Shimano ST-2303, 3x8 compatible.

-Ed

Hey, can anyone tell me if I'll need front and/or rear brake cable hangers for the brake install?

-Ed

what kind of brakes are you installing?

Tektro CR720 cantilevers are being installed in order to accommodate the new drop bar/short-pull brifters. I believe I'll need brake cable hangers since the bike doesn't seem to have the correct brazings/threaded drill outs to mount the y-shaped portion of the brakes.

-Ed

yeah, cantlilevers require a centered cable hanger. Vbrakes, sidepulls, and dualpivots don't.

not sure HOW you can attach the front brake hanger with threadless headsets... in the old days of centerpulls and cantilevers, the front hanger was either drilled into the stem, or mounted in the upper headset stack under the lock ring. the hanger is also the adjustment screw for cantis and centerpulls.

old school drop bar brakes, the cable came straight up out of the top of the brake lever, and looped around in the open air. new style ones, the cable is hidden under the bar tape wrap, and comes out parallel to the bar in the center.

I was able to find a front hanger that mounts through the holes at the top of the fork/base of the steerer and then a rear hanger that loops around the bolt running through the seatpost collar. Hopefully both solutions work.

-Ed

I can't believe no one asked this yet - where are the photos? Ideally documenting every change you make :)

Waiting on all the parts to come in, but I will start as soon as I get a chance with the before photos!

-Ed

Before Pics and Early Stages
 

Okay, as promised, I took some before pics of the bike and its stock setup before I started the major work. The bike starts off mostly stock, except for a set of Wellgo campus-style pedals that I installed so I could use my SPD cleated MTB shoes when I spin:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284108http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284109http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284110http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284111http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284112http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284113

Since the ST-2303 brifters, the handle bar, the stem and the brake lines all came in already, I went ahead and did the basic assembly of the new dashboard:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284114http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284115http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284116

Here's a picture of the stock stem:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284117

A couple of comparison shots between the new dashboard and the stock:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284118http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284119

-Ed

More before pics
 

Here are some closer detail shots of some of the stuff that is being installed.

Detail shot of the labeling on the housings of the compressionless brake cable kit I got from Nashbar:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284120

A couple of detail shots of the handle bar labeling:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284121http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284122

The brakes, not yet opened:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284123

Labeling from the box that the brifters came in:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284124

The bar tape:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284125

-Ed

PS If anyone wants me to reshoot any of the photos, please let me know. Unfortunately I got lazy and just used my iPhone to shoot these instead of my regular camera, but after uploading these and then reviewing, I am seeing that they're terribly blurry. My sincere apologies for the shoddy photography--definitely not my best work!

Moving Along...
 

Look ma, no handle bars! Or saddle! Or brakes! Or cables!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284145http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284146

Tektro CR720 cantilever brake calipers installed, pads aligned. Can't finish the rest of the brake install yet because I didn't yet receive my front or rear brake cable hangers, but they look pretty snazzy so far:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284147http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284148http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284149http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284150http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284151

New handle bar assembly mounted and then after that, it took me a really long time to attach the shifter cables and then get the front and rear deraileurs properly calibrated again, but in the end I finally managed to get it working right:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284152http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284153http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284154http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284155http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284156

After taking the last photos, I noticed the bar was not angle correctly, and I loosened the stem and adjusted that, which I'll show in later pictures. Taking a brief snack break and uploaded the above pics so far. Next step for tonight is wrapping the bars with the Lizard Skin tape, and then I'm stuck until the brake cable hangers come in. Luckily I will be able to use it without the brakes for the purpose of indoor training if I choose to work out before those parts come in.

More likely I'm just going to hit the roads with my Bryant, though!

-Ed

This is looking like a good project, I cant wait to see the completed job.

Handle Bar Tape Complete
 

It's not perfect, but considering this is the first time I've ever applied bar tape, not too shabby if I may say so myself:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284174http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284175http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284176

Now I must wait for the brake cable hangers and then I can complete Phase 1.

