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How crucial is correct size XS vs S, women's?

Old 06-04-11, 01:32 PM
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How crucial is correct size XS vs S, women's?

Hello again friends,

Although we thought we'd all come to a consensus , I phoned today and the friendly BS#2did not order the Cypress ST W in an XS as they said they would; they ordered it in a S. grrrr They ordered the Cypress W with the suspension fork in an XS but I don't want that. I assume they got mixed up as I was almost a sure sale.

Before I make the drive over there and get tempted, out of sheer frustration and impatience, to buy the model I want in the wrong size, how crucial is getting the correct frame size? The BS guy has already told me he thinks I need an XS, and when talking with the Giant rep, he said the XS is for heights from 5'2" to 5'4". I'm a shade under 5'3" so going by that I would definitely need XS. Plus, crazy BS#1 had a Cypress with the suspension fork in a S (?), if I recall correctly, and they said it was too big for me and didn't even suggest I sit on it. I don't think BS#2 will try to sell me something that doesn't fit, but I couldn't vouch that they wouldn't. Older women buying entry level bikes don't seem to be a priority anywhere around here.

The XS is 14" and the S is 16". There are other differences in the specs.

Should I hold out until the cows come home and there is one in my size? Should I even make the 45 minute drive over there? I am not knowledgeable enough to know much from a short test ride even if I'm offered one.

BTW, I definitely don't want the XS one with the suspension fork--it's brown and I'm not gonna love a brown bike for ME, and your many posts have convinced me the suspension fork at this price point will just be a problem for me, riding on pavement with hills. And I don't want to special order the one I need because he said I would have to pay the shipping, plus a restocking fee if I didn't buy it, and I'm not going to do that.

If size affects safety or stability, those are important concerns to me. fall=bad

Thanks for your yea or nay re checking out the wrong size bike.
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Old 06-04-11, 01:36 PM
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How much is the shipping?
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Old 06-04-11, 01:40 PM
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He didn't say.
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Old 06-04-11, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by goagain
hello again friends,

although we thought we'd all come to a consensus , i phoned today and the friendly bs#2did not order the cypress st w in an xs as they said they would; they ordered it in a s. Grrrr they ordered the cypress w with the suspension fork in an xs but i don't want that. I assume they got mixed up as i was almost a sure sale.

Before i make the drive over there and get tempted, out of sheer frustration and impatience, to buy the model i want in the wrong size, how crucial is getting the correct frame size? The bs guy has already told me he thinks i need an xs, and when talking with the giant rep, he said the xs is for heights from 5'2" to 5'4". I'm a shade under 5'3" so going by that i would definitely need xs. Plus, crazy bs#1 had a cypress with the suspension fork in a s (?), if i recall correctly, and they said it was too big for me and didn't even suggest i sit on it. I don't think bs#2 will try to sell me something that doesn't fit, but i couldn't vouch that they wouldn't. Older women buying entry level bikes don't seem to be a priority anywhere around here.

The xs is 14" and the s is 16". There are other differences in the specs.

Should i hold out until the cows come home and there is one in my size? Should i even make the 45 minute drive over there? I am not knowledgeable enough to know much from a short test ride even if i'm offered one.

Btw, i definitely don't want the xs one with the suspension fork--it's brown and i'm not gonna love a brown bike for me, and your many posts have convinced me the suspension fork at this price point will just be a problem for me, riding on pavement with hills. And i don't want to special order the one i need because he said i would have to pay the shipping, plus a restocking fee if i didn't buy it, and i'm not going to do that.

If size affects safety or stability, those are important concerns to me. Fall=bad

thanks for your yea or nay re checking out the wrong size bike.
omg.

Last edited by Talldog; 06-04-11 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 06-04-11, 05:53 PM
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Get the bike you want in the size you need. A bike that is too big will be too uncomfortable to ride.
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Old 06-04-11, 06:15 PM
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It's easier to make a bike with a tad too small of a frame to 'grow' than to 'shrink' one that is a tad too big.

