads when general-purpose brake blocks are available at the nearest shop for a fraction of the cost isn't exactly my idea of joy, and neither is having to "upgrade" a system that has specific requirements so as to have it accept more generally available components when there wasn't anything wrong with the older, tried-and-true system to begin with. And neither should I - or anyone, for that matter - feel the need to conform just because the Campagnolos, Shimanos, and SRAMs of the the world say we should.
You're over thinking this. Disk brakes aren't complicated.
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