I am waiting for the 8-speed freewheel to come in to attempt Phase 2. When I was playing around with the rear deraileur to get it correctly adjusted again, I realized that simply opening up the limiter for the high range allows the derailer to move into that eighth cog region. Now the question is what adjustments need to be done to the rear wheel once I switch out the stock, 7-speed freewheel for the 8-speed one. My understanding is I may need to remove a spacer from the axle and then also have to adjust the wheel dish? I'm not 100% confident that I can handle that step for myself! :eek:

-Ed

They make a clamp on cable hanger to fit under your threadless stem. It comes in both 1" and 1-1/8" sizes. You can see it below. It works better with a bit longer stem. That's a short 50mm 0-degree rise stem, so it's tight quarters but works ok with careful cable routing. Some rise to your stem helps too to allow for a smoother cable angle for less friction.

I have mine mounted onto a Dimension quill stem to threadless converter with a lot of rise to it. This converter has a nice ledge to seat the cable stop, but not necessary as the unit clamps on just fine to a plain 1 or 1-1/8" post.

One maker is "Tioga", and i just bought a few in 1-1/8" size on ebay where the seller has several.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321019859119...84.m1439.l2649

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...ch038small.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...topbyTioga.jpg

I'd consider shortening up those shifter cables up front.



well, get the 7-speed off, and loosely put the 8 speed on, and see if it fits on the bike as-is, clearing the chain stays, etc. if the 8 speed hangs over the locknut on the axle, don't even try and put it on theb bike yet.

IF you need more axle on the freewheel side, then you'll probably need to remove both axle lock nuts and take a spacer washer off the non-drive side and transfer it to the drive side (if the only spacer is too thick, you may need two that are half the thickness, one per side). you'll probably need to move the cones on the axle when you do this so you have more axle to play with on the drive side as with the lock nuts installed, you want the same amount of axle sticking out past the lock nut on both sides... the goal is to make the cassette and hub fit the frame. now, however much you moved the hub towards the nondrive side by doing this, the rim is that far off center between your brakes. 'redishing the wheel' means shortening the drive side spokes and lengthening the non drive side enough to bring the rim back to the center of the brakes, or at least close enough that you can adjust the brake shoes to suit. you do this spoke adjust incrementally, a little at a time. of course, you take the tire, tube, and rim tape off first. loosen all the non-drive spokes 1/4 turn, then tighten all the drive side spokes 1/4 turn, and see what that gets you. repeat if you need more. then retune the wheel to get it as straight as possible and the tension of all the spokes equal. now carefully examine the spoke ends on the inside of the rim, if there are ends sticking up you may want to file them down (with a dremel or a hand file) so you don't get flats from them. now replace the rim tape, reinstall the tire, and adjust your brakes.

last time I needed to do this, I let a shop do it, they charged me like $40 or 50 to recenter the axle and redish the wheel.... this was on a old stumpjumper 26" that I went from a 5 speed to a 7 speed, the original wheel was completely symmetrically spoked, and it had to be dished to fit the additional 2 sprockets on the drive side.

Right, um, yeah so LBS it is!

-Ed

Actually it probably wouldn't be that difficult, the re-dishing process that is, especially since you have the trainer. Bolt it in there, rim only, and then you can see where the rim sits between the frame and also spin the wheel easily to see where you need to adjust things.

the only bike specific tools you'll need for doing what I described above are a 'cone wrench' in the appropriate size (there's 3-4 common sizes of cone nuts, and 2 double ended wrenches cover 99% of everything), a freewheel tool, and a spoke wrench. These tools are quite inexpensive, and very useful. Beyond that, you'll want a metric open end wrench the right size for the lock nuts. the freewheel tool is easiest to use if you have a bench vise (you put the tool in the vise, put the wheel on the tool and turn with the rim).

I would first remove the old freewheel, clean and grease the threads on the hub, and screw on the new freewheel finger tight, then see if the small sprocket is too close to the locknuts, if there's sufficient locknut sticking out, fit it to the bike and see if the sprocket clears the stays. if it does, you're gold, you don't need to do anything. first time you pedal hard you'll tighten the freewheel, no tool required. oh, before you put that new freewheel on, remove any washers between the hub and the old one.