Though you appear to be taking our input to heart, have you actually taken anything for a test ride yet? You might actually like the front suspension.
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Old 06-04-11, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by no1mad
It's easier to make a bike with a tad too small of a frame to 'grow' than to 'shrink' one that is a tad too big.

Though you appear to be taking our input to heart, have you actually taken anything for a test ride yet? You might actually like the front suspension.
Yes! I would test ride the one that you believe fits you with the suspension to first make sure that is in fact the size you need and to see if maybe you do like the front suspension. I find I like riding a hybrid with suspension very much. Don't buy a bike based independently on advise you get on the Internet. You have to ride a few first to know what will work for you personally.
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Old 06-04-11, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mjwithtwins
Yes! I would test ride the one that you believe fits you with the suspension to first make sure that is in fact the size you need and to see if maybe you do like the front suspension. I find I like riding a hybrid with suspension very much. Don't buy a bike based independently on advise you get on the Internet. You have to ride a few first to know what will work for you personally.
+1 I would definitely test drive both bikes. I anticipate that the XS bike with the suspension fork may fit a little better, though the size S bike works for 5'3" to 5'7" riders. The suspension fork won't add so much weight to the bike that you notice it while riding.

Go with whatever bike fits and rides best for you. If one of the two bikes the shop has fits the bill, get it. If neither bike will work for you, you will be even more informed as you continue your bike search.
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Old 06-04-11, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mjwithtwins
Yes! I would test ride the one that you believe fits you with the suspension to first make sure that is in fact the size you need and to see if maybe you do like the front suspension. I find I like riding a hybrid with suspension very much. Don't buy a bike based independently on advise you get on the Internet. You have to ride a few first to know what will work for you personally.
As I understand it, she hasn't found a shop that would allow her to even straddle a bike, much less ride one.
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Old 06-04-11, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by qmsdc15
As I understand it, she hasn't found a shop that would allow her to even straddle a bike, much less ride one.
She shopping in an art museum or something? I typically just walk in, grab something that catches my eye, and throw a leg over it. I won't go for a ride without checking first, but they ain't gonna stop me from doing my own standover tests.
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Old 06-04-11, 09:55 PM
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Talldog, you know you love me too. I'm a very fast keyboarder and can't help it.

Thanks, everyone. Qms is correct; no one seems to want me to even sit upon one much less move it from its place. I have to ask if I can straddle the sole bike that is halfway close to the kind I want, and they say, "Yes, but it's too big for you."

I am hoping they will let me try the two they just got in, but a short ride won't tell me much unless they are awful, which I don't anticipate they would be. I don't know enough to recognize proper fit. I know the suspension fork might feel smoother to me, but honestly, even if it does, so many posts have said such a cheap suspension fork isn't very good ($400 bike) and that I don't need it anyway, that now I just don't think I want to go there. And why did they order it in brown?? (It comes in white/green; I have it memorized.) Yes, I know some of you like brown for yourselves and it's cool, but it's just not a color I'd choose for myself. No offense to the autumn colors fans.

I especially needed the posts that advise "Don't buy it if it's too big, a little too small would be better than too big." I am ready for this to be over, it will be an hour and a half drive time to go, and I'm not at all sure they won't push the size S since they already know that's the model I wanted to buy.

Thanks bunches!
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Old 06-04-11, 10:10 PM
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so let me try to get this straight - you have never sat or ridden any of these bikes but you are convinced you don't want a suspension fork or aluminum frame.

You've narrowed it down to a specific bike, in a specific size, in a specific colour. But you won't order the bike you want because you have to pay shipping, but you don't know the cost of the shipping?

You remind me of myself a bit. You've researched and analyzed this so much that you will wind up not doing anything. Seems like you are trying awful hard not to get a bike.

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Old 06-05-11, 06:27 AM
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Paralysis through analysis?

An article on bike fit.

From another article:

"So what does all this mean when it comes to picking a frame size down at your local bike shop? Stems and seat posts come in lots of different configurations. That means you can choose from several different frame sizes and still get the same good fit."

