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Question for you Pro's ?

Old 02-19-12, 09:29 PM
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Question for you Pro's ?

My question is on the forks, will that Ferrous Hi-TEN Steel, be any stronger than the Aluminum Straight blade on the 2011 model ? And did I get ripped on the Crank, or is that Sr Suntour about the same, the website called for Shimano. Just wondering being both low end, if they were close to the same ? They call for it to be Black on there site, wish the lighting was better, it is really Dark Metallic Blue, with some Purple. Hummm...
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Old 02-19-12, 09:57 PM
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I noticed that the 2012 Insight 2, is down grading on some of there components from the 2011. And they changed the forks to Insight integrated Aero Alloy straight blade, Cro-mo Steerer. ?
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Old 02-19-12, 10:22 PM
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Nice ride!

To answer the question regarding the fork - manufacturers didn't move to aluminum and carbon fiber because they were any stronger than steel - only because they could use lighter material to achieve the same strength characteristics. So the steel fork may not be quite as light as an aluminum one, but the strengths will be about the same.


The specs on this can be a problem. There's usually a disclaimer on the literature that states 'specifications subject to change without notice'. This gives the manufacturer an out if a supplier can't deliver components because they can then use an equivalent from another supplier. And on an electronic age - some of that can cause complications due to incomplete proofreading. Bet you can find at least one site where the description mentions BOTH an aluminum AND a steel fork against the same model, depending how you address it. Possibly same for the crankset.

Something else that happens ocassionally is that components can be downgraded to maintain a price point. One of the risks of dealing online and relying on available information.

The LBS, on the other hand, would both be aware of and/or have on hand the real thing to check out. Have seem examples of that from both DeVinci and Kona last year so you're not alone.

Last edited by Burton; 02-19-12 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 02-19-12, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Burton View Post
Nice ride!

To answer the question regarding the fork - manufacturers didn't move to aluminum and carbon fiber because they were any stronger than steel - only because they could use lighter material to achieve the same strength characteristics. So the steel fork may not be quite as light as an aluminum one, but the strengths will be about the same.


The specs on this can be a problem. There's usually a disclaimer on the literature that states 'specifications subject to change without notice'. This gives the manufacturer an out if a supplier can't delicer components and they can tgen use an equivalent from another supplier.
Guess it would be a down grade all around then, thought maybe they were changing the forks for added strength.
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Old 02-20-12, 04:22 AM
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The fork will be strong enough if that is a concern. It MOST LIKELY would be condidered a down grade.

The problem I have with HI-TEN is-
Just where is the "official" designation showing the %'s of various alloys used?
41XX series of steel are the various chrome moly versions, but what series is HI-TEN?

Apparently it could be a company with that name selling the absolute lowest grade steel??
http://www.hiten-steel.com/product.htm
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Old 02-20-12, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
The fork will be strong enough if that is a concern. It MOST LIKELY would be condidered a down grade.

The problem I have with HI-TEN is-
Just where is the "official" designation showing the %'s of various alloys used?
41XX series of steel are the various chrome moly versions, but what series is HI-TEN?

Apparently it could be a company with that name selling the absolute lowest grade steel??

http://www.hiten-steel.com/product.htm
Interesting ? You could be right, looks like the whole Insight Line is taking a down grade in 2012.
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Old 02-20-12, 07:23 AM
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Found this post on BMX Cycling :
OK, here's the scoop.

Hiten, or hi tensile steel is also known as high carbon steel. It has been used since the beginning of time for bikes and is practically bulletproof. HOWEVER, compared with Chrome Molybdneum steel (cromo or CrMo) it is not as strong if the same amount of material is used.

I don't want to confuse you, but I am sure someone will tell you that CrMo is lighter than hiten. THIS IS NOT TRUE. The reason SOME cromo frames are lighter than hiten is because the material is stronger so less material is needed to maintain strength. Less material=less weight. In reality, hiten and CrMo are the same weight. Most companies that build pro frames, however, maintain the same amount of material for both types of frames and allow the increase in strength.
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28 years in the industry
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Old 02-20-12, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Burton View Post
Nice ride!