(NDS means non-drive side, DS means drive side... thats left and right as you face the direction the bike travels, if yuo prefer. DS has the freewheel, NDS doesn't, thats simpler :D)

IF the axle needs to be recentered, try and visualize how much the hub needs to move to the NDS side so that the high/small gear will clear the frame , maybe measure this eyeball guestimate with a ruler, THEN remove the new freewheel, and remove both locknuts (cone wrench on the flats of the 'cone', and open end wrench on the locknut...)

now see what washer stack is between the NDS cone and locknut. there's probably a fairly thick 'barrel' washer. and on the DS side, there's probably a thinner washer, see if the difference between these washers is what you need. if it is, great, you can just swap them, otherwise, you'll need to find two washers that add up to the same total as the old ones, and who's difference is the amount you need to move. sounds complicated, but it really isn't, I kind of wish I could draw a picture.

Now, loosen the cone on the NDS a couple turns, tighten the cone on the DS, repeat until the axle itself has moved the distance required, and reassemble the locknuts, using either the swapped washers, or two new ones in the new spacing. on the NDS, put the cone wrench on the cone, and tighten that lock nut with a openend. now, on the DS, finger tighten the cone til the axle spins freely in the hub and there's minimal play, put on the washer, and use the cone wrench and locknut to tighten the lock nut. spin the axle, there should be ZERO play and ZERO binding. loosen lock nut, tweak cone, tighten, til its good. the threaded end sticking out of each locknut should be approximately the same length, but its OK as long as there's between a little bit and the thickness of the bike's dropouts.

NOW install the new freewheel finger tight again and try the bike on the frame to verify the freewheel will work....

now, see if you can adjust the brakes adequately on the new slightly off center rim position. if you can, you're gold. otherwise...

remove the tire and tube, if you haven't already. remove any rim tape or liner band. mount the wheel back on the bike frame (since you dont have a truing stand) and hang or clamp the bike so the wheel can spin freely. find a stool or something so you can sit down while you're working on the wheel, as you'll be there for awhile, you don't want to rush this.

with a small accurate ruler, measure the distance from the seat stay to the braking surface of the rim on each side, write this down. 1/2 the difference of these two readings is how much it needs to move.

put a drop of good penetrating oil (I use Kroil, from my car wrenching, PB Blaster is good too) on each spoke nipple, let it soak in.

start at the hole for the inner tube and loosen every other spoke nipple that goes to the NDS hub flange 1/2 turn, going around the wheel til you come back to the spoke hole. now tighten every nipple that goes to the DS the same 1/2 turn. spin the wheel and verify its still 'true' (neither side to side, nor up and down wobble relative to a pointer held on the seat stay near the rim... spin the wheel, plucking each stroke with your fingertip, listen to the tone, they should all be about the same, any that are out of 'tune' are loose or tight, adjust to balance, and any place the wheel is out of round, you need to barely tweak the spokes just a bit on either side of the error. if its high/low, you adjust both DS and NDS the same way, if its left/right, you loosen one and tighten the other. adjust the spokes closest to the error by 1/8 turn, and the ones on either side of that by less. check and repeat. small adjustments evenly distributed are best.

now measure again... is it centered yet? if not, how much relative to the first measurement? ... if its close but not quite, use 1/4 turn the second time, otherwise use 1/2 turn again.

once the wheel is reasonably centered and true, now inspect the inside fo the rim where the spoke ends are... the DS spokes probably stick up a turn or so. if this is a double wall box rim and the spokes are deeply recessed, then you probably are good as-is. if its a single wall rim, and the spoke nipples are right there, and the sharp ends of the spokes are sticking up, you'll need to file them off. I'd probably use a dremel tool with a fine or medium grinding stone, and take my time so nothing gets hot.

now, reinstall fresh rim tape (velox!), your tube and tire, mount your wheel and go for a ride. the freewheel will tighten a few times when you put some power on it.... I'd put the bike in the SMALLEST gear in front and a relatively small gear in back (not the cross-over smallest, however!) and pump hard up a steep hill, figure a turn or so of tightening.

congratulations, you now know how to true a wheel!! its not much harder to lace one from scratch.