Boiled down to two easy to evaluate criteria;

1) Make sure the bike isn't too big to stand over. 2) Makes sure the bike isn't too small, ie. the saddle can be raised high enough to allow near full extension of your leg at the bottom of the stroke.

Unlike saddle height, handlebar position depends largely on rider preference. The 45º back angle mentioned in the REI fitting guide is a good starting point to finding a performance fit. You will probably be more comfortable sitting somewhat more upright than that. The handlebar position can be fine tuned after purchase. Your preference may change as you become a more experienced rider.
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Old 06-05-11, 12:50 PM
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Thanks for your latest posts!

I do tend to over-analyze, but I am not trying to avoid buying a bike. It was to be my birthday gift, which has come and gone a few weeks ago. So far, until yesterday anyway, there's been nothing for me to buy, according to the BS's. You might be, but I'm not yet comfortable ordering an unknown bike that I will have to pay an additional fee if I decide to not buy it. BS guy didn't seem too keen on doing a special order, either. He suggested waiting until he made another order for the shop, which I've done.

This will probably be the only bike I will ever purchase, so I want to make the best decision I can. I will only be a casual rider and won't be getting a new bike ever, or have special ones for Tuesdays that fall on odd-numbered dates. (JK!!!) I am probably very different from most people who post here. You know much more than I do and that's the only reason I'm here.

The only size S I've been able to locate was, according to the bike shop, "way too tall for you." It was not the model I wanted, but I would have tried it if they had been more agreeable to it. I have not located a bike yet that I could have sat on without assistance, because the saddles are in the sky. The BS's seem to only reluctantly let me straddle one after I ask, and always immediately say, "It's too big for you." I get the idea I would be imposing if I asked for assistance to actually sit on one. These are small BS's in small towns (no BS at all in my town), and they obviously don't have much inventory. So far, all have agreed that I need size XS, but neither shop had ANY bike in size XS and I have only located the "way too tall for you" one in size S.

BS#2 has only just recently gotten in the new bikes in size S and XS--found this out yesterday, and I have not had a chance to drive there to check them out yet. The shops close at 6:00 and I barely get off work in time to dash straight over there before they close, and I've not been able to do that yet. (Why am I explaining all this??)

As for why I have ruled out the suspension fork models (these happen to be the aluminum ones) without being able to try them yet, many posts here and on the other forum (not unanimous, but the majority) have offered various logical explanations that:
a) For my kind of riding, I don't need a suspension fork. I don't intend to ride on any rough surfaces because of safety issues.
b) I am a weak newbie, and these forks are a little less efficient than the rigid ones, especially on hills. My neighborhood is hilly but smooth pavement.
c) At this low-end price point, these forks are very low quality, not serviceable or repairable, not very good.
d) So, why would I want to pay extra for one?
I came to this forum and another forum for information, and I feel like I got it and decided the suspension fork wasn't for me. If the rigid fork bike feels horrible, of course I will reconsider. I don't see this as illogical. I have to base my decisions on something, so I did.

As for the color, I'm not too picky but brown just isn't what I was hoping to buy. (I do think I recall a male poster saying he wasn't loving a champagne colored bike. I thought it was "pretty." )

Those with not much knowledge base re bikes appreciate advice such as to go smaller rather than larger on frame size. My post may seem redundant to those with lots of knowledge, but I don't know things like that, and need to have that knowledge before I go back to the BS. On my last BS visit, I understood that they would be getting in the model I was interested in in size XS, which surprisingly didn't happen. That's what prompted this thread.

And, unlike more dedicated cyclists, I don't plan to or want to change out stems, handlebars, etc. to get a better fit. I want to buy a bike that is good for me as is, and be done with that. I'm a researcher but not a tinkerer.

Sorry if I'm getting on anyone's last nerve with my questions and lack of test-ride opportunities. I'm still claiming "not my fault" re the lack of test rides so far, however. I plan to go back to BS#2 as soon as I can get over there.