To answer the question regarding the fork - manufacturers didn't move to aluminum and carbon fiber because they were any stronger than steel - only because they could use lighter material to achieve the same strength characteristics. So the steel fork may not be quite as light as an aluminum one, but the strengths will be about the same.


The specs on this can be a problem. There's usually a disclaimer on the literature that states 'specifications subject to change without notice'. This gives the manufacturer an out if a supplier can't deliver components because they can then use an equivalent from another supplier. And on an electronic age - some of that can cause complications due to incomplete proofreading. Bet you can find at least one site where the description mentions BOTH an aluminum AND a steel fork against the same model, depending how you address it. Possibly same for the crankset.

Something else that happens ocassionally is that components can be downgraded to maintain a price point. One of the risks of dealing online and relying on available information.

The LBS, on the other hand, would both be aware of and/or have on hand the real thing to check out. Have seem examples of that from both DeVinci and Kona last year so you're not alone.
I bought it at Dicks Sporting Goods in the box, they had one on display. And I did notice the forks, (not the crank) just decided to put it together myself, even Performance Bikes forgot to tighten one of the front brake arms and pads on the Insight 2. I must have OCD when it comes to bike adjustments, took me about 2 1/2 hours to install and tune everything, but you can tell the difference when riding it. Richard

(note) : Did check the rims before leaving the store, that would have been more than I wanted to do. They were super straight though. I know color has no effect on quality, but it is a very nice mixture. Would have looked awesome on the 2011 Insight 2.
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Old 02-20-12, 10:03 AM
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Old 02-20-12, 12:49 PM
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Hi-tensile steel is equivalent in mass, as the chromoly steel. Chromoly steel is much stronger than hi-tensile steel. Therefore, less chromoly steel can be used to construct a bicycle, and have it be just as strong, or perhaps, even stronger, using less steel. Using less steel for bicycle construction, translates into a lighter bicycle overall.

Switching from Sr Suntour to a Shimano crank, I can assure you, is NOT an upgrade!
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Old 02-20-12, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
Hi-tensile steel is equivalent in mass, as the chromoly steel. Chromoly steel is much stronger than hi-tensile steel. Therefore, less chromoly steel can be used to construct a bicycle, and have it be just as strong, or perhaps, even stronger, using less steel. Using less steel for bicycle construction, translates into a lighter bicycle overall.

Switching from Sr Suntour to a Shimano crank, I can assure you, is NOT an upgrade!
Your definitely right on the crank, this was what it listed : Shimano FCM131 w/ chainguard, 28/38/48t , still cheap, but at least you can find it. There is not enough information on the Sr Suntour to even locate it. Does have 170mm stamped on it. (LOL)
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Old 02-20-12, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoxoLive View Post
Found this post on BMX Cycling :
OK, here's the scoop.

Hiten, or hi tensile steel is also known as high carbon steel. It has been used since the beginning of time for bikes and is practically bulletproof. HOWEVER, compared with Chrome Molybdneum steel (cromo or CrMo) it is not as strong if the same amount of material is used.

I don't want to confuse you, but I am sure someone will tell you that CrMo is lighter than hiten. THIS IS NOT TRUE. The reason SOME cromo frames are lighter than hiten is because the material is stronger so less material is needed to maintain strength. Less material=less weight. In reality, hiten and CrMo are the same weight. Most companies that build pro frames, however, maintain the same amount of material for both types of frames and allow the increase in strength.
Source(s):

28 years in the industry
How high of carbon content?
Low carbon steel has a range of carbon content.
Add more carbon and it becomes medium and then high carbon.
Too high of carbon content and it gets brittle.
Heat treatment (which pretty much needs "some" carbon to be effective) can GREATLY alter the properties of the steel.
A high ten steel can be heat treated to give it great tensile strength, but it becomes more brittle as the tensile strength increases.
Brittle is not good on a bicycle.

Thus my point about you not really knowing what you have with Hi-Ten.
The Cr-Mo's have stricter processes/compositions.
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Old 02-20-12, 10:28 PM
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Don't try any bike stunts or jumps and with normal riding you should be fine!

Surely the store or manufacturers warrantee will cover a broken fork.

Last edited by Jimbo47; 02-20-12 at 10:34 PM.
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