Phase 2 Complete, Phase 1 90% There
 

Upon seeing the above, I realized that perhaps one day down the road I'll be willing to try something of that level, but this time around I decided it best if I let my LBS take care of Phase 2. Since the 8-speed freewheel came in before any of the brake cable hangers, I brought the bike into my LBS yesterday and asked them to swap it in for me and ensure the drivetrain is realigned to suit. He quoted me $35 (I do a lot of business with these guys, probably a bit too much). He said to come back the next day and it will probably be ready since it's a lot slower this time of year.

I went back this afternoon to pick it up, and they ended up charging me only $10 (I guess I REALLY do a lot of business with them. Definitely too much!). They also informed me that shifting will be a bit sluggish since I only used the stock housing, which with these brifters, is really cheap and crappy, which I'm fine with, since this is more a project/loaner bike and on the indoor trainer it won't kill me if shifting is on the sluggish side.

When I arrived home with the bike, found the rear brake hanger in my mailbox, so I went ahead and completed the rear brake install.


Pics of the finished rear brake setup:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284789http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284790http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284791http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284792

Unfortunately, because of the stiffness of the compressionless housing and also the length of the brake hanger, I had to run the y-splitter very close to the wheel & calipers. I realize that this actually affords me very low leverage, so whoever rides this bike, if they plan to brake in the rear, will need to apply A LOT of force--I think of this as a good way to force the rider into the better habit of braking more with the front, where I will make sure to hang the y-splitter much higher so as to get better leverage and hence the ability to achieve more power. One can barely move the lever once the pads make contact right now, especially from the hoods, but this gives me better confidence that the amateur rider on this saddle will be that much less likely to accidentally lock up the rear wheel!


Here are the pics of the 8-speed flywheel installed:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284793http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284794http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284795http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284796http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284797http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284798http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284799

The LBS did a really nice job and the rear derailleur works flawlessly with the new flywheel. Also, the rim/tire remains centered and more importantly as it spins it is dead even, with no left or right waiver, so whoever handled the job at the shop did a great job (almost certainly better than I would have been able to as a first-timer). The front derailleur remains slightly gimpy, but it was like that both before the flywheel swap/after I did the brifter swap and before any of this was done, when it was stock. There is a slight bit of chain rub on the front derailleur when running the absolute tallest gear ratio, but after doing a brief run on the trainer and considering the capabilities of the potential riders on the road for this bike, I see little to no chance of anyone actually attempting to use such a tall gear with this particular whip. The very shortest possible ratio works fine, but it's beyond granny gear...it's like, great-, great-granny gear!

One other random item I noticed: the new flywheel is INCREDIBLY LOUD when freewheeling/coasting. A ninja bike this is not. Might just entice the rider to keep cadence up and buzz/clicking down!

-Ed

nice :speedy:


I note that the sprocket is really close to the fender/rack mount.... so if you ever DO screw something on there, I'd plan on having to file or dremel the end of the bolt to JUST the right length so it doesn't stick out into the teeth and jam the chain.. stainless allen hardware files down real nicely with a medium smooth cut file.

Thanks, noted! I do have a Dremel rotary tool, so with that I can cut down and/or file down a bolt that is too long if I ever see the need to install fenders or rack mount, but I appreciate the observation there. I did notice how incredibly tight that big freewheel is on the bike. I'm surprised they only charged me $10 for the install!

-Ed

it probably didn't need redishing of the wheel, it just fit as-is.


I would definitely be trying to figure out how to raise that rear brake bridge so the cable angles had better leverage on the cantilevers, even if it means the cable sheath has to loop up a bit. having rear brake loops that lean against the seat post was not uncommon in the days of centerpulls.

She's Finished (For Now)!
 

I'll make that the next thing I (try to) do with the bike. In the mean time, I've completed the project, as the final brake cable hanger came in today for the front:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284963http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284964http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284965

And here's the completed project bike!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284966http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284967http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=284968

-Ed

nice! :thumb:

I would shorten up the shifter cables to the bars by an inch or so. you want /just/ enough sheath that it doesn't bind when you turn the bars stop to stop or +/- 90 degrees, whichever comes first (long running pet peeve on bicycle design... I've often thought headsets should have a 'stop' so the bars CANT move much past 90 degrees so you don't bend things like sidepull brakes running into the frames)