I do appreciate all replies, information, and advice. Had I to do it all over again from scratch, I'd probably just have ordered one of the LLBean "bike-shaped-objects" in XS when they were on sale earlier, and been blissfully ignorant of my blunder. A month or so ago I'd never heard of Giant, Trek, or Jamis. But now here I am, past all that for better or worse!
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Old 06-05-11, 01:01 PM
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Okay ... so now that you have super-over-analyzed the possibilities and know everything there is to know ...

1) find an LBS that has bikes in your size (phone around if needed).
2) ask the friendly man behind the counter to help you out in picking one.
3) testride a few bikes.
4) pick the one you like.

Don't think about it too much ... don't analyze too much ... just let yourself go and be zen in the moment ... breathe in ... breathe out ... and simply feel that you like that one bike because it is calling you

For casual riding around town you can hardly go wrong ... make sure the position isn't too forward and sporty but is more relaxed and laid back with the saddle being low enough and the handlebar being high enough.
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Old 06-05-11, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by goagain
Should I even make the 45 minute drive over there?
I don't know where you're from but even in a country as tiny as Belgium I find a 45 minute drive to be reasonable and not really far.
I drove over an hour to get my second hand TT-frame
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Old 06-05-11, 01:39 PM
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"He suggested waiting until he made another order for the shop, which I've done."

"On my last BS visit, I understood that they would be getting in the model I was interested in in size XS, which surprisingly didn't happen."

What happened? Does he deny telling you he would put an XS Cypress on that order?

Test ride the XS Sedona to see if it fits. Primary concerns should be standover height and saddle height. If it fits, ask him if he can produce a green and white XS Cypress W in a timely fashion or if it would be easier for you to order one online. If he wants to charge you shipping to get a product from his supplier to his store, try not to laugh out loud in his face. That's not how retail works, not on regularly stocked items or on special orders.
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Old 06-05-11, 01:57 PM
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@qms: One of the links wouldn't work, I'll try it again, and I read every word of the other one, thanks! I don't know 18.5% of my femur length, but I have been hoping to someday sit upon a bike, put my feet on the pedals, and have the BS guy tell me whether it fits OK or not. Is that asking too much? LOL I enjoy reading all the articles. I think I've read all the Sheldon/Shelton Brown articles.

@Adelaa: No offense and I do appreciate all your helpful replies in my threads, but I meant for my latest post to say:
I phoned the BS yet again yesterday, and they do finally have one S and one XS that just arrived, hence my thread regarding fit and frame size. I plan to visit them again asap but I only found out the new bikes had come in yesterday. They had nothing before that.
I don't live in Belgium but BS#2 is 45 minutes away; I have visited them once. As stated, they close at 6:00 and I barely have time to dash there after work before they close, but I plan to go there again asap, now that they have additional bikes.
On my previous visits to two BS's, I have asked the guys; they had nothing for me. Nothing = no test ride so far.

On my next visit I will probably just buy the size S bike whether it is the optimal fit or not, unless the BS guy says it's "waaay too big for you," which I have heard before from both BS's. (It's kind of difficult, and cocky, to buy something that the salesman is telling you won't work.) Alas, I just don't want the newly-arrived brown suspension fork bike even if it is the only one in "my size." I am probably more weary of this than all of you are.

Feeling a bit discouraged by the whole thing today, but I'll get a bike eventually. Thanks for the posts and your patience, all!
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Old 06-05-11, 02:11 PM
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@qmd again:
You posted again while I was whining in my last reply, and I just saw your latest.

I didn't actually speak with the same BS guy yesterday because he had a customer. The guy who answered the phone told me what had come in, so I didn't ask him about the mixup. I will try to find out when I visit again. Maybe they couldn't get the one I wanted in XS, or maybe he misunderstood. I was an almost sure sale so I can't imagine that he would have intentionally done it.

Thank you for not acting like I'm crazy for not especially wanting to pay shipping, PLUS a restocking fee if for some reason the bike doesn't work for me. I may have to resort to that, but not without trying other things first!

BTW, the model I was hoping for is a bea-u-ti-ful light blue!!! (Cypress ST W) *sigh* Phone guy says they got it in in a size Small, not the expected XS. The XS (suspension model) is brown. (excuse me, "cappucino") Phone guy called it "brown."

Should I resist the temptation to just buy the size S unless the BS guy says it's just "borderline" or something, or should I just pull the trigger and buy something? I'm getting the idea I'm perhaps being too picky and have worn out my welcome here. Thanks!!!

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Old 06-05-11, 02:14 PM
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Try the REI link again. It seems to load slow for me and I got a "could not connect" message one time, but it should work. It's much better for your needs. The Peter White article is very technical. I linked to it because I quoted it, as a sort of foot note. These and more found by searching Google for "bicycle fit". I did not spend a lot of time finding these and I don't know if they are any better or worse than articles you may find doing a similar search.
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Old 06-05-11, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by goagain
Should I resist the temptation to just buy the size S unless the BS guy says it's just "borderline" or something, or should I just pull the trigger and buy something? I'm getting the idea I'm perhaps being too picky and have worn out my welcome here. Thanks!!!
Test ride first. Don't buy until you are sure. The hybrid forum doesn't get much traffic, you're pretty much single-handedly keeping it from becoming completely dormant. Thanks.

We need the blood of clueless newbies to keep us alive.
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Old 06-05-11, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by qmsdc15
Test ride first. Don't buy until you are sure. The hybrid forum doesn't get much traffic, you're pretty much single-handedly keeping it from becoming completely dormant. Thanks.

We need the blood of clueless newbies to keep us alive.
Hahaha! We are the hybrid vampires!
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Old 06-05-11, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by goagain
It's kind of difficult, and cocky, to buy something that the salesman is telling you won't work
If a salesman (and I do mean ANY salesman ever) is telling you that you shouldn't buy his product because of a certain reason ... than you've been very lucky to have encountered one of the world's endangered species of legit, honest salesmen.
Take his advice and cherish it. Let him find a bike that is right for you.
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Old 06-05-11, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AdelaaR
If a salesman (and I do mean ANY salesman ever) is telling you that you shouldn't buy his product because of a certain reason ... than you've been very lucky to have encountered one of the world's endangered species of legit, honest salesmen.
Take his advice and cherish it. Let him find a bike that is right for you.
That's a good point.
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Old 06-05-11, 03:08 PM
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Thanks, you guys! I'm perking back up a little.
Who would have thought I'd be happy to be vampire fodder?
These forums have been so very helpful to me and I thank everyone who has posted.

I did get the REI link to work, thanks. I can relate to the thing about playing the piano on the handlebars. I assume that means the part I hang onto--grips? I'll have the upright handlebars.

Soooo-- If the size small allows the seat height to be OK (slight bend of knee at bottom of pedal stroke), and I can play the piano where I hold onto the handle bars (elbows bent slightly without having to lean back or too far forward), that size would work for me? This bike is a step-through women's style, so the standover height shouldn't be a problem (I guess??) except as an indication of other size problems. I'm not sure I can tell about the plumbline from knee thing, but is that just the forward/back adjustment of the saddle, or the frame size too?

If I recall correctly, on the size S Cypress that crazy BS#1 had in stock and they said was "way too tall for you", the top tube (if it had been horizontal) would have been "way too tall" as they say. I couldn't sit on it so I don't know about the seat height or the reach to the handlebars.

The seat height should be very straightforward and easy to tell whether it's OK or not, but the handlebar reach and especially the plumbline thing seem harder for me to be able to tell. Should I just insist that the bike guy let me sit on the bike and tell me if those are OK? Is it unreasonable to ask him to adjust the seat height? I would say not, but I can't imagine such a level of luxury service LOL at this point.

Also, is it safe to assume that any seat height adjustment the bike allows won't put it too low relative to the handlebars or whatever? I'm not worried about a S not adjusting high enough for me, but I'm not sure how low I would need it to go.

I lack any sort of confidence that I will be able to tell whether to buy the bike in the size S that they have now, or to hold out for an XS. Is there a "dead giveaway" thing to look for? Thanks!!

Last edited by goagain; 06-05-11 at 03:14 PM